Ride height adjustment (front lift) PICS ADDED [Archive]

jagular7

08-07-2005, 01:58 AM

One of the biggest things you need to keep in mind with adjusting the torsion bars on a GM product, the bump stops are part of the suspension design. If you look underneath, the lower control arm rests on the bump stops. However, the bump stops are not a solid rubber design. They actually operate to reduce the oscillation of the suspension just like a shock.
Also, a torsion bar is a suspension spring. It's design to twist to provide spring-like action. Vehicle springs are designed to hold the vehicle up. Without getting too involved in design and application, the more you twist, the more it fatigues. Get to a point and it'll break or sag.

MxHonda

08-07-2005, 02:11 PM

Thanks for the info Jagular. On the Colorado forums they talk about an aftermarket "offset key" that helps prevent the increase in torsion stress. I will keep looking and see if I can visually compare when I p/u my H3 on Tuesday.

MxHonda

08-07-2005, 04:10 PM

This must be the "offset key" although most say it is not needed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-hummer-h3-2-lift-le...temZ7991953905QQrdZ1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-hummer-h3-2-lift-leveling-kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33585QQitemZ7991953 905QQrdZ1)

The instuctions are "It takes an 1 1/8" Socket. Take pressure off the torsion bars by jacking up you truck. Put on the emergency brake. Mark the bolt and frame with a chalk mark to keep track of rotations. Each full turn equals around 1/2" lift. I think I turned mine 4 turns and picked up 1 1/2", just enough to level out the truck and equal the clearance on the wheel wells. The next day I took it to the dealership and had it aligned it is free up to 7,500 miles on you new truck. They said it neede very little adjustment."

boulderhummer

08-07-2005, 07:57 PM

hey honda, how difficult is this to do. i am not very good with mechanical stuff. what do you actually do. do those "offset keys" get installed or do they help you raise the truck. do you think its safe as far as damaging the integrity of the suspension or driving capability.
thanks man
bret

boulder lux is expected on the 14th

MxHonda

08-07-2005, 08:39 PM

If you go here and search "torsion lift" you will know as much as I do:

http://www.coloradofans.com/search.php

I will do this next weekend and post details w/pics.

boulderhummer

08-07-2005, 09:08 PM

thanks man

MxHonda

08-10-2005, 09:13 PM

1. I took the floor jack and lifted the front tires off the ground.
2. I marked the bolts for the torsion bars with a red marker to give me an index point.
3. I then took a 1-1/16" socket and gave 5 full turns of the bolt and dropped it off the jack.

The end result...1 1/2" of lift on the front and alot more level appearance. I need to check the headlight aim and toe-in later...

NOTE: No offset keys were needed.

MxHonda

08-10-2005, 09:14 PM

Leveled...Back is only 1" higher than the front now.

timgco

08-11-2005, 01:02 AM

you turned them 5 turns? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

How does it ride now? It has to be very stiff! I think you're the frist owner to do this. Give us an update when you get a chance please.
Thanks,
Tim.

hyperion78

08-11-2005, 01:07 AM

i'll keep my fingers crossed for you and hopefully it doesn't go *pop*

DeLeon

08-11-2005, 01:39 AM

Yeah.. I walso want to know how stiff the ride is now.. when I did this in my old ISUZU trooper the ride was awfull...

Also, what are the offset keys for? What difference would that make?

felsmann

08-11-2005, 02:02 AM

Good job MX.

Adjusting Tbars does not affect ride comfort, unless you give it too much 2+ inches then your upper arms max out and it rides like a wagon. 1-1.5" is the most you should adjust for.

FormerJeeper

08-11-2005, 03:45 AM

I'm interested in how it rides too.
Me thinks it will fit 35s with the offroad suspension with only a little front fender trimming http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-C

H3Lady

08-11-2005, 08:24 AM

which way did you turn it.

MxHonda

08-11-2005, 09:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H3Lady:
which way did you turn it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Righty tighty Lefty loosey... clockwise to lift, counter clockwise to lower.

I will report back tonight on ride quality.

Larry W

08-11-2005, 01:37 PM

can you give us a couple side pics as well... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

boulderhummer

08-11-2005, 08:21 PM

ANYONE KNOW IF YOU SHOULD PURCHASE THE OFF SET KEY IF YOUR GOING TO RAISE THE FRONT AN INCH AND HALF??
THANKS
BRET

felsmann

08-11-2005, 10:14 PM

No need to do such thing.
By the way, make sure you raise the front with a jack under the cross member, not the LCA.

The wheels must hang freely before you adjust the t-bars.

boulderhummer

08-11-2005, 10:23 PM

thanks man

MxHonda

08-11-2005, 10:53 PM

After 100 miles today, 5 turns is too much...I did learn alot about our front suspension though. As jagular mentioned earlier, the bump stops serve a purpose. With 5 turns, the nose dive on braking is pretty noticable until the bump stops are reached. Also, as Felsmann said, the suspension would top out when larger bumps were hit and you could hear the "thunk" when it extended to its limit. The ride on the highway was the same as before the "lift" with little or no affect (NOT including Michigan Highways). On side roads the steering wheel would "float" which shows that an alignment was required.

I backed them back down to 2 full turns and only lost 1/2" of lift, but the bump stops are near normal position now. I will report back tomorrow night.

MxHonda

08-11-2005, 11:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by felsmann:
No need to do such thing.
By the way, make sure you raise the front with a jack under the cross member, not the LCA.

The wheels must hang freely before you adjust the t-bars. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Felsmann, good advice. I used a 4"x4" block of wood about 10" long and a floor jack. I positioned it right between the lower aluminum "H3" skid plate bolts and it lifted both tires evenly off the ground. Be sure to chock the rear tires for safety!

jagular7

08-13-2005, 01:26 AM

How do you measure the difference between front to rear?

I would think you would need a point reference like one right behind the front tire and one in front of the rear tire on the kick panel. Why not just take a level on the kick panel?

SledgeHummer

08-13-2005, 07:49 AM

Hi Guys, I just got my H3 few days back, yesterday I took it for its first test in the Arabian Desert.

Anyway, before my H3, I used to drive (still do) a 2000 Chevy Blazer ZR2 (http://www.zr2.com) in a way the H3 replaces the ZR2 in the GM lineup, it has the same back axle, same front suspension, same shocks, same Gearbox.

Back to the subject, I have fiddled with my ZR2 and know a thing or two about torsion bar lifting. First of all, lifting the torsion bar will put tremendous stress on your ball joints, they will wear out before their due time. 2 inches is the MAX you can lift, you can even lift it more than 2 inches but the ball joints will fail within days. 2 inches will make'em fail within 3-4 months depending on your driving habits. 1 inch torsion bar lift is relatively safe.

To rememdy this problem, there is something called "Torsion Bar re-indexer" available for Blazers and Tahoes and all IFS-torsion bar trucks (not sure if it is avaialable yet for H3s) you can find them on any website like Summit Racing (http://www.summit.com) which basically is an adapter that you install at the body-end of the torsion bar (not the suspension end) and then fix your OEM torsion bar on that adapter. it's like "extending" your torsion bar. THEN you can lift your truck by 2 inches and more without affecting your ball joint performance. But I guess we'll have to wait until someone comes up with "re-indexers" for the H3.

Just my 2 cents http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DuneH3

MxHonda

08-13-2005, 11:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
How do you measure the difference between front to rear?

I would think you would need a point reference like one right behind the front tire and one in front of the rear tire on the kick panel. Why not just take a level on the kick panel? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always measure fender height. A tape measure centered on the wheel from the ground to the fender lip. The rear on mine is 40 1/2" and the front is now 39 1/2" with 2 full turns on the torsion bar bolt.

The ride quality with 2 turns is the same as stock and raises the front to be within 1" of the rear.

As DuneH3 said, they make the adapter, (It is shown back on page 1) but many of the Colorado/Canyon guys have done 2" of lift with 6 full turns and have not had any problems. I will be leaving mine at 2 turns and report back if I have any problems.

SledgeHummer

08-13-2005, 01:48 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
As DuneH3 said, they make the adapter, (It is shown back on page 1) but many of the Colorado/Canyon guys have done 2" of lift with 6 full turns and have not had any problems. I will be leaving mine at 2 turns and report back if I have any problems. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it depends if the Colorado/Canyon guys go Offroading pretty often or is it a show vehicle.

Ball joints get affected not just by steering, but by wheel travel and constant suspension flex, when the torsion bar is tweaked the ball joints tighten, but if no suspension flex is occuring then they might have a chance.

On my Blazer, I tweaked the T-bar by 1 inch and go offroading every week-end, I completely change my set of ball joints every 3 months http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif but I cannot use this as an example because most of the damage is occuring from the soft sand getting into the ball joint and damaging it, but that's another story http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DuneH3

boulderhummer

08-13-2005, 04:33 PM

any of you guys think its a good idea to install a re-indexer/off set key even if your only going to raise it and inch...
will it matter or not??

SledgeHummer

08-13-2005, 06:55 PM

Only if you are a frequent Offroader boulder. If your vehicle never steps out of the road a 1 inch T-bar tweak is relatively safe. no need for re-indexers.

If you go Offroading quite often, T-Bar tweaking puts stress on Ball Joints (in general). Re-indexers gives you the benefit of lifting without the negative effects.

DuneH3

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by boulderhummer:
any of you guys think its a good idea to install a re-indexer/off set key even if your only going to raise it and inch...
will it matter or not?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

felsmann

08-13-2005, 07:09 PM

The reindexers just allow you to increase the maximum lift. They are typically used if...

A) your truck is old and the torsion bars have started to sag, or

B) if you want more lift than what turning the screws all the way in provides, which in a new truck could be beyond 3 inches - not a good idea.

As far as the comment regarding ball joints goes, it is true that lifting by Tbar "twisting" can accelerate damage in some vehicles, especially S-10s. What is not true is that the re-indexers will avoid this damage, the reindexer is the same principle as turning the screw on the T-bar but increasing maximum lift. What causes the damage on the S-10 truck ball joints is the angles at which the ball joints operate, and the overall design of the front end components.

I had an Explorer in the past with Tbars at 2" for 4 year and never had a problem, so it depends on the vehicle.
I'd recommend start with 1-1.5 inches and no more.

Good luck!

SledgeHummer

08-13-2005, 07:36 PM

Well I read about the Ball Joints damage in Four Wheeler magazine a couple of years back, the recommendation was never to go above 2 inch (1 inch safe). and the guy was talking about Ball Joint damage in general rather than vehicle specific.

As mentioned before my constant Ball Joint damage on my Blazer (S-15) comes from soft sand getting into the ball-joints rather than my 1 inch T-bar tweaking.

DuneH3

jagular7

08-13-2005, 08:57 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MxHonda:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
How do you measure the difference between front to rear?

I would think you would need a point reference like one right behind the front tire and one in front of the rear tire on the kick panel. Why not just take a level on the kick panel? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always measure fender height. A tape measure centered on the wheel from the ground to the fender lip. The rear on mine is 40 1/2" and the front is now 39 1/2" with 2 full turns on the torsion bar bolt.
.....snip..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you think if you drew a line between the fenders it would be horizontal? Most manu's have a taller front fender than the rear due to the cycling and movement of the front tires up/down & side/side (turning). Would it be the same for the window edge, drawing a horizontal line between the lower edge of the windows? It's really difficult with todays vehicles as they have a sloping front section, a taller rear section, etc all for aerodynamics.

I would think a common point related between front to rear would be used, ie. the kick panel, nerf bars, the steps, etc. I know its just eye-candy, but if you step back 20' you could see a difference.

boulderhummer

08-13-2005, 11:53 PM

appreciate the info guys!!!

Mu-taint

08-30-2005, 10:02 PM

I have a 2004 GMC Canyon that I "tweeked" the torsion bars on. Acheived a nice 1 and 3/4" lift in the front. I now have 40K on her and not a problem with suspendion or steering. I wouldn't go any higher then that because the ride will greatly suffer! I've heard of some dealers that will do this for you if you tell them you are going to add accessories such as a heavy brush guard or winch! It cost my buddy $80 plus alingment!
Just remember you have to get an alingment ASAP after you adjust your torsion bars!!!!

flkeysff

09-01-2005, 03:20 PM

Still waiting to hear about ride quality, I once owned a dodge dakota and did the same with the torsion bars and it rode horrible. Plus I lost some suspension travel. Thanks

MxHonda

09-01-2005, 07:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flkeysff:
Still waiting to hear about ride quality, I once owned a dodge dakota and did the same with the torsion bars and it rode horrible. Plus I lost some suspension travel. Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The ride quality with 2 turns is the same as stock and raises the front to be within 1" of the rear.

evomind

09-02-2005, 12:28 PM

i want to know why they didnt make it level from the factory?
is there a reason? i cant believe it "just happened" that one side sits 2" lower than the other. (front to back).

felsmann

09-02-2005, 01:35 PM

They wanted to make sure women would buy this SUV as well, so with the front end sitting lower, it is easier for them to get in the cabin.

evomind

09-02-2005, 01:51 PM

i cant believe they made the front lower to accomadate people or women getting in and out.
isnt that why they made the step bars?
come on!

MxHonda

09-02-2005, 08:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by evomind:
i want to know why they didnt make it level from the factory?
is there a reason? i cant believe it "just happened" that one side sits 2" lower than the other. (front to back). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In one of the H3 advirtisments, it states "your passangers wont even notice" talking about hard braking. I think the front is lower because:

1) when braking, the stock setup rests on the bump stops and does not allow the nose to dive.

2) because of the limits on range of motion with IFS, they needed to keep the ride in the middle of the suspension range of motion. This alone forced them to use the lower front ride height (they would have had to redesign the frame/IFS mounting like the lift kit companies will do). If you crank up the front too much, the range of upward suspension motion is decreasd. This causes the shock/suspension to "top out" an reach the upper limit when the front becomes unsprung. (clear as mud?)

timgco

09-03-2005, 01:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MxHonda:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by evomind:
i want to know why they didnt make it level from the factory?
is there a reason? i cant believe it "just happened" that one side sits 2" lower than the other. (front to back). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In one of the H3 advirtisments, it states "your passangers wont even notice" talking about hard braking. I think the front is lower because:

1) when braking, the stock setup rests on the bump stops and does not allow the nose to dive.

2) because of the limits on range of motion with IFS, they needed to keep the ride in the middle of the suspension range of motion. This alone forced them to use the lower front ride height (they would have had to redesign the frame/IFS mounting like the lift kit companies will do). If you crank up the front too much, the range of upward suspension motion is decreasd. This causes the shock/suspension to "top out" an reach the upper limit when the front becomes unsprung. (clear as mud?) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sound way better than "this is so girls buy the trucks."

MyxH3

09-05-2005, 02:52 AM

I was have decided to use the re-index keys as well as torquing the torsion bars, I will probably also replace the stock bump stops with possibly some energy suspension ones to compensate for the nose dive breaking issues. I think this will hold me over until the actual lifts become available.

timgco

09-05-2005, 02:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MyxH3:
I was have decided to use the re-index keys as well as torquing the torsion bars, I will probably also replace the stock bump stops with possibly some energy suspension ones to compensate for the nose dive breaking issues. I think this will hold me over until the actual lifts become available. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rancho's 4" is ready to order now and will ship on the 16th. If you plan on lifting, Id just wait. SEMA is on Nov. and I'm sure there will be other lifts there also.

DeLeon

09-05-2005, 05:39 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by timgco:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MyxH3:
I was have decided to use the re-index keys as well as torquing the torsion bars, I will probably also replace the stock bump stops with possibly some energy suspension ones to compensate for the nose dive breaking issues. I think this will hold me over until the actual lifts become available. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rancho's 4" is ready to order now and will ship on the 16th. If you plan on lifting, Id just wait. SEMA is on Nov. and I'm sure there will be other lifts there also. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

how much will it sell for?

KenP

09-08-2005, 01:59 AM

While picking up our H2 today, an H3 came in with ride problems. The owner said that when going over the crest of small speed bumps and such, the truck would "bang" down.

It turns out that after raising the front 1 1/2"'s with the torsion bars the front end was seriously pre-loaded. Things just snapped shut when going over the bumps.

He decided to leave them the way they are and live with the banging.

KenP

09-08-2005, 01:59 AM

BTW, the truck looked good. But he may have overdone it.

kacyk

09-30-2005, 01:27 AM

[/QUOTE]
The ride quality with 2 turns is the same as stock and raises the front to be within 1" of the rear.[/QUOTE]

MX,

My wheels came in so when I get back to Seattle on Saturday I will have them put on my 35/12.50-18 mud tires. I plan on having them turn the torsion nut 2 times (as you ended up doing). Before I go ahead, however, do you still feel that the ride is the same without any ill effects? Thanks, Kacy

MyxH3

09-30-2005, 01:58 PM

I was wondering the same thing http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ODAMO

10-25-2005, 02:30 AM

LAREDO TEXAS

11-20-2005, 03:45 AM

any updates if it will be safe to lift the front with two turns?? Will the alignment be needed?

hmrlvr

11-20-2005, 01:18 PM

I turned mine 2 times about 3 months ago. I've gone 6000 miles on and offroad since, and no problems. I didn't realign and the tires look good. I have rotated them though.

x-humm

11-20-2005, 02:28 PM

I followed your adjustment method. I have now 13,000 miles and no problems. Just don't go over 2 turns.

LAREDO TEXAS

11-20-2005, 10:43 PM

with 2 turns can you notice the diffrence in hight?

kacyk

11-20-2005, 11:15 PM

I had the shop crank it up 3 turns. I highly recommend not exceeding 2 turns. The ride, even at 3 turns is sufficiently compromised. Give it 2 turns and some miles to settle in. I think you'll like the the balance of ride and looks. Most of all, replace those skinny tires with something meaty!

LAREDO TEXAS

11-21-2005, 04:21 AM

THANKS for the info!!

AfroCreame

02-11-2006, 09:40 PM