thanks man

After 100 miles today, 5 turns is too much...I did learn alot about our front suspension though. As jagular mentioned earlier, the bump stops serve a purpose. With 5 turns, the nose dive on braking is pretty noticable until the bump stops are reached. Also, as Felsmann said, the suspension would top out when larger bumps were hit and you could hear the "thunk" when it extended to its limit. The ride on the highway was the same as before the "lift" with little or no affect (NOT including Michigan Highways). On side roads the steering wheel would "float" which shows that an alignment was required.

I backed them back down to 2 full turns and only lost 1/2" of lift, but the bump stops are near normal position now. I will report back tomorrow night.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by felsmann:
No need to do such thing.
By the way, make sure you raise the front with a jack under the cross member, not the LCA.

The wheels must hang freely before you adjust the t-bars. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Felsmann, good advice. I used a 4"x4" block of wood about 10" long and a floor jack. I positioned it right between the lower aluminum "H3" skid plate bolts and it lifted both tires evenly off the ground. Be sure to chock the rear tires for safety!

How do you measure the difference between front to rear?

I would think you would need a point reference like one right behind the front tire and one in front of the rear tire on the kick panel. Why not just take a level on the kick panel?

Hi Guys, I just got my H3 few days back, yesterday I took it for its first test in the Arabian Desert.

Anyway, before my H3, I used to drive (still do) a 2000 Chevy Blazer ZR2 (http://www.zr2.com) in a way the H3 replaces the ZR2 in the GM lineup, it has the same back axle, same front suspension, same shocks, same Gearbox.

Back to the subject, I have fiddled with my ZR2 and know a thing or two about torsion bar lifting. First of all, lifting the torsion bar will put tremendous stress on your ball joints, they will wear out before their due time. 2 inches is the MAX you can lift, you can even lift it more than 2 inches but the ball joints will fail within days. 2 inches will make'em fail within 3-4 months depending on your driving habits. 1 inch torsion bar lift is relatively safe.

To rememdy this problem, there is something called "Torsion Bar re-indexer" available for Blazers and Tahoes and all IFS-torsion bar trucks (not sure if it is avaialable yet for H3s) you can find them on any website like Summit Racing (http://www.summit.com) which basically is an adapter that you install at the body-end of the torsion bar (not the suspension end) and then fix your OEM torsion bar on that adapter. it's like "extending" your torsion bar. THEN you can lift your truck by 2 inches and more without affecting your ball joint performance. But I guess we'll have to wait until someone comes up with "re-indexers" for the H3.

Just my 2 cents

DuneH3

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
How do you measure the difference between front to rear?

I would think you would need a point reference like one right behind the front tire and one in front of the rear tire on the kick panel. Why not just take a level on the kick panel? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always measure fender height. A tape measure centered on the wheel from the ground to the fender lip. The rear on mine is 40 1/2" and the front is now 39 1/2" with 2 full turns on the torsion bar bolt.

The ride quality with 2 turns is the same as stock and raises the front to be within 1" of the rear.

As DuneH3 said, they make the adapter, (It is shown back on page 1) but many of the Colorado/Canyon guys have done 2" of lift with 6 full turns and have not had any problems. I will be leaving mine at 2 turns and report back if I have any problems.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
As DuneH3 said, they make the adapter, (It is shown back on page 1) but many of the Colorado/Canyon guys have done 2" of lift with 6 full turns and have not had any problems. I will be leaving mine at 2 turns and report back if I have any problems. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it depends if the Colorado/Canyon guys go Offroading pretty often or is it a show vehicle.

Ball joints get affected not just by steering, but by wheel travel and constant suspension flex, when the torsion bar is tweaked the ball joints tighten, but if no suspension flex is occuring then they might have a chance.

On my Blazer, I tweaked the T-bar by 1 inch and go offroading every week-end, I completely change my set of ball joints every 3 months but I cannot use this as an example because most of the damage is occuring from the soft sand getting into the ball joint and damaging it, but that's another story

DuneH3

any of you guys think its a good idea to install a re-indexer/off set key even if your only going to raise it and inch...
will it matter or not??

Only if you are a frequent Offroader boulder. If your vehicle never steps out of the road a 1 inch T-bar tweak is relatively safe. no need for re-indexers.

If you go Offroading quite often, T-Bar tweaking puts stress on Ball Joints (in general). Re-indexers gives you the benefit of lifting without the negative effects.

DuneH3

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by boulderhummer:
any of you guys think its a good idea to install a re-indexer/off set key even if your only going to raise it and inch...
will it matter or not?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reindexers just allow you to increase the maximum lift. They are typically used if...

A) your truck is old and the torsion bars have started to sag, or

B) if you want more lift than what turning the screws all the way in provides, which in a new truck could be beyond 3 inches - not a good idea.

As far as the comment regarding ball joints goes, it is true that lifting by Tbar "twisting" can accelerate damage in some vehicles, especially S-10s. What is not true is that the re-indexers will avoid this damage, the reindexer is the same principle as turning the screw on the T-bar but increasing maximum lift. What causes the damage on the S-10 truck ball joints is the angles at which the ball joints operate, and the overall design of the front end components.

I had an Explorer in the past with Tbars at 2" for 4 year and never had a problem, so it depends on the vehicle.
I'd recommend start with 1-1.5 inches and no more.

Good luck!

Well I read about the Ball Joints damage in Four Wheeler magazine a couple of years back, the recommendation was never to go above 2 inch (1 inch safe). and the guy was talking about Ball Joint damage in general rather than vehicle specific.

As mentioned before my constant Ball Joint damage on my Blazer (S-15) comes from soft sand getting into the ball-joints rather than my 1 inch T-bar tweaking.

DuneH3

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MxHonda:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
How do you measure the difference between front to rear?

I would think you would need a point reference like one right behind the front tire and one in front of the rear tire on the kick panel. Why not just take a level on the kick panel? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always measure fender height. A tape measure centered on the wheel from the ground to the fender lip. The rear on mine is 40 1/2" and the front is now 39 1/2" with 2 full turns on the torsion bar bolt.
.....snip..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you think if you drew a line between the fenders it would be horizontal? Most manu's have a taller front fender than the rear due to the cycling and movement of the front tires up/down & side/side (turning). Would it be the same for the window edge, drawing a horizontal line between the lower edge of the windows? It's really difficult with todays vehicles as they have a sloping front section, a taller rear section, etc all for aerodynamics.

I would think a common point related between front to rear would be used, ie. the kick panel, nerf bars, the steps, etc. I know its just eye-candy, but if you step back 20' you could see a difference.

appreciate the info guys!!!

I have a 2004 GMC Canyon that I "tweeked" the torsion bars on. Acheived a nice 1 and 3/4" lift in the front. I now have 40K on her and not a problem with suspendion or steering. I wouldn't go any higher then that because the ride will greatly suffer! I've heard of some dealers that will do this for you if you tell them you are going to add accessories such as a heavy brush guard or winch! It cost my buddy $80 plus alingment!
Just remember you have to get an alingment ASAP after you adjust your torsion bars!!!!

Still waiting to hear about ride quality, I once owned a dodge dakota and did the same with the torsion bars and it rode horrible. Plus I lost some suspension travel. Thanks

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by flkeysff:
Still waiting to hear about ride quality, I once owned a dodge dakota and did the same with the torsion bars and it rode horrible. Plus I lost some suspension travel. Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The ride quality with 2 turns is the same as stock and raises the front to be within 1" of the rear.

i want to know why they didnt make it level from the factory?
is there a reason? i cant believe it "just happened" that one side sits 2" lower than the other. (front to back).

They wanted to make sure women would buy this SUV as well, so with the front end sitting lower, it is easier for them to get in the cabin.

i cant believe they made the front lower to accomadate people or women getting in and out.
isnt that why they made the step bars?
come on!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by evomind:
i want to know why they didnt make it level from the factory?
is there a reason? i cant believe it "just happened" that one side sits 2" lower than the other. (front to back). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In one of the H3 advirtisments, it states "your passangers wont even notice" talking about hard braking. I think the front is lower because:

1) when braking, the stock setup rests on the bump stops and does not allow the nose to dive.

2) because of the limits on range of motion with IFS, they needed to keep the ride in the middle of the suspension range of motion. This alone forced them to use the lower front ride height (they would have had to redesign the frame/IFS mounting like the lift kit companies will do). If you crank up the front too much, the range of upward suspension motion is decreasd. This causes the shock/suspension to "top out" an reach the upper limit when the front becomes unsprung. (clear as mud?)