Need some help and effort

[PARAGON]

Since day one we've noticed some trucks exhibit more tire rub (in stock form) and some won't rub anywhere even after upgrading to 37" tires. I am running with a theory that some of this tire rub, severe toe in, front end problems, can be tied back to one thing on the truck. It might not mean very much except to those that wheel their trucks pretty hard and I might be way off on a tangent, but it has some merit (in my feeble mind anyway).

At your convenience please get your truck and straighten out the tires, and take a picture of the tie rods where they pass just under the frame. Do this on both sides of the truck. In your post, please also note any rubbing or front driveline/steering issues you might have had.

Here are two examples of the pictures I am going for:

[Big Z]

pass side

[Big Z]

Driver

[PARAGON]

thanks BigZ, following my theory, yours is similar to mine and doesn't exhibit the problem I'm looking for.

[Big Z]

I just had an alignment week before last after installing the tie rods.

[DennisAJC]

Yo Paragon,

Took a picture in the garage but the bulbs have to be replaced and my flash is broken.

If you squint hard enough you can make out the tie rod.

[DennisAJC]

Here ye go.;)

[timgco]

Here ye go.;)

Canasians have small tierods.:D

[KenP]

D, I had look pretty damn hard to see that rod. I can't believe you haven't snapped one yet.:eek: :D

[DennisAJC]

D, I had look pretty damn hard to see that rod. I can't believe you haven't snapped one yet.:eek: :D

Still the original.:cool:

3 tours in Moab and first Stock H2 up Potato Salad......And still the same tie-rods.;) :D





......But I feel my number is up soon.

[KenP]

Still the original.:cool:

3 tours in Moab and first Stock H2 up Potato Salad......And still the same tie-rods.;) :D





......But I feel my number is up soon.I bet your idler and pitman arms are shot. You better check you lower ball joint, too.;)

[PARAGON]

I bet your idler and pitman arms are shot. You better check you lower ball joint, too.;)I think he checks that often enough

[ree]

Here are mine. I started getting a little rubbing on the PS after tightening torsion bars. Not enough to notice from the drivers seat though.
25277
25278

[ree]

...I am running with a theory that some of this tire rub, severe toe in, front end problems, can be tied back to one thing on the truck. ...

So...what is the feeble minded theory?

[ROX]

Passenger side.

[ROX]

Drivers side.

[PARAGON]

Passenger side.Rocks, have Trent take a look at the frame rail just above the PS tie rod.

There's a good chance it shows some old rub marks where the centerlink and tie rod made contact.

[ROX]

Ok. Here's a pic of the passenger side at a different angle. Trent said it has hit the frame before. The DS isn't as bad but has hit before.

edit; the wheels are straight in this pic

[KenP]

Nice new shocks.... Rocks.;)

[ROX]

Nice new shocks.... Rocks.;)Thanks! I like the way they adjust for maximum overloadage of luggage on long trips.:D

Paragon, what theory.?

[PARAGON]

Thanks! I like the way they adjust for maximum overloadage of luggage on long trips.:D

Paragon, what theory.?The verdict is still out on this.

It's not dramatic but the distance from the bottom of the frame rail to the tie rod on some is less than it is on others. My deduction is that there is something that causes the idler arm to move the centerlink to a higher position than "normal". This causes the tie rod to be up closer to the bottom of the frame rail. When forces are applied as in the toe-in situations, the tie rod is actually hitting the frame rail on some rigs.

On mine, it would have to move a total of 4 inches for this to occur, which is, I doubt, not in spec for the vertical movement of the centerlink. But mine DOES NOT, nor does it exhibit the type of toe-in that others do. And I've noticed that some trucks are more prone to toe-in than others.

Before I think most of us just chalked it up to wheeling, but when I saw Phil's truck put into the toe-in position and he was able to hold it there while I looked at the position of the tie rods and centerlink, it's obvious the tie-rod gets past the proper angle and "pushes" on the centerlink causing it to rotate and flex. This due in part to the bends at the end of the centerlink but also, on some trucks because on the PS the Tie rod angle in reference to the CL to the knuckle is more severe.

I've noticed that the bracket that my idler bolts to is not square to the frame part that it is welded to. The top part is actually pushed a little towards the rear compared to the bottom of it. This would position mine so that the idler arm would be lower and hold the centerlink lower.

Phil and I discussed the possibility of the idler arms being differing angles and/or lengths also. But as soon as I get through doing some things to mine and can get to the dealership, I am going to see if I can find one where the tie rod is "up" and try to compare to mind to see where the difference lies and if this has anything to do with anything.

The tie rods were a major and total weak link, the centerlink is another and needs to be changed, but there are situations such as mine (where I rarely lose alignment after wheeling) that makes me wonder if there is not something else that's contributing that would be a simple fix.

Of course, all of this only really shows on trucks that are wheeled fairly hard and regular.

[ROX]

Wow. I know my '03 H2 NEVER went out of alignment in 50k miles. This one goes out driving down the road if I hit a bump or hump where the weight is lifted off the front end. I couldn't figure out why in the world this car would be so much different. I got the dealership to replace an idler arm, but they swear up and down that the pitman is fine. I replaced the centerlink after the last Moab trip and, of course, the tie rods are new.:rolleyes:
Lift the front of your truck, the front wheels droop because the weight is off of them. The centerlink is rotated and the tie rod knuckle flexes too. If the shocks are soft (or in this case, soft on the extension, stiff on the compression) the centerlink will let the wheels droop a LOT farther. This extra extension is one reason I got rid of the Rod Hall racing shocks. I had a brand new loaner H2 and put it up on a rack and the centerlink barely moved. I drove it off road, and the steering wheel didn't bob back and forth going over the bumps. I'm still not sure if the shocks were the cause of some of the alignment problems but with the extra travel it couldn't hurt to take them off and try something else. I put the Ranchos on and went back East and wheeled at Paragon and came home, and the tires aren't showing any signs of wear or feathering after 7000 miles. No pulling left issues like I had before, and the steering wheel is still straight. I've had lots of weird alignment gremlins.
I hope all that makes some sense.:o
Please keep me posted on this would ya?:) If you'd like Trent to measure anything on mine, just let me know.

[ROX]

Mines done that since day 1, with several different types of tire, shocks, tie rods, Pitman/idler arms, etc. It will simply not hold an alignment.

Limiting straps will resolve that problem, I have some here, but just haven't gotten around to putting them on.

Shocks shouldn't effect alignment, but may cause some bump steer especially if one is in better condition or valved differently than the other. You are likely to experience bump steer on an H2 from a bad steering stab, worn/dmaged steering components, or even from a bad toe setting. I replaced the steering stab to a Rancho also. How do I test steering linkage? I took my car in 5 times for alignment in about 4 months, and I made the dealership do it each time. Now they think there's nothing wrong. Instead of getting upset with them, I'm trying to methodically replace and look at one piece at a time, because they won't work on it anymore and insist nothing is wrong with it.

That sounds more like an alignment issue and/or steering issue, than just shocks. Shocks shouldn't change the alignment at all, just the way it handles. I know, but I needed to do something. I'm going crazy.:mad: My car was riding like it was on marshmellows.I think I just need to do like Paragon and measure against a new car. I can even measure against my g'friends that is not wheeled that much.

[ROX]

The easiest way is to jack up just one front wheel and grab it on the sides and see if there is any free play, there shouldn't be. While you are at it, try for free play top to bottom, which would indicate a potential ball joint problem. Most alignment places are pretty good at detecting a problem in the steering, as they can't do an alignment properly if there is any free play. The dealership insists its all tight, and they kept aligning it.

That sounds like soft shocks, great for a comfy ride, within reason anyway, but not bvery good for positive handling.They worked great on washboards at high speed. The tires would skip off the top making for a great ride. Definitely Rally type shocks. Thanks for the advise, I'll check out the steering.