Slantback kit interest?

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

If You would leave A simple note with yes or no.
Then the price range You would pay for the product.
We will have to study to see what it can be done for and see if it fits in the range You guys would pay. Keep in mind We do not do this to make a killin on Our forum Buddies so i know Dragon will keep it to a real number not jacked up. That is how We do business all the time.
So be as realistic as You can what the value of the slantback would be retail to You and We will honestly give you what it can be done for after We investigate.
TAZ

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

If You would leave A simple note with yes or no.
Then the price range You would pay for the product.
We will have to study to see what it can be done for and see if it fits in the range You guys would pay. Keep in mind We do not do this to make a killin on Our forum Buddies so i know Dragon will keep it to a real number not jacked up. That is how We do business all the time.
So be as realistic as You can what the value of the slantback would be retail to You and We will honestly give you what it can be done for after We investigate.
TAZ

[CBR_Raven]

I don't have an SUT but I would vote YES for the slantback and I probably would pay up to $1000 to $2000 depending on the quality and look of it. I'm sure GM will be looking into this also for future SUT model options.

[FreeorDie2]

I'm interested. $1-2K, I guess. Even more, perhaps, but it would depend upon the final design.

[timgco]

For a "real" prive, everyone needs to keep in mind that this would not be a 1K or 2K acc. I think like 3K to 4K is on the cheap side. For a custom cap for a P/U truck you can spend close to that. I would love to see it happen and I think a "real" price could be 3 to 4K painted and shipped if their was enough interest.

[VTSTOMPER]

for 3k to 4k...heck no for me. Less than that yes. Though, I would prefer holding out for one that makes it look like the SUV, that I can remove.

[CONRAD II]

I would be in for b/w $2000 & $3000

[Beastmaster]

Just as a pricing comparison - an aluminum slantback shell for an H1 is 3300 dollars. A Wagonback shell for an H1 is 5k.

So - pricing isn't too farfetched if the H2 SUT shells were in the same price bracket.

[Beastmaster]

I'll disagree. There are some very necessary upgrades for our trucks that on H2's are more expensive than on an H1.

Great case in point. The H2 9000 LB Stealth winch with bumper. Teaka Toys sells it for 2k.

I can get a MileMarker SE12000 winch plus the replacement bumper/mounting kit for about $1500.

[KenP]

FWIW Taz, a canvas back in a squared SUV design was found to be of interest to some members a while back. But it needs to be pretty water tight.

[Beastmaster]

And therein lies the problem. Unless it's sealed six ways from Sunday, it's not going to end up being water tight.

My shell has double seals around the perimeter. Water still gets through, and it's bolted against the body and the fenders for additional tightness.

Any shell that's added will be weather resistant and lockable (in the case of the hard shell) or weather resistant and covered storage (in the case of the Canback).

There's a market for it. Once people realize in a longer term that it's needed, they will buy it. The H2 has the advantage of sheer mass quantity as well - there's a larger potential marketplace out there.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
FWIW Taz, a canvas back in a squared SUV design was found to be of interest to some members a while back. But it needs to be pretty water tight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[VernB]

Beastmaster you should stop washing your H1 so much, we know it doesn't rain in Phoenix. That way it will stop leaking.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

I have not responded but, Beastmster has actually been making the points that i have noticed while I had been begining research on this last few days. There is almost now way to make the cover water tight. I would say impossible but, that does not exsist in My thought procees. But, it can be made weather resistant and lockable. The problem is if it is installed at Our shop or is it shipped to the buyer and He has to do a good enough job to have a water tight fit. I know Our guys well enough that if it was installed by them it would most likely be water tight. Cost would fall more into Dragon's area as He and the shop Boss are skilled in using many materials. It just looks like it would run around the $3000 range or little more. You would have to keep in mind it is not just buying some material and slapping it on the rig. It has to be made a prototype first but depending on the material finally decided on it would be hand made evey time, or molded and just a pour each time, and last it could be made from a light metal that can be farmed out and tooling to stamp it out in as few parts as possile and then assembled. If You price the plain hard flat caps they run upwards of $2500. This kit will be much harder to do. So it would lean into the higher side of most everyone's estimate of $2000 up. If it had to be done in glass then it is still hand made with molds. It would take a major corp. to pick it up and automate it to get it even down to the $2000 range.

TAZ

[06SUT23]

the regular topper for the sut is only $850 and from the dealer its $1600 installed. i would pay around $1500 for a fiberglass slantback (not installed) and around $3000 for a carbon fiber one. that all has to do with the quality of the product.

[Beastmaster]

Links? Is this "topper" an actual shell? Or is it just a tonneau type cover?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 06SUT23:
the regular topper for the sut is only $850 and from the dealer its $1600 installed. i would pay around $1500 for a fiberglass slantback (not installed) and around $3000 for a carbon fiber one. that all has to do with the quality of the product. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Beastmaster]

I should say that I'm interested in it as well. I do have an ulterior motive....

I got a $6000 coupon from the local dealer towards either an Escalade, H2 SUV, or H2 SUT. If a slantback existed for the SUT, I'd get the H2 SUT before the end of the year.

So - that's why I've been involved in this discussion. I'd literally love to have two slantbacks - one on my H1, and the other on an H2. That would be really cool parked side to side.

-Steve

[VTSTOMPER]

Steve,

That would be sweet! A $6000 coupon sounds pretty sick if you ask me! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Beastmaster]

I know. That's why it's definitely getting my curiosity.

Of course, the other half is also lusting after a CTS-V. Actually, I wouldn't mind it either. That thing would haul some serious balls across the pavement.

I had a chance to test drive a CTS-V once. Oh, wow!

So, it's a hard thought. My mom got a similar coupon from the same dealer. Any Caddy model for 5k off, and I could use the coupon also, since it was addressed to my family's corporate business.

So, SUT, or CTS-V. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Beastmaster]

It's because the same arguments and issues have been discussed quite a few years back before.

California Gold actually had higher pricing (and successfully sued AM General for "stealing" the commerical/civilian slantback design) until they sold off enough to pay their tooling costs.

Even then, the cost of their slantback shell is still rather high in my view. And there are only about 100 or so CalGold slantback shells, about 50 aftermarket canvas back ones, and 39 factory slantback ones out of about 10,000 civilian trucks. Not a huge percentage - about 1.5 percent if you exclude the factory slantbacks. 1.8 percent if you include them.

Extrapolate that out to the SUT. Say by 2007, there's 25000 units sold by GM. Your possible sales base is 450 units. If by 2007 you have 50000 SUT's sold by GM, your sales base would be roughly 900 or so.

Now, for a 900 unit tooling run, you're NOT likely to recoup your tooling costs unless you increase your pricing. AND you have to make it not only nice enough to look like a factory job, but also make it easy enough to install for any do-it-yourselfer, as well as not void any warranties.

As for water tight fit - the seal around the shell to body and fender isn't too much of an issue. I could always silicone the area and that would negate any water issues.

The primary issue is the hatchback seal and the seal between the hatch and the tailgate. If the tailgate isn't watertight (and I don't think it is!), you're never going to get a completely waterproof seal.

My hatchback seal has a tongue and groove setup on it. It will block most water and some dust, unless the downpour is so hard that it overflows the groove.

I can take detailed pics of it along with provide a link to how it attaches to an H1. This will help with some thoughts as to how it would link up and how it's created.

Other things - lighting. I had to add a little 8 cell (AA) fluorescent light to the hatch of the slantback so that I can have lighting in the shell area. If there was a way to tap into the H2's wiring structure and integrate lights, that would be great.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ:
I have not responded but, Beastmster has actually been making the points that i have noticed while I had been begining research on this last few days. There is almost now way to make the cover water tight. I would say impossible but, that does not exsist in My thought procees. But, it can be made weather resistant and lockable. The problem is if it is installed at Our shop or is it shipped to the buyer and He has to do a good enough job to have a water tight fit. I know Our guys well enough that if it was installed by them it would most likely be water tight. Cost would fall more into Dragon's area as He and the shop Boss are skilled in using many materials. It just looks like it would run around the $3000 range or little more. You would have to keep in mind it is not just buying some material and slapping it on the rig. It has to be made a prototype first but depending on the material finally decided on it would be hand made evey time, or molded and just a pour each time, and last it could be made from a light metal that can be farmed out and tooling to stamp it out in as few parts as possile and then assembled. If You price the plain hard flat caps they run upwards of $2500. This kit will be much harder to do. So it would lean into the higher side of most everyone's estimate of $2000 up. If it had to be done in glass then it is still hand made with molds. It would take a major corp. to pick it up and automate it to get it even down to the $2000 range.

TAZ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[timgco]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beastmaster:
I should say that I'm interested in it as well. I do have an ulterior motive....

I got a $6000 coupon from the local dealer towards either an Escalade, H2 SUV, or H2 SUT. If a slantback existed for the SUT, I'd get the H2 SUT before the end of the year.

So - that's why I've been involved in this discussion. I'd literally love to have two slantbacks - one on my H1, and the other on an H2. That would be really cool parked side to side.

-Steve </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve, I have a 11K coupon for you for a Desert sand SUT with 14K miles and 15K in acc.s. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

...I guess that would be a 26K coupon? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
61K sticker + 15K acc's. = 76K total - 26K coupon = 50K DEALhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Beastmaster]

Hmmm...a recent article talked about the average addon/accessories are only valued at a median increase of up to 25% above the base vehicle pricing....

Besides, this truck would likely get the RubberDuck treatment and the slantback if it came out. I want to build it up to my specs http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Steve

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Beastmaster
Would You PM Me quite a few Pics of Your H1 setup to prompt ideas.
I really could use allot of H2 SUT Pics as well with allot of good angles and even marked up as to potential problems seen to work around. What could be unforeseen or should I say hidden to me as I have not looked at SUT's. I would not spot something that would require extra special attention for sealing which is what We would try for but, not sure it can be done.
I have not been close to many SUT.
Sut's are not real popular here in AR. Do not get me wrong they sell plenty. But, in an agriculture enviroment the bed is not big enough to do anything with so most go for the SUV for the extra int. room.
If they need beds they get big diesel crew cab dullies. When the first SUT came out I tried to get forum guys to come to Little Rock or at least check it out as i saw and had comformation from a man in the dealer that they had a bunch lined up on the wall but, twice as many in the back for lack of space. They just were not the rig of choice except for those who just have to feel like they are in a truck as in farming you live out of your truck.

But, anyway if I could get pics of H1 and SUT it would help allot. Dealer would not give us problems coming over to measure and be tickled if We could do it he would just sell them and mark them way up. The only Way We may be able to combat Dealer or maintain a presence in that area is We have arrainged for financing on any product We offer on ACC. as well as customizing on any vehicle We carry stuff for which in just Dragons site has over 6000 items and going up as We had the website rebuilt to handle parts. We had a good time at SEMA and picked up most all the suppliers as well as some with some odd items. If We can build them then We can finance it for the buyer. It covers tires, rims, most anything. Anyway We will be adding the companies and the product under there name as We will not take creditwhen We sell a product that came from a vendor. There will be a section of items We build Ourselves and have patent pending on them and will be in there own catogorie. Well moving on.
Oh I wanted to remind the bed covers that you can find for $1000 give or take either direction are produced in mass production and the H2 SUT could not start off like that but get there later. Everyone has to remember to look at this from the angle that at first and maybe the first year they would all be done by hand until the process could be streamlined and made more mechanical. So when you put out numbers this is something to keep in mind as We must talk apples and apples as well as oranges to oranges. I have not seen the top lines selling down below A few K's as i have been calling and checking. But I knew i would not cover every brand or manufacturer out while trying to get estimates on cost retail. If it cannot be done with a profit then it would not be made except for those who would be willing to let us build it for their rig and maybe not any two be alike by adding something personal on the slant cover.

Well I'm sorry, it is late and as usual I have strayed and i do appreciate My forum Buddies for bearing with me and showing me patience. Dragon gets on to Me all the time. I hope I can improve as I try everyday.
Well i hope We can help but, it will take an idea of retail value and cost of Us hiring someone to build them as all Our guys are so busy We have to look to higher someone that has the skill to do it and meet Our quality standard.

Well again thanks for Your patience and get Me H1 and SUT pics close up with comment and mark up so to see the potential hardships.

TAZ

[timgco]

Taz, when you get enough sleep and wake up at about 3:00 this afternoon http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, send me a PM as to what pics you would want. I don't know if my pics would even work since I have the factor cover and the bed rack on, but i can take some pics if ou think they will work for you.

Also, something to consider. The SUT Slantback shell was made with the factory plastic removed from the truck. The marker light base up top was even removed to install this.

[Beastmaster]

Not having access to an SUT (except at the dealer), I hit the GM Media Website - the password restricted area.

I downloaded pictures that specifically hit the tailgate area with the midgate open and closed. I was able to get the full sized ones. You can zoom in quite well.

I've put them on the AZHOG site. You can see them at:
24.248.84.138/hummers/sut
or
24.248.84.139/hummers/sut

There's a couple of things that are fascinating. One is the series of rails on both sides. A good shot of them is pic X05HM_SU026.jpg.

What it looks like it's going to likely be is a 3 piece setup for starters/prototyping.

You've got these plastic pieces that need to be changed.

1) The horizontal piece that center mounted stop light is placed on.
2) The plastic facia under the lights and before the rail piece

What I'd envision would be:
a) Remove the plastic CHMSL (Center High Mounted Stop Light) foundation.
b) Remove the two side pieces between the C Pillar and the rear tracks.
c) Replace the side pieces with what we call (in the slantback world) the sponsons. Those are the triangular pieces. Those would replace the plastic behind the C Pillar and go OVER the fenders (for waterproofing). You then use the existing tracks as mounting points. (If you redo the contrast of this picture, you'll see that the fabricators did the same thing - use the track as a mounting point. X04CC_HM047.jpg)
d) Fit (with weatherproofing) a new horizontal bracket that accomodates both the door and the CHMSL.

The way the shell looks from the GM Media site on the H2H Slantback is similar to my musings.

If you take the two pics I've mentioned above, and put them side by side in some sort of photo viewer, enhance the slantback photo to show detail of the inside, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

-Steve

[Beastmaster]

Ok, I took more detailed closeups of the slantback install.

You can find the pictures here:
http://24.248.84.138/hummers/California_Gold_slantback/...pics/detail_pics.htm (http://24.248.84.138/hummers/California_Gold_slantback/other%20pics/detail_pics.htm)
http://24.248.84.139/hummers/California_Gold_slantback/...pics/detail_pics.htm (http://24.248.84.139/hummers/California_Gold_slantback/other%20pics/detail_pics.htm)

The photos include:
Hatch latch mechanism shots
Hatch lift mount shots
Sponson quarterpanel shots
Inside nutsert mounting shots
Hatch Lock detail shots
Sponson shots
Hatch and sponson groove shots

Hope this helps!
Steve

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Steve thanks for the input. Tim I did not wake up last night Buddy. Unusual for Me if I do it tonight I'll PM You. It really looks like I may have to find someone close by that has an interest in one. Pics are not going to get it done but, it has allowed Me to see the possibility Steve. You have assed the idea and problems quite well. I actually have been planning on a SUT next year when show season starts as the mall Queen will go into hiding except for real nice weather. The chrome on the undeside You just cannot protect so it will be on the best roads that I take it out. So most of the time it will go by trailered unless it is a local and real close but, usually even if it is 45 miles We trailer Dragon Celica and most likely We will own a double hauler by spring as We go to the same shows most times but do have a nice hauler that Dragon owns he got for the Celica. That would leave the 2 hauler for the H2 and one of the other rigs that a shop guy owns and wants to go to.
I have really been thinking about getting an SUT so it may have to wait for that and We will figure out a slant back top. Steve I'm wondering would it need to be designed as a removable? I would think so, that justs adds more problems. I can see why no company has tried it in volume. We would just have to build them on order by hand. then i go back to wieght and like the honey combed cardboard overlayed with carbonfiber for strength and lightness. This will be a long time planning situation and a rig on hand full time to do it. I was planning if things went a certain way i would use the SUT to pull the goose neck 2 rig hauler.
It may be more than My partner and the shop Boss wants to mess with. I just love the challenge so maybe I can do it with their help and guidance. Dragon would stop or take extra time to help a little. He has Dragon jr. to think about in his daily timing. Well if anyone comes up with More ideas or Pics please send them from PM so I can or Yuo can start a photobucket at Yahoo that You can add ideas to Steve and a link to be able to go in and checkin the project. Thanks for Your help Steve and Tim.
Oh Tim on the Pics of the SUT anything following the track of the sut all the way around making a complete circle. Pics of tailgate and it in different positions of opening and closing. Anything Tim that just shows the function for Me to study until i get MY hands on a rig. You will not be able to be to detailed I promise.
Thakd Guys

Rick

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Sorry Alec. I have tried and will keep working on it but, you are right. I would be horrible at writing military tech manuals. Poor kids would be blowing their poor brains out by the time they could get a good start.

Critisism is a good thing when You know it as a fact. Hopefully I can do better. I'll if nothing else just right 2 or 3 sentences and skip a line where it does not blind people when You guys and gals look at it.

TAZ

[aggiehummer...er]

I have good rapport with the higher ups at GM Accessories, and asked them about a slantback piece for the SUT. They said they could never get it down where it'd be anything close to reasonable price-wise. Keep in mind it was GfreakingM who said that, so I don't know if it'll ever happen.

[CLAYDOG]

TAZ, you got mail

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

CLAYDOG
I got PM will be with You soon.

TAZ

[Beastmaster]

I left my camera at home when the Motor Trend Phoenix International Auto Show was here.

The trim pieces in question (the C Pillar ones) are held in with one screw and a bunch of pressure fit tabs. It's got weatherstripping to keep the elements out.

If GM ever got off their ass and updated the site where Body shops go to get the body repair information on the H2, you'd get dimensions of that part.