Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

I'm not sure what you mean by updated tune? I do each one as it comes in?

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Meaning a graph with all those little squiggly lines on it..., that was done for an H3. Recently.

I can understand if you don't want to share proprietary information with the whole whirrled.

What about changing the shift points for hauling around a set of 35's, a roof rack, front winch bumper, winch, rock rail-side steps, 2 roof ladders and a rear bumper?

Can it do that? I'm really curious, I'm a girl, you know.....kinda dumb when it comes to all this techie stuff.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Let's see it please. Nothing proprietary about the graph requested.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Yes...the shift points are a large part of what we are doing with the transmission tuning. Some of our people on here have the 35's with the tune and tell us it makes a substantial difference.

I do not have any recent H3 graphs, sorry. The majority of truck folks (all trucks, not just H3) that stop by in person to get a tune aren't interested in ponying up the extra cash to get on the dyno. They want the seat of the pants difference...noticeable power, better shifting, etc etc and aren't really interested in knowing what it makes on the dyno.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

I just looked at the stock PCM program for the 04, 05, 06 colorado I5 and the 06 H3. The high octane timing table is essentially the same (there are very small differences at low RPMs and low cylinder airmass) for all these vehicles/years. The WOT timing is identical. The commanded air/fuel ratio is identical. The timing and the A/F ratio are the major items that control engine performance. I would look at this 04 Canyon dyno curve and ratio the performance gain.

http://www.pcmforless.com/images/dyn...s/04Canyon.jpg

Stock 166 HP, tuned 182 HP -> ~10% increase in peak power

Stock 174 TQ, tuned 188 TQ -> ~8% increase in peak torque

It's reasonable to assume that the H3 would gain 10% HP and 8% torque with the same tune and octane fuel. This would make the 06's 220 HP -> ~ 242 HP about same as the 3.7L 2007.

The percenatage gain at the wheels would be the same, but the actual gain (delta HP gain) would be less since we have more drivetrain loss than the colorado/canyon. So, the 04 Canyon's HP gain of 16 HP at the wheels might be ~13 HP at the wheels for the H3.

A region that doesn't show up on the dyno plots is the off-idle power/torque. The custom tune really helps in this low RPM range but the range is rarely dyno'd (only felt by the seat-of-the-pants).

The other benefits of the custom tune are better idle quality, better auto tranny shifting RPM/speed and firmness, and many people see an improvement in MPG.

I think PCMforLess has a dynojet (front or rear wheels only) but not a 4-wheel dyno. 4-wheel dynos are expensive and pretty rare to come by and expensive. The problem is that not all wheelbases are the same so it becomes a business return-on-investment issue to buy a 4-wheel dyno. When I was publishing truck articles, I think I was the only person that could dyno an all-wheel drive/4-wheel drive vehicle within my state and all the nearby states.

I wouldn't take the lack of a dyno as something bad.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Thanks.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

I'm getting the 315's put on next Friday.

I'm definitely going to get one of these tunes.

Thanks for everyone's input on this. :)

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Well somehow I have the heavyest H3 that I know of that has been weighed. 5640. I may go back and double check that. Even Bebe seems to have less than me somehow with all here new armour. I also pull a 3500 pound work trailer or a 14' Whaler. The tune smoothed out all the other mods I made and now it pulls both of these without all that downshifting and high reving even to passing gear just to run the interstate. I have the adventure with auto and 33.1 tires. I also have all kinds of anti-aerodynamic "stuff". I was one of those that did not even ask about hp and ft.lbs. I was more interested in gettin more low end and throttle response on trails and towing and highway shifing. I only recently saw the gains in hp and torque figures. Which are cheap increases. It all adds up.
I have found a way to get really good mileage also!

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Add me to the list of happy PCMforless customers.

I am about as hard-a$$ed when it comes to performance tunes as anyone and more than most. Ask Superchips, Powerchips and Absolut - I have worked with them all with a variety of cars and none were happy with my published and private comments. I dyno'ed my car before and after every single chip change (after doing whatever the chipper suggested was proper break-in) and not once did the dyno back up their claims.

On the other hand, my impression of the PCMforless tune is that "yes" there is modest improvement in power - let's face it 10-15 difference will not be noticeable in vehicles weighing what our H3s weigh. I was most interested in addressing shift points, the lousy feeling of "lugging" all of the time AND having it reprogrammed to account for my 35" MTs. Well, I got what i paid for and am very happy with it. My speedo now correlates with my GPS speed, it doesn't lug as it had, it does feel more peppy AND my gas mileage, which ahd dropped to 12 mpg (corrected for the odometer error associated with larger tires) when I went with 315/75-16 BFG MTs is now back up to 15mpg.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

x2:excited:

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

I'd like to know exactly what changes are done to the base map. Spill it all out. I train Harley Davidson techs on fuel injection tuning in my spare time, so I understand maps etc.

If you are not tuning on a dyno and have no dyno maps for the H3, then you are telling me you are winging it and probably doing nothing more that bumping up the timing or slightly modifying someone elses canned maps.

Sounds to me as if you guys are paying half as much for a hand held programmer and only getting a single map and no hand-held programmer. On top of that you have to deal with this loaner ECM crap. THen do it each time you want to make a change? How is this a good deal, I'd like to know?

You guys are paying this turd a rediculous amount of money for hardly nothing. He bought the tuning software, makes a 10 second change and charges you how much?

I tell you what, I will do what he's doing and 10 times better for less money. I will take my wifes H3 down to the dyno and custom tune every cell in the map (which I gurantee this turd does not do!) and completely blow his maps away and have the dyno results to prove it.

Bottom line, if he's not dyno tuning every single vehicle, then you are getting a "canned" map and not custom tuned for your vehicle. Do yourself a favor and just by a hand-held programmer. they are very easy to use. If you want more than that, get the custom mapping done on a dyno.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Thanks for putting in the good word :dancingbanana:

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

"I'd like to know exactly what changes are done to the base map. Spill it all out. I train Harley Davidson techs on fuel injection tuning in my spare time, so I understand maps etc."

Why would a tuning company divulge what numbers they change on every tables? How does this make for good business sense?

"If you are not tuning on a dyno and have no dyno maps for the H3, then you are telling me you are winging it and probably doing nothing more that bumping up the timing or slightly modifying someone elses canned maps."

Actually, most real tuners (like LPE) tune so far on the dyno then finalize it on the track/street/strip. The problem is that the inertial dynos (and some other dynos) don't load down the vehicle (or motorcycle) as it is actaully loaded on the road. How do you account for the various riders' heights/frontal areas when loading down the bike when dyno tuning to get the proper aerodynamic drag for proper drivetrain loading? Yeah, that's what I thought.

"Sounds to me as if you guys are paying half as much for a hand held programmer and only getting a single map and no hand-held programmer. On top of that you have to deal with this loaner ECM crap. THen do it each time you want to make a change? How is this a good deal, I'd like to know?"

A Hypertech handheld or Jet performance piggyback isn't going to get you to the customization of a personal tune.

"You guys are paying this turd a rediculous amount of money for hardly nothing. He bought the tuning software, makes a 10 second change and charges you how much?"

Do you know these people? Have you done any research? So far I have not seen any complaints about PCMforLess on here, other H3 forums, and colorado/canyon forums.

"I tell you what, I will do what he's doing and 10 times better for less money. I will take my wifes H3 down to the dyno and custom tune every cell in the map (which I gurantee this turd does not do!) and completely blow his maps away and have the dyno results to prove it."

Shut up and do it. Post all of your table changes. Strap your wife's H3 on to your motorcycle dyno and see what happens. (pssst don't stand in front of the H3) Some simple questions:

1) What load are you going to place on the wheels for each cell?
2) How many VE tables does the H3 use?
3) The programming has a table that adjusts timing for different intake air temperatures. Is your dyno in an evironmentally controlled room so that you can tune every cell in the map for every possible intake temperature from -40 to 248 F (since this is the table range).
4) The programming has a table that adjusts timing for engine coolant temperatures. Do you have a coolant heater/cooler to adjust water temperature (over -4 to 284 F - since this is the table range) so that you can tune every cell in the map.

How are you going to do 10 times better? How do you meaure the improvement - horsepower gain? So, if PCMforLess produces 15 HP gain you are going to produce a 150 horsepower gain?

"Bottom line, if he's not dyno tuning every single vehicle, then you are getting a "canned" map and not custom tuned for your vehicle. Do yourself a favor and just by a hand-held programmer. they are very easy to use. If you want more than that, get the custom mapping done on a dyno."

Why would you pay twice as much for a canned map from a hand-held programmer?

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

I guess everyone's entitled to their opinions.

Personally, I'm placing my order for a PCM tune this afternoon.

I have read the threads on PCM for Less on Elcova and on
Hummerforums.com - EVERYONE that has gotten a tune has
been happy with it. There was a major skeptic on Hummerforums
that I understand in the beginning gave major flack about this company
and its tunes, well now he has one of their tunes and is SUPER HAPPY with the tune.

I'm putting 315's on my truck and this tune will do what I want it to:
correct the shift points, show the correct mileage on the speedometer/odometer and give me a smoother ride. I will also get some other benefits as other posters/threads have mentioned, for me that will be great!

ChevyHighPerformance and others with the technical knowledge that I don't have, have looked into this company and are satisfied - so that is good enough for me for what I need done. :beerchug:


If you don't like or care for the company - then don't buy their product.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

It is evident to me that tomp doesn't even have the slightest idea of what I do. It is more than changing one map, my friend.

I don't feel as if I have to respond to his post, seeing as I am just a turd anyway. :shhh:

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

-I never asked for the exact numbers
-It's called a "Load Controlled Dyno" since you don't know
-Exactly wht I referred to a custom tune on a dyno my unknowing friend
-Don't need to know them, just know what they are charging and not doing a thorough tune on top of that. Simply they are making changes by loading canned maps and no personalization is done in the form of a custom tune.
-I have access to auto & bike load-controlled dynos and even 4-wheel drive dyno with load control
-A map can be 10 times better because there is more than just wide open throttle increases. There are variations in VE, (MAP) Manifold Absolute Pressure, throttle position, timing, engine temp, outside temp, etc. There are thousands of different combinations and variances in these different cells, so there can be much more than a 10x improvement/comparison.
-Yes, the Dyno rooms are temp controlled, exhaust evacuation, and forced air provided for cooling. Each Cylinder is also probed and can be tuned independently if you want to get extreme.

And your post is nothing more than a desperate attempt....LOL:violin:

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

:popcorn:

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Somehow, I knew you wouldn't respond. Know need to post exact cell numbers, and I never asked for that. But you know you are way overcharging for the few seconds of changes you are doing to each ECM.

(Patiently awaiting your next dance move)

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Tomp. This kind of slander is uneccessary. Calling someone a turd on a public forum is downright rude. I probably am in the majority of owners on this forum, that were, and are, looking for a quick fix for some improvement in performance. Through word of mouth, and solid media advertising, I was convinced this was the way I needed to go. I am not a gear head, and dynos blah blah has no interest for me. Positive comments from other members on this board was the deciding factor for me to contact kelly and order a PCM. It was quick, painless, and in my opinion, very effective. My mpg has gone from 12 to 15 miles to the gallon, and I really like the new feel of the transmission. IT WAS MY CHOICE TO GO WITH THIS COMPANY. The last time I checked CNN news we had not been invaded, thus I presume we are STILL & ALWAYS WILL BE A FREE COUNTRY. That being said, we have the choice to do biz with any one we choose to, irrelevant if any one else thinks the product is good or bad.
Please keep your potty mouth to yourself

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

You have all this technology and knowledge at your fingertips and you want to know - "I'd like to know exactly what changes are done to the base map. Spill it all out." Why would you want to know what an inferior turd company is doing if you can do it ten times better.

All in the same post: First, you want to know exactly what they are changing. Then, you call them a turd company. Finally, you say you can do it ten times better.

Sounds like you are on the foreskin of technology and really don't need anyone's help.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

You are right and I apologize for the comment

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Hey Bro, sorry if made the original post with steam in it. I was just looking out for the other members. I have a bad habit of jumping into something whenever I see people selling something on a forum and over charging for it. I didn't mean to cause any problems.

Bottom line though....the members would be better off to get a custom tune as every engine is different and modifying different cells affects each engine differently. They would also be better off in the long run if they were to make other mods such as tire height changes etc, to just get a hand-held.

In all fairness, he is charging as much as a Windows operating system and not doing any programming or tuning. A fair price for what he is doing is about $40-50 and that's it.

Again, sorry I started off wrong.....

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

:lame:

Here's an idea jerkoff, do it, prove it and then talk about it. Until then, you're an idiot running his mouth behind his computer, looking like a . . . may I quote, "a turd"!! STFU!!

The people in this thread bashing the great results of this tune, really need to get a life, or a clue. We're talking about a simple tune to smooth out what comes from the factory, and in some cases, tweaking for add-ons like tires and intakes. I've had 5 different C5 Corvette's with at least 100 dyno's between them, but why on earth would I want to dyno a fricking H3?? Especially if I wasn't installing a turbo or blower?? Nit-picking a $149 tune?? For a reference, I pay $400 every time I tune one of the Vettes.

The good thing, PCM for Less results and their professionalism speak for itself, stands above the internet idiots, and for that I applaud them. Here's an idea, if your skeptical, DON'T USE THEM!! The rest of us are happy.

:dancingbanana:
:rant: Thank you, I'm done now!! :yawn: :excited:

:beerchug:

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

It never ceases to amaze me the nerve some people have to slander a product they have not even tried.

Who are YOU to try and dictate what I should charge for my work?

Let's look at this rationally. I am an H3 person and I want a tune for my truck. I'm looking for a tune, but gee, there's not really a whole lot out there, and those who do offer tuning few and far between for my truck want almost $499 for a tune. I could always buy a jet chip for about $300 though - but that doesn't do squat. And you want to talk about generic? One size jet chip fits all. Hmm, not going to cut it.

So what if a person decides to do it themselves. They plunk down $500 for an individual HPtuners software license that looks greek to 95% of people out there. Or even if they do know what's going on - they don't have the years and years of experience tuning all GM vehicles like we have.

Suddenly, our prices are starting to sound better and better. When you factor in customer service, the ability to borrow a PCM if need be, the years of experience - you see our prices are a value. If you can't see that, you obviously haven't been shopping around.

My prices are incredibly affordable for what you are getting. This isn't just changing one map, as much as you would like to believe. This is an ENTIRE custom tune tailored to your vehicle. On each tune I make around 50-60 changes impacting engine, transmission, speedometer, etc etc.

I won't even get into what it costs me to make this happen - you don't want to know my margin of profit after I've paid for the vehicle licensing, equipment, advertising, PCM's, research and development, shipping supplies, oh how the list goes on.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Because you don't know how "Thorough Tuning" is accomplished. You run it on the dyno to get the AFR probe output, etc.... Dyno tuning is not the same as putting a car on a dyno to only get horsepower and torque numbers. There is much more to the process.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Not so fast buddy, let's not compare what you are giving the members to a $500 Custom Tune or how much some custom tuning software costs that you are not giving them either.

So you are telling me that you are going in a making 50-60 changes that you have no idea of what the impact is and don't even have their vehicle there to test it?

Please make a believer out of me and explain these 50-60 changes? Don't worry, I am not asking for the number you input into each cell.

I would love to hear a report of how these tunes work towing a trailer, facing the wind in Summer heat.

Please tell me that you provide the customer a copy of this license and number that you are inlcuding in the cost?

This is too funny..... I am outta here - you guys can pay your hard earned money for this if you want.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

That's what research and development is for. After you tune about 20 or so Hummer H3's in your research & development time alone (not counting those after), you have a pretty damn good idea of what they need. Not to mention the hundreds of colorado/canyons I have tuned with the same engine. Not to mention the thousands of GM's we have done that taught us about the workings of a GM PCM or chip.


I have already mentioned in this thread the things that I change. If you think I'm going to list the tables I change, sorry, do your own research I am not going to spoon feed this to you.


What good does a license number do to a person who cannot use it?


Excellent, now we can get back on track instead with questions about tuning, instead of you calling people "turds" and talking about things you obviously have no clue about.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

About time:twak:

I wanna here more... Because I ordered mine this morning:excited:

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Sewie.....or someone else who knows me,
can you tell me why this "guy" is getting under my skin???

My bs detector is getting all haywire, am I getting all ruffled up over semantics, or am I on the right track??

Does he answer the questions? or does he do a little dance???

Thanks in advance....bebe

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

For one thing I'm not a guy, for another thing, I have been answering questions.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

So now where getting somewhere? So after 20 they are all the same? LOL, how about after the first one!!!!

I apologized for the turd comment early on, but the more you respond and avade the details, the more I know my original assumption of you was correct.

I have been around fuel injection and custom mapping a long time, and you even commented earlier and grouped me as a person in the know along with yourself. So don't back track now...

I don't need to know how to tune one as you have done as I am sure you are doing nothing more than copying others' maps and making a change for tire size. The tables are vast and comprehensive and if you can't even tell us which you are changing, I am assuming you don't know as you are copying it from another source plus a tire size change.

You are here to sell something which you should be paying for! I am here to share, learn and help others. I have profit to gain as you...

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

You can assume all that you want, I'm not telling you the tables that I change. Asking that is about as absurd as going to a restaurant and demanding that the chef tell you what ingredients he puts in his best seller. The amount is something you could deduce sooner or later. Why should tuning be any different? We worked incredibly hard where to get where we are today and you expect me to give all of my info away for free.


I'm not evading any reasonable questions - you are demanding that I tell you exactly what I change in these tunes. And for what reason I'm not even sure - you say you know so much about tuning it makes me wonder why you are asking me about it in the first place.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Great, so you and I can have it out chick to chick.......please tell me which question of mine you answered???


I've been polite up to this point. You are a potential vendor on this thread.

Are you Hummer owner???

How about the AWD question?

How about the additional gear on my Hummer question???

You are here to sell, not flip attitude, and tell people they are being rude when you dance around in your tutu.

You don't like....go somehwere else


And....the question above was not directed at you.....but in typical chick fashion....you answered. :OWNED:

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

PS.....if this is your style eveywhere "Just look at all my testimonials"....and getting defensive? You suck at sales. You might want to try a different approach.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

To the fellow H3'rs that have ordered this product:

I totally appreciate your opinion, and respect your choice to buy this product.

Please don't take anything I have said to this Woman as a personal attack on you.

Sorry guys, there was just something about it.....it's a chick thing.:o

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Why would we 'have it out'? I'm here to answer questions not fight.

I am not a Hummer owner.

You might have missed where I answered your question, here it is - post #44 in this thread:

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/s...0&postcount=44

As for the gear...yes the ordersheet asks all sorts of questions like that and also has a comment box at the bottom for other important information that you feel like you need to add.



I am not "flipping attitude", just defending myself. I don't care if someone is a buyer, seller, member, owner, etc. calling someone a "turd", like tomp did, was rude and out of line.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

I don't know what kind of 'chick thing' it is, sorry.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

You answered one of three. And you still have not answered the AWD part.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

You know exactly what I mean.

Re: Great results from PCM for Less tuning . . .
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by keliente
You will see graphs from the colorado/canyon, which shares the same engine. Your problem with the H3 is that the AWD is going to eat up a little more power, but that doesn't mean great gains can't be had. Like I said before...this isn't just like bolting on an exhaust and getting 10 hp and a cool sound at wide open throttle. This is something that benefits you during your entire drive cycle, whether you've got it matted to the floor or not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HummBebe
Awwww man, I almost went for it. Until I read this paragraph.

First the H3 is not AWD. There is a difference. PCM for less AND Rancho need to get this right before you will get an ounce of respect from me.

Splitting hairs....maybe.

Colorado/Canyon share the same engine, but from the factory they are tuned differently.

YOUR LINK IS TO A 2-3 YEAR OLD CANYON TUNE.

Please provide an updated tune...in private if you must.

teh proof is in teh puddin'.



Originally Posted by keliente
You're right - it is in 'teh puddin'. Look how many satisfied customers I have on this board and I don't even sponsor it yet :dancingbanana:




Quote:
Originally Posted by HummBebe
Nice....so no updated tune? Even a PM?


Originally Posted by keliente
I'm not sure what you mean by updated tune? I do each one as it comes in?



Quote:
Originally Posted by HummBebe
Meaning a graph with all those little squiggly lines on it..., that was done for an H3. Recently.

I can understand if you don't want to share proprietary information with the whole whirrled.

What about changing the shift points for hauling around a set of 35's, a roof rack, front winch bumper, winch, rock rail-side steps, 2 roof ladders and a rear bumper?

Can it do that? I'm really curious, I'm a girl, you know.....kinda dumb when it comes to all this techie stuff.



Originally Posted by keliente
Yes...the shift points are a large part of what we are doing with the transmission tuning. Some of our people on here have the 35's with the tune and tell us it makes a substantial difference.

I do not have any recent H3 graphs, sorry. The majority of truck folks (all trucks, not just H3) that stop by in person to get a tune aren't interested in ponying up the extra cash to get on the dyno. They want the seat of the pants difference...noticeable power, better shifting, etc etc and aren't really interested in knowing what it makes on the dyno.


Ok....


so now we are here:


Quote:
Originally Posted by HummBebe
Great, so you and I can have it out chick to chick.......please tell me which question of mine you answered???




Originally Posted by keliente
Why would we 'have it out'? I'm here to answer questions not fight.

I am not a Hummer owner.

You might have missed where I answered your question, here it is - post #44 in this thread:

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/s...0&postcount=44

As for the gear...yes the ordersheet asks all sorts of questions like that and also has a comment box at the bottom for other important information that you feel like you need to add.




Oh now you tell me....in other words, my vehicle would require a custom tune? How much is that?