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-   -   Anyone else break their transfer case? (http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16944)

HummBebe 05-25-2006 03:21 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alec W
I did drive home on time however :D;)


:p

NEOCON1 05-25-2006 03:24 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
that really hurts :eek: :D

Hummie2 05-25-2006 03:35 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
[quote=HummBebe]I think you (and rckrawl) are definitely on to something.....!

Questions:

If the flex causes the pinion gear to shear off ring gear teeth, then this would occur under extreme "Flex" conditions? With IFS???

Don't confuse suspension flex with housing flex (distorsion). The housing distorts out of shape from the torque load on it. You could do it on smooth level surface if could apply enough torque to the axle ( example hard acceleration).

If the case has been flexed, ring gear damaged, is the housing still useable???

Its iffy. If the tech could read .022" backlash upon disassembly ( assume it was within spec when new) I would say the housing was sprung to some degree. Will it happen again? it might if the axle ever sees that much strain again.

Should I have the differential housing inspected? Replaced?

If it happens again, definitely.

Would a housing made from a different material (H3's are aluminum) be more stable?

The housing looks pretty light from the pics, heavier casting w/billet bearing caps would be better. Nodular iron would definitely be stronger.

Is there any manufacturers who produce a Cast iron or some other type of Steel housing?

Yes. There alot of options. How strong do you want to go?$$$$$$$ I think I will wait and and see how the General addresses this issue. You can bet they know they have a problem by now. I bet they are doing tests to see how much torque it take to distort those housings. Anything YOU do will void the warranty.
I fought housing flex in certain Dana 44s (they are not all cast the same) before. Bottom line: when I reinforced the housing and stopped the flex(distorsion) I stopped breaking ring & pinion gears.

HummBebe 05-25-2006 03:40 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Thank you Hummie2.

I will be going back to the scene of the carnage in August. Chop Chop GM....momma needs a new diff

NEOCON1 05-25-2006 03:46 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
thanx Hummie , great info for us :D :D

H3 Hummer 05-25-2006 03:53 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NEOCON1
i might pinch you on the bottom , but I would never slap you :p well , i guess i could slap you on the bottom ;) :D


X2 :)

HummBebe 05-25-2006 06:53 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
[quote=Hummie2][quote=HummBebe]I think you (and rckrawl) are definitely on to something.....![quote=HummBebe]

Questions:

If the flex causes the pinion gear to shear off ring gear teeth, then this would occur under extreme "Flex" conditions? With IFS???

Quote:

Don't confuse suspension flex with housing flex (distorsion). The housing distorts out of shape from the torque load on it. You could do it on smooth level surface if could apply enough torque to the axle ( example hard acceleration).

If the case has been flexed, ring gear damaged, is the housing still useable???

Quote:

Its iffy. If the tech could read .022" backlash upon disassembly ( assume it was within spec when new) I would say the housing was sprung to some degree. Will it happen again? it might if the axle ever sees that much strain again.

Should I have the differential housing inspected? Replaced?

Quote:

If it happens again, definitely.

Would a housing made from a different material (H3's are aluminum) be more stable?

Quote:

The housing looks pretty light from the pics, heavier casting w/billet bearing caps would be better. Nodular iron would definitely be stronger.


Is there any manufacturers who produce a Cast iron or some other type of Steel housing?

Quote:

Yes. There alot of options. How strong do you want to go?$$$$$$$ I think I will wait and and see how the General addresses this issue. You can bet they know they have a problem by now. I bet they are doing tests to see how much torque it take to distort those housings. Anything YOU do will void the warranty.



Quote:

I fought housing flex in certain Dana 44s (they are not all cast the same) before. Bottom line: when I reinforced the housing and stopped the flex (distorsion) I stopped breaking ring & pinion gears.


One last Q:

How does one "reinforce " the housing and stop the flex?

DRTYFN 05-25-2006 07:53 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HummBebe
One last Q:

How does one "reinforce " the housing and stop the flex?


Buy an H2.:D

I'll bet GM is already has or is currently working on a solution. Sounds slightly reminiscent of the casting flaws in some/all of the early H2 front diffs.

f5fstop 05-25-2006 10:49 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
[quote=Hummie2]
Quote:

Originally Posted by HummBebe
I think you (and rckrawl) are definitely on to something.....!

Questions:

If the flex causes the pinion gear to shear off ring gear teeth, then this would occur under extreme "Flex" conditions? With IFS???

Don't confuse suspension flex with housing flex (distorsion). The housing distorts out of shape from the torque load on it. You could do it on smooth level surface if could apply enough torque to the axle ( example hard acceleration).

If the case has been flexed, ring gear damaged, is the housing still useable???Yes, under most circumstances, so long as it has not grenaded like Mike's
Its iffy. If the tech could read .022" backlash upon disassembly ( assume it was within spec when new) I would say the housing was sprung to some degree. Will it happen again? it might if the axle ever sees that much strain again. Or bearings and races were shot
Should I have the differential housing inspected? Replaced?

If it happens again, definitely.

Would a housing made from a different material (H3's are aluminum) be more stable? It would cause less flex in the housing

The housing looks pretty light from the pics, heavier casting w/billet bearing caps would be better. Nodular iron would definitely be stronger.

Is there any manufacturers who produce a Cast iron or some other type of Steel housing? Yes, AAM makes the identical axle in cast iron

Yes. There alot of options. How strong do you want to go?$$$$$$$ I think I will wait and and see how the General addresses this issue. You can bet they know they have a problem by now. I bet they are doing tests to see how much torque it take to distort those housings. Anything YOU do will void the warranty. Only warranty that would be void if you replace a front axle, would be the front axle, a new front heavier axle should not affect any other parts of the drivetrain
I fought housing flex in certain Dana 44s (they are not all cast the same) before. Bottom line: when I reinforced the housing and stopped the flex(distorsion) I stopped breaking ring & pinion gears. I did the same, and I ended up busting axles. Every part of the drive train has a weak link, something will break if too much torque is applied with too much weight and too much restriction, in my Jeep it was the axle shafts. Personally, I would prefer the shafts, easy to replace in the field, and inexpensive.


Just MY opinions on this issue

rkcrawl 05-25-2006 11:41 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
[quote=f5fstop]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hummie2

Is there any manufacturers who produce a Cast iron or some other type of Steel housing? Yes, AAM makes the identical axle in cast iron

Just MY opinions on this issue



The above is good info... that means there is a direct bolt in replacement made of what should be a higher strength (albeit heavier) replacement. I'm sure that the aluminum case was used for weight savings, but if its proven that case deflection is whats causing this issue, it was a bad choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by f5fstop
I fought housing flex in certain Dana 44s (they are not all cast the same) before. Bottom line: when I reinforced the housing and stopped the flex(distorsion) I stopped breaking ring & pinion gears. I did the same, and I ended up busting axles. Every part of the drive train has a weak link, something will break if too much torque is applied with too much weight and too much restriction, in my Jeep it was the axle shafts. Personally, I would prefer the shafts, easy to replace in the field, and inexpensive.



Any of us here who has seriously wheeled has broken more then our fair share of parts. I've busted R&Ps, 9" ford cases, bent housings, axle shafts, transfer case output shafts, driveshafts, etc. I eventually ended up with Dana 60s front and rear, then my axle problems went away (in that rig... :D)

HummBebe 05-25-2006 05:15 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Would Dana 60's be a viable replacement in the H3??? Is it possible? I would like to change to 4:88's as I have 35" tires.

Would West Coat Differential be the people to talk to???

http://www.differentials.com/

rkcrawl 05-25-2006 06:13 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HummBebe
Would Dana 60's be a viable replacement in the H3??? Is it possible? I would like to change to 4:88's as I have 35" tires.

Would West Coat Differential be the people to talk to???

http://www.differentials.com/


The problem with a D60 on the H3 is the front... The front is IFS so a D60 from someone like WCD would probably want to be a full straight axle swap... not sure it you would want to get into something like that. As far swapping in a different IFS diff... That might be very challenging. Doesn't look like a lot of space where the current case is located.

The easy swap (but I guess gears are the issue?) would be the cast iron AAM case which would be a bolt in replacement. Other possible solutions might be the front case from an current GM 3/4 ton IFS 4x4 or maybe a H2 front case? Again space and mounting would probably be the first issues, then connection the outer axle shafts, etc...

I've seen custom 9" housing made, and if the center section fit under the front of the H3 I am sure it could be made to work with the stock IFS. In fact I know of a guy who did just that with a Toyota front IFS. With a nodular case and billet steel bearing caps you would end up with a "nearly" bullet proof front diff (though your probably start stressing the front half shafts :D) and lots of options for a front locker too :D

As much as it would be a pain, for now, I'd let the dealer fix it under warranty before I spent ALOT of money on a customer solution. 1) Maybe GM will own up to fixing it right or 2) You end up doing something else once the warrantly is up and you've had time to really investigate solutions.

I'll be on the trails with mine soon and if I run into the same kind of issue, I'll be looking into solutions as well.

HummBebe 05-25-2006 06:39 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alec W
Theoretically could this happen in a mall if you gunned it on sticky pavement?


LMFAO!!!:D

I'm sure that's how Sewie busted his.

Hummie2 05-25-2006 07:50 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Yes, AAM makes the identical axle in cast iron

f5fstop... do you happen to know what application the cast iron version is used in? Year, make, model would be nice to know if possible.:D

Sewie 05-25-2006 07:52 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HummBebe
LMFAO!!!:D

I'm sure that's how Sewie busted his.


How would you know, you were out shopping at the time. :p

f5fstop 05-25-2006 11:11 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hummie2
Yes, AAM makes the identical axle in cast iron

f5fstop... do you happen to know what application the cast iron version is used in? Year, make, model would be nice to know if possible.:D


Not sure without doing a parts check, and not even sure if GM uses the cast iron version. If they do, it would be in a half-ton pickup. The Colorado/Canyon uses different axles.

4Skin 05-26-2006 02:26 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Does the H3 share the same tranny as the Liberty? That's bad news.

HummBebe 05-26-2006 03:49 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Ok, been researching, the Range Rover and Nissan 4x4 are having a similar issues. Aluminum Cases....go figure.

The only front axels I can find so far are GM 8.25 IFS and 9.25 IFS.

The only reason I am on this , is I already have 27K miles. By the time GM gets around to finding a fix, my warranty will be out.

That does not make me happy. I still have not been reimbursed from my dealer from the April failure.

Besides, I don't do "waiting" well :D

rkcrawl 05-26-2006 12:14 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Skin
Does the H3 share the same tranny as the Liberty? That's bad news.


Thats doubtful. The H3 has a GM 4L60E transmission.

edit: Whoops, I don't know about the manual transmission... They could be the same.

rkcrawl 05-26-2006 12:20 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HummBebe
Ok, been researching, the Range Rover and Nissan 4x4 are having a similar issues. Aluminum Cases....go figure.

The only front axels I can find so far are GM 8.25 IFS and 9.25 IFS.

The only reason I am on this , is I already have 27K miles. By the time GM gets around to finding a fix, my warranty will be out.

That does not make me happy. I still have not been reimbursed from my dealer from the April failure.

Besides, I don't do "waiting" well :D


Is your H3 a daily driver or your toy? If a toy, WTH, why not consider a straight axle swap and get rid of the IFS altogether in the front? :D Someone has to be first. :D Though the can of worms that would open is pretty big.

Did they replace your case last time or just install a new R&P?

Desert Dan 05-26-2006 01:17 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Would a Cast Iron or thick steel cover on the front diff help with any of the flexing??


Also the manual tranny in the H3 appears to be verey similar to the one in my buddies Toyota 4 Runner?? -!-
Some ting wong

HummBebe 05-26-2006 02:36 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Did they replace your case last time or just install a new R&P?

No they did not. Just the ring and pinion.

HummBebe 05-26-2006 02:38 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rkcrawl
Is your H3 a daily driver or your toy? If a toy, WTH, why not consider a straight axle swap and get rid of the IFS altogether in the front? :D Someone has to be first. :D Though the can of worms that would open is pretty big.


It is my daily driver. And my toy:D

Mike E 05-26-2006 03:01 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HummBebe
It is my daily driver. And my toy:D



^^ditto^^

lllateralus 05-28-2006 05:41 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
**from the FJ IN ACTION thread**

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJHummerGuy
....why would you get that when you can get the H3 for just about same price?


THIS THREAD IS WHY!:eek:

HummBebe 05-28-2006 06:06 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lllateralus
**from the FJ IN ACTION thread**



THIS THREAD IS WHY!:eek:


Don't worry, the FJ will start busting junk too when someone starts wheeling it hard enough.:rolleyes:

lllateralus 05-28-2006 08:17 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Well, it didnt sound like he was wheeling it hard... AT ALL.:confused:

And the FJ is and will be a typical toyota 4X4. Bulletproof for a few hundred thousand miles or more.

(and many FJ's out there have been wheeled quite hard... but im sure you are well aware)

NEOCON1 05-28-2006 08:27 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
we see alot of the 2 wheel drive models out there ;) bulletproof ? :eek:

f5fstop 05-28-2006 11:53 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HummBebe
Ok, been researching, the Range Rover and Nissan 4x4 are having a similar issues. Aluminum Cases....go figure.

The only front axels I can find so far are GM 8.25 IFS and 9.25 IFS.

The only reason I am on this , is I already have 27K miles. By the time GM gets around to finding a fix, my warranty will be out.

That does not make me happy. I still have not been reimbursed from my dealer from the April failure.

Besides, I don't do "waiting" well :D


I'm assuming you got pre-authorization from the dealer or Hummer before the repairs were performed in Moab? If so, who gave the authorization the dealer or Hummer assistance? Let me know, I might (and I say only might) be able to call someone; especially if the ok for the repair came from the assistance center.

As for the front diff; AAM makes a cast iron 760 axle, that is supposed to be identical to the aluminum axle currently being used on the H3.


I believe somone asked about the manual trans, the H3 uses the Aisen AR5, and this could well be the same trans used on many other vehicles.

HummBebe 05-29-2006 12:15 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
I called my dealer from the trail, they said they would send parts. The parts were ordered from the Salt Lake Dealership. I spoke with them. No one asked me to call the Assistance Center. Neither my dealer nor the Salt Lake dealer.

Neo's items were fully repaired, they were authorized to cannibalize a new truck to repair his. They covered everything fully.

My dealer asked me to pay for the parts and bring them in when I returned from Moab. I did.

My Service manager said he needed to speak to his rep first (I'm assuming the GM Warranty rep?). I recieved one phone call about two weeks ago telling me they were still working on it.

My service manager did say, he did not see any problems with being reimbursed, however, it was on April 21st that the breakdown occurred. No one has called since.:(

I don't know if you can help, but any assistance would be welcome and greatly appreciated.

f5fstop 05-29-2006 12:16 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lllateralus
Well, it didnt sound like he was wheeling it hard... AT ALL.:confused:

And the FJ is and will be a typical toyota 4X4. Bulletproof for a few hundred thousand miles or more.

(and many FJ's out there have been wheeled quite hard... but im sure you are well aware)


Yea, Toyota's are bulletproof. Tell that to a friend of mine who had his Land Cruiser towed off the White Rim Trail, outside of Moab, a few years ago. Lucky he had a tow strap. He didn't hit anything, and for those who have traveled the White Rim Trail, know there is nothing he could hit to damage the vehicle. However, his trans grenaded for no apparent reason. Toyota paid the tow to Grand Junction, and replaced the trans without a whimper, so that is good.
My ex-girl friend in TN, had a Toyota Echo, and that was the biggest piece of S**t I have ever seen. It spent more time in the dealer than any car I have ever had (except for my wonderful Caterra:( ), and except for a few Jeeps, all my vehicles in the past 15 years have been GM.
I'm not saying Toyotas are bad, just have a problem of people implying they never break. Anything man-made can break.

f5fstop 05-29-2006 12:25 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HummBebe
I called my dealer from the trail, they said they would send parts. The parts were ordered from the Salt Lake Dealership. I spoke with them. No one asked me to call the Assistance Center. Neither my dealer nor the Salt Lake dealer.

Neo's items were fully repaired, they were authorized to cannibalize a new truck to repair his. They covered everything fully.

My dealer asked me to pay for the parts and bring them in when I returned from Moab. I did.

My Service manager said he needed to speak to his rep first (I'm assuming the GM Warranty rep?). I recieved one phone call about two weeks ago telling me they were still working on it.

My service manager did say, he did not see any problems with being reimbursed, however, it was on April 21st that the breakdown occurred. No one has called since.:(

I don't know if you can help, but any assistance would be welcome and greatly appreciated.


I can't interact with dealers, I was hoping the assistance center had gotten involved. What I would suggest is to call the dealer and ask why he has not reimbursed you for the claim. If there is a problem with Hummer, let me know; as you probably already know, I love busting the chops of the Hummer Brand Quality Manager, and I have no problem emailing him to see if he can help get this solved.
If it is a problem with the assistance center, I can write an old friend who is in charge of the Gm assistance center in Cambridge Ontario, and the Saturn Assistance Center in TN. He may not be directly in charge of the Hummer center in Austin TX, but he should have some contacts. Besides, he is a Utah boy, born and raised in Utah, and then went to work with GM. So he might appreciate the H3 failed in his old home state, Utah.

Let me know, you should have my email address, if not, just PM me and I'll help all I can to get you your money back. Can't guarantee anything, but possibly I can help.

ketcat 05-29-2006 02:21 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
So if the AAM 760 is identical that sounds like a good alternative (assuming all the mounting points, gear ratios etc are the same). Does anyone know what the 760 was or is currently used in?

http://www.aam.com/technology/tech_prod_dl_frontaxle.html

I checked their web site and they don?t list a 760, just a 725 in aluminum or iron and a 763 in iron which looks different in the picture.

HummBebe 05-29-2006 02:54 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
http://www.drivetrain.com/

These guys look like they might know:D Cool site.

ketcat 05-29-2006 03:05 AM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Thanks I may call them. I am very interested in finding my options. I go four wheeling with the wife and kids so reliability is the highest priority for me.

f5fstop 05-29-2006 12:48 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Sorry, meant the 725, why I typed 760 even amazes me.:confused:

Idaho-Hummer 05-29-2006 02:20 PM

Front locker anybody
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ketcat


http://www.aam.com/technology/tech_prod_dl_frontaxle.html

a 725 in aluminum or iron and a 763 in iron which looks different in the picture.


Did anybody else noticed that these guy's have a bunch of locking differential that are compatible with abs and traction control systems that can be turned on via a user. I will admit that I kn ow very little in this area, but could we not get them for our front locker?


http://www.aam.com/technology/tech_prod_dl_diff.html

ketcat 05-29-2006 05:42 PM

Re: Anyone else break their transfer case?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by f5fstop
Sorry, meant the 725, why I typed 760 even amazes me.:confused:


I call it "fat finger syndrome" :D I fall victim to it on a daily bases.

Thanks for all your help.


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