P R O F I T $9.9 BILLION FOR 1 QUARTER.

ALL ARGUMENTS ARE BELONG TO IRRELEVANT

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poseur:
I notice that as soon as the commodities market clicks up a cent, it is reflected at the pump in 3 seconds. However, if it the market goes down 30 cents, the price at the pump doesn't go down for 3 weeks! $##$@@!#
It's because the station owners will raise the price of gas with the market even though the gas in their tanks was purchased at a lower price. Once they refill those tanks at the higher gas price, they cannot lower their price much and make a profit on the gas they are holding so they must keep the price up even after the pricing goes back down until they refill their tanks at the new lower price. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Station owners are working from tank load to tank load. EACH fuel delievery is paid for or has to be paid for buy wire transfer in less than 24hours. Most tanks at stations are 20,000gals and each station might have 3. 2 tanks of 87 and 1 tank of premium. Not a whole lot of stations can turn over 20,000gals in a day when the average is only 100,000 to 150,000gals a month. Sure 1 station might be able to turn over 1,000,000gals a month but it is very rare.

WTF?! Still $2.70 in NY

Whoever said pipelines are receiving aid to be rebuilt does'nt know what they are talking about. Pipelines are underground. They were taken out of service just before the huricanes hit because of anticipated damage to offshore facilities. The above ground stations were not severely damaged and were put back into sevice almost immediately. No aid was applied for or received, as pipelines are regulated on a cost of service basis by the FERC.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:

Have you been paying attention to their quarterly profit reports for the last couple of years? They have recorded RECORD profits alomst every quarter for quite some time now.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what? Let me get this straight. . . Those who invest in Exxon Mobile pony up the dough to do the research, do the drilling, get the oil, refine it, and get it to market. They take all the risks and the company does all the work. For their risk and effort, when demand is high (and it's never been higher), they get to charge what the market will pay (and India and China will PAY!).

But you, doing nothing to find, drill, recover, refine, or retail the oil somehow should get it cheap? The Exxon investors should forego their profit so you can drive around all you want without spending more money?

Man oh man. . . you must be VERY special!
Either that or a socialist. . .

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:

Have you been paying attention to their quarterly profit reports for the last couple of years? They have recorded RECORD profits alomst every quarter for quite some time now.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what? Let me get this straight. . . Those who invest in Exxon Mobile pony up the dough to do the research, do the drilling, get the oil, refine it, and get it to market. They take all the risks and the company does all the work. For their risk and effort, when demand is high (and it's never been higher), they get to charge what the market will pay (and India and China will PAY!).

But you, doing nothing to find, drill, recover, refine, or retail the oil somehow should get it cheap? The Exxon investors should forego their profit so you can drive around all you want without spending more money?

Man oh man. . . you must be VERY special!
Either that or a socialist. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I find that many "hard-core" conservatives become socialists the moment something affects their own wallet. Principaled, sincere, real conservatism requires one to be intellectually honest and accept the bad with the good that comes from a sincerely held and CONSISTENT belief system.

Sean

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ckhagman:
]

I would like to know what Exxon/Mobils ROI was on this 9.9 billion. i.e. if last years was 2% and this years was 2% then who really cares. But if this hear was significantly higher like 6% or more than it is a problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why is it a problem? Who are you, or who is anybody, to say how much profit a company should make? How much money do you make? How much of a pay raise did you get this year? Last year? Does anyone but your employer have a right to say if it's too much or too little?

How much money did you risk over the last X years to make sure gas gets to market? I'll bet that if you were heavily invested in XOM, you'd be singin' a different damn song. . .

The ability of a company to make a profit is NOT the point.

The point is about how we are all FORCED to pay MUCH HIGHER gas prices because of xyz reasons -- then to find out that those xyz reasons = bullsheit -- because this ONE company alone is earning $9.9 BILLION IN 1 QTR.

When Microsoft was deemed "too monopolistic" it got censured by the government. That was for a computer o/s software with lots of alternative CHOICES for the consumers (you can buy a Macintosh instead).

When Exxon earns $9.9B and the second company earns $9+B PROFIT/QUARTER ("cartel"??!) -- WHERE THE CONSUMERS HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BUY GAS TO LIVE (don't get semantic and bring up peanut-oil-powered cars ) -- where is the government intervention?

Here's a closer analogy:

If the bird flu virus becomes a rampage in the US, and Roche said "Hey! DEMAND IS UP!!" and charged $10,000 per tablet of Tamiflu and make $9.9B for that quarter -- do you think there will be a public outcry?

Summary:
I don't have a problem if I can CHOOSE to pay the price and make that company rich. But when I'm FORCED to pay the price,

Why so surprised with THIS pubic outcry?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:

I find that many "hard-core" conservatives become socialists the moment something affects their own wallet. Principaled, sincere, real conservatism requires one to be intellectually honest and accept the bad with the good that comes from a sincerely held and CONSISTENT belief system.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quite true. And sad when people allow self interests to influence principle.

Here's the thing. . . There is only one circumstance that I can imagine where one could find fault with Exxon. If, absent government interference either here or abroad, they were selling oil and gas around the world for $N and with no other costs involved, they were selling it to US customers for $Nx2 or $Nx3, that might be gouging. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, they're entitled to charge what the market will pay. The oil business is an expensive venture. . .they have a right to make a profit.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Finally:
The ability of a company to make a profit is NOT the point.

The point is about how we are all FORCED to pay MUCH HIGHER gas prices because of xyz reasons -- then to find out that those xyz reasons = bullsheit -- because this ONE company alone is earning $9.9 BILLION IN 1 QTR.

When Microsoft was deemed "too monopolistic" it got censured by the government. That was for a computer o/s software with lots of alternative CHOICES for the consumers (you can buy a Macintosh instead).

When Exxon earns $9.9B and the second company earns $9+B PROFIT/QUARTER ("cartel"??!) -- WHERE THE CONSUMERS HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BUY GAS TO LIVE (don't get semantic and bring up peanut-oil-powered cars ) -- where is the government intervention?

Here's a closer analogy:

If the bird flu virus becomes a rampage in the US, and Roche said "Hey! DEMAND IS UP!!" and charged $10,000 per tablet of Tamiflu and make $9.9B for that quarter -- do you think there will be a public outcry?

Summary:
I don't have a problem if I can CHOOSE to pay the price and make that company rich. But when I'm FORCED to pay the price,

Why so surprised with THIS pubic outcry? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stuff and nonsense. You're saying this in a Hummer forum, for Christ sake. You have all kinds of choices, as do I, as do most Americans. And Exxon doesn't have a 95% market share like Microsoft (which, by the way, I fully support even if they are a monopoly. They were smart enough and tough enough to market a product that everyone now uses. They deserve to reap the benefits).

You want to blame someone? Blame the government. We still aren't drilling in parts of Alaska or in parts of the Gulf. We haven't built a new refinery in 25 years and government regulations make it a long and expensive process to complete. And if Exxon made a $10 billion profit, I wonder how much a profit was made by federal, state, and local governments that also take a cut of what you and I pay.

And if you really believe you are FORCED to pay, you are seriously deluding yourself. You are paying it because you want to. . .just like I am. I could drive my Stealth and get 2.5 time the gas milage I get in my SUT. Or I could buy a hybrid or I could ride a bike. So could you. . .

Forced. . .what a joke! One would think you were living in the USSR. . .

Gas Taxes are fixed per gallon and not based on a percentage. So when gas prices rise, the gov't doesn't gain.

When a company makes more than Microsoft & Walmart COMBINED in a QTR when they were complaining about damage to facilities and BLAH Freakin BLAH, then I'll call BULLSH!T

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:
Gas Taxes are fixed per gallon and not based on a percentage. So when gas prices rise, the gov't doesn't gain.

When a company makes more than Microsoft & Walmart COMBINED in a QTR when they were complaining about damage to facilities and BLAH Freakin BLAH, then I'll call BULLSH!T </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can’t believe people are so freaked out about big profits. It’s the American way. That is why business exist, to maximize profits. I just say they are well run corporations.

Now we have dumb ass members of congress taking about a windfall profits tax. Isn’t that great, we are going to let the government decide when a company makes too much money.

If you don’t like the price of gas don’t buy it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:
Gas Taxes are fixed per gallon and not based on a percentage. So when gas prices rise, the gov't doesn't gain.

When a company makes more than Microsoft & Walmart COMBINED in a QTR when they were complaining about damage to facilities and BLAH Freakin BLAH, then I'll call BULLSH!T </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh course you would. . .unless you had invested the money or done the work over the long haul to make it possible. And all the fact that gas taxes are a fixed amount means is that taxes become a smaller percentage at the pump. XOM is still paying corporate taxes which are a percentage of profit, not to mention the income taxes paid by their employees on the money they earn.

In 1971, a pack of cigarettes and a gallon of gas both cost about 35 cents. Cigarettes now cost about $5 a pack and a gallon of gas seems to have settled in at about $2.50. Compared to the increases in the cost of butts, milk, bread. . .even the cost of cars (I bought a new Mustang II in 74 and it cost me $4000. . .I don't own a car now that cost less than $40,000 new), gas is still a bargain.

Get over it. . .

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:
Gas Taxes are fixed per gallon and not based on a percentage. So when gas prices rise, the gov't doesn't gain.

When a company makes more than Microsoft & Walmart COMBINED in a QTR when they were complaining about damage to facilities and BLAH Freakin BLAH, then I'll call BULLSH!T </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh course you would. . .unless you had invested the money or done the work over the long haul to make it possible. And all the fact that gas taxes are a fixed amount means is that taxes become a smaller percentage at the pump. XOM is still paying corporate taxes which are a percentage of profit, not to mention the income taxes paid by their employees on the money they earn.

In 1971, a pack of cigarettes and a gallon of gas both cost about 35 cents. Cigarettes now cost about $5 a pack and a gallon of gas seems to have settled in at about $2.50. Compared to the increases in the cost of butts, milk, bread. . .even the cost of cars (I bought a new Mustang II in 74 and it cost me $4000. . .I don't own a car now that cost less than $40,000 new), gas is still a bargain.

Get over it. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not against big profits or looking for any more laws. I think the current laws against collusion should be enforced in this situation.

When a company like Walmart or Microsoft dominates a market through competitive practices (i.e. volume purchasing and lower prices than their comp) that is one thing. When the 4 oil companies collude and decide to stick it to EVERY American, not just the ones that can afford a HUMMER or several $40k cars then that;s just wrong.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:

I am not against big profits or looking for any more laws. I think the current laws against collusion should be enforced in this situation.

When a company like Walmart or Microsoft dominates a market through competitive practices (i.e. volume purchasing and lower prices than their comp) that is one thing. When the 4 oil companies collude and decide to stick it to EVERY American, not just the ones that can afford a HUMMER or several $40k cars then that;s just wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Collusion? Really? Interesting. . .So, over the last 35 years or so, when the price of gas has gone up, would you say that the oil companies are in collusion? If so, how about when the price goes down as it always does to some extent?

Your suggestion that the oil companies got together and agreed to boost the prices for a period of about a month are patently rediculous. If they were agreeing to raise prices, then why not just keep them at $3 a gallon? Or $3.50? Did they collude to keep the prices at a buck a few years ago? Every time the price of gas goes up, people scream that the oil companies get together and impose high prices, but if they had the power to do that, why do the prices always go back down again? Why not keep the price of gas and heating oil high all the time?

Like I said, gas is cheap by comparison to almost anything you can buy now compared to 30 years ago. Oil companies aren't charities. . .oil is a market based commodity. Some folks seem to think that, along with "privacy," you can find some kind of kind of right to cheap gas in the US Consitution. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but unless you want to refine the oil yourself (which you do have a right to do), you've got to pay the market rate.

Collusion...I know it will never be investigated or proven. But I'm surprised that you find it such a stretch. And No, in the 70s there actually were fuel shortages. Thus the supply side of the equation caused prices to increase. In the past couple months supply and demand has been constant (other than a few specific areas). From the financial stmts there doesn't seem to be any reason for these latest price spikes other than pure greed.

What a bunch of F'ing idiots. You are simply trying to win an argument instead of offering anything of real value to the discussion. Trying to make things personal. "It's a Hummer forum..." "you don't have to buy the fuel".

Just F'ing idiots. Everything..... absolutely everything in the US economy is affected by the price of fuel. Everything you buy from the sandpaper you wipe your butt with to the Evian water you drink is affected by the price of fuel. If you don't understand that there are only a handful of oil companies that directly and daily control fuel prices, then move on, you don't have enough knowledge to participate in this discussion.

The oil market of the past 3-5 years is nothing near the oil market it was before. Why in the hell are gas prices dropping now? Because they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar, nothing else. There were no production increases or anything else to explain the $0.25 drop in regular gasoline except pressure was starting to be applied. Did a correlating drop in diesel fuel happen? NO! Why? Because trucking companies are passing the buck along to the consumer right now and are not crying as much, except for the little businesses that don't matter.

Let me say this one more time for those of you that don't realize this. Exxon/Mobil receives about $25,000,000,000 ($25B) every year in some form of subsidies from the United States Government. So, if you don't understand why this argument needs to be had then there is no one intelligent enough to explain it to you.

If you still don't get it and think they are simply trying to make a profit. Exxon/Mobil is sitting on over $30BILLION is liquid cash. CASH!!! If you can't add all of this up and see that a publicly traded company that provides a commercial necessity to the US economy, who also receives ridiculous amounts of subsidy from the government, and then is able to nationally increase the price of fuel in the matter of a day, then..... ding, your fries are done!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
What a bunch of F'ing idiots. You are simply trying to win an argument instead of offering anything of real value to the discussion. Trying to make things personal. "It's a Hummer forum..." "you don't have to buy the fuel".

Just F'ing idiots. Everything..... absolutely everything in the US economy is affected by the price of fuel. Everything you buy from the sandpaper you wipe your butt with to the Evian water you drink is affected by the price of fuel. If you don't understand that there are only a handful of oil companies that directly and daily control fuel prices, then move on, you don't have enough knowledge to participate in this discussion.

The oil market of the past 3-5 years is nothing near the oil market it was before. Why in the hell are gas prices dropping now? Because they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar, nothing else. There were no production increases or anything else to explain the $0.25 drop in regular gasoline except pressure was starting to be applied. Did a correlating drop in diesel fuel happen? NO! Why? Because trucking companies are passing the buck along to the consumer right now and are not crying as much, except for the little businesses that don't matter.

Let me say this one more time for those of you that don't realize this. Exxon/Mobil receives about $25,000,000,000 ($25B) every year in some form of subsidies from the United States Government. So, if you don't understand why this argument needs to be had then there is no one intelligent enough to explain it to you.

If you still don't get it and think they are simply trying to make a profit. Exxon/Mobil is sitting on over $30BILLION is liquid cash. CASH!!! If you can't add all of this up and see that a publicly traded company that provides a commercial necessity to the US economy, who also receives ridiculous amounts of subsidy from the government, and then is able to nationally increase the price of fuel in the matter of a day, then..... ding, your fries are done! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


SO ENDETH THE LESSON.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Blah blah...crappity crap...never got into this thread so I didn't read it all but I caught this: then..... ding, your fries are done! and LMAO- love CP </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
Forced. . .what a joke! One would think you were living in the USSR. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What's got to do with the Hummer? No matter what you drive, you need gas, no? If you are not "forced" to buy gas, to work, to live -- and have another secret (non gas) source of power for your daily driver, do share If not, then..... ding, your fries are done!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ted:
If you don’t like the price of gas don’t buy it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> No matter what you drive, you need gas, no? If you are not "forced" to buy gas, to work, to live -- and have another secret (non gas) source of power for your daily driver, do share If not, then..... ding, your fries are done!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Exxon/Mobil receives about $25,000,000,000 ($25B) every year in some form of subsidies from the United States Government. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BTW, were did you get this figure from?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Finally:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
Forced. . .what a joke! One would think you were living in the USSR. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What's got to do with the Hummer? No matter what you drive, you need gas, no? If you are not "forced" to buy gas, to work, to live -- and have another secret (non gas) source of power for your daily driver, do share If not, then..... ding, your fries are done!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ted:
If you don’t like the price of gas don’t buy it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> No matter what you drive, you need gas, no? If you are not "forced" to buy gas, to work, to live -- and have another secret (non gas) source of power for your daily driver, do share If not, then..... ding, your fries are done! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not the one pissing and moaning about gas prices, and Exxon's profits.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
What a bunch of F'ing idiots. You are simply trying to win an argument instead of offering anything of real value to the discussion. Trying to make things personal. "It's a Hummer forum..." "you don't have to buy the fuel".

Just F'ing idiots. Everything..... absolutely everything in the US economy is affected by the price of fuel. Everything you buy from the sandpaper you wipe your butt with to the Evian water you drink is affected by the price of fuel. If you don't understand that there are only a handful of oil companies that directly and daily control fuel prices, then move on, you don't have enough knowledge to participate in this discussion.

The oil market of the past 3-5 years is nothing near the oil market it was before. Why in the hell are gas prices dropping now? Because they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar, nothing else. There were no production increases or anything else to explain the $0.25 drop in regular gasoline except pressure was starting to be applied. Did a correlating drop in diesel fuel happen? NO! Why? Because trucking companies are passing the buck along to the consumer right now and are not crying as much, except for the little businesses that don't matter.

Let me say this one more time for those of you that don't realize this. Exxon/Mobil receives about $25,000,000,000 ($25B) every year in some form of subsidies from the United States Government. So, if you don't understand why this argument needs to be had then there is no one intelligent enough to explain it to you.

If you still don't get it and think they are simply trying to make a profit. Exxon/Mobil is sitting on over $30BILLION is liquid cash. CASH!!! If you can't add all of this up and see that a publicly traded company that provides a commercial necessity to the US economy, who also receives ridiculous amounts of subsidy from the government, and then is able to nationally increase the price of fuel in the matter of a day, then..... ding, your fries are done! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems clear that you are the right one to identify F'ing idiots from the content of your post. . .and your ability to relate a ding sound to finished fast food obviously comes from recent personal experience.

Check the commodity market for futures prices, Einstien. Check the world demand increases over the last few years, especially in India and China. Pick up the Wall Street Journal or, God Forbid, read a book. It's a global economy and we're not the only ones consuming oil. Regardless of how quickly they were able to get refineries back on line, the fact that 15 or 20 of them were off-line reduced supply. . .and that increases price. Distiribution was disrupted and that reduced supply. . .and that increases price. And why are prices going back down? The refineries are back on line and distribution has been squared away. That increases supply and reduces the price. It's called economics 101.

My point is now and has been that the price of gas is what it is. . . and it's still cheap by any measure. And I don't care if XOM is sitting on 100 billion in cash. They earn it and they are entitled to sit on it or flush it down the john if they wish. You don't like the price of gas? You think they are all crooks? Then open your own oil company and sell gas for a nickel a gallon.

I'm an energy trader and believer in free markets. Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says. All I can say is that the market is high right now because it is pricing in the following:

1)Political unrest in some of the largest oil producing countries in the world. Read Russia, Middle East, Nigeria, Venuezuela, etc...
2)World Daily Supply/Demand balances for Crude Oil have continued to shrink.
3)Location of some of the largest US oil and natural gas production is offshore. It just happens to reside in the Gulf of Mexico and for 6 months out of every year is the target of Mother Nature which has the ability to literally wipe out or severly reduce production out there with just a few days notice.
4)Location and capacity of refineries. Again, a majority of our refining capacity in the US is also located on the coastlines of the Gulf of Mexico and is subject to the same exposure as our production.
5)US refining capacity is limited and outdated and is subject to frequent downtime.
5)US pipeline system is also limted and outdated.

The thing is, we have the technology nowadays to help alleviate alot of this but it is just taking time to get production from this new technology brought online. Coal Gasification Technology for Natural Gas, Canadian Tar Sands for Crude Oil, LNG imports for Natural Gas, etc...

We have the ability to build safer nuclear power plant and cleaner coal fired power plants which both would help help alleviate alot of the strain on natural gas supplies. People forget that back in '98 and '99 we had huge power shortages and because of this, alot of natural gas combined cycle power generation was built.

We have the ability with biodiesel and ethanol to help supplment the refining capacity with unleaded gas, diesel and heating oil.

We continue to build LNG terminals on the various coastlines to bring in this cheap form of natural gas. The issue there is that we need additional pipeline infrastructure inland to help get this natural gas to market. Same thing with coal, we need a more efficient railline system to get coal to market.

Ultimately, we either have to get energy prices high enough that you have permanent demand destruction and the supply/demand balances fall back in-line or people are going to have to come to grips that we are going to have to drill for oil and natural gas in politically sensitive areas, and people are going to have to allow us to build infrastructure in "their backyard".

Everyone forgets that it was only 4 years ago when we had $18 crude and $1.90 natural gas and gasoline and diesel were less than $1.25/gal...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
I'm an energy trader and believer in free markets. Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says.

<snip>

Everyone forgets that it was only 4 years ago when we had $18 crude and $1.90 natural gas and gasoline and diesel were less than $1.25/gal... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo. I think that offers something "of real value to the discussion" and wins the argument at the same time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
I'm an energy trader and believer in free markets. Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says.

<snip>

Everyone forgets that it was only 4 years ago when we had $18 crude and $1.90 natural gas and gasoline and diesel were less than $1.25/gal... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo. I think that offers something "of real value to the discussion" and wins the argument at the same time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>First it doesn't address the price at the pump at all and secondly, I think you must be above your pay grade here. "wins the argument." Is that what you are trying to do?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Dogg, respectfully this is simply not true. When the price at the pump can be raised due to the fear of future "production" disruption, this is not being controlled by supply/demand.

When Opec can artificially control the price/barrell by lowering production, that does not follow typical supply/demand. World supply has not magically jump 100% in 4 years yet prices at the pump have, with nothing but "fear" from the war as the reason for the increase.

Any other business that saw a 100% increase in retail cost in such a short period due to supply/demand would have experience a shortfall in product available, which would cause the increase. We have had no gas shortages. Even when Katrina hit there were no shortages due to supply. The only shortages created were due to lack of electricity to fill the trucks so they could get to the stations. The facility here in MS had enough to continue it's normal supply for nearly a month without any additional refining. This why the release of strategic petroleum reserves was just not a big deal and would have very little effect.

Speaking of 4 years ago. That was after all of the mega-mergers of the oil companies took place. The industry was found to have been price fixing even then by cutting refining production and holding back delivery of produced fuels to get prices higher. Again, in 4 years demand has not increased 100%, supply and prices are being controlled by the fewer larger, merged oil companies just like OPEC can control the price for a barrel of crude. In the US, though, we have anti-trust laws to supposedly guard against this.

Whether collusion is occuring amongst the major oil companies (I wouldn't be surprised) is one thing, but price-fixing is definitely occuring and it is totally and completely outside the parameters of common supply/demand.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
I'm an energy trader and believer in free markets. Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says.

<snip>

Everyone forgets that it was only 4 years ago when we had $18 crude and $1.90 natural gas and gasoline and diesel were less than $1.25/gal... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo. I think that offers something "of real value to the discussion" and wins the argument at the same time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FreeorDie,

You are wasting your time here. It's like having a college professor lecturing quantum physics to a kindergarten class. Discretion is the better part of valor. You should smile, surrender, and move on.

Sean

Good mornin, Bond!

I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Well written, you ****ing idiot.

Sean

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Well written, you ****ing idiot.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Speaking of f'ing idiot. Did we get confirmation? Does dude look like a lady?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>..

thanks for making me laugh again. keep them coming.

I wasn't aware of the time restriction for opinions on members. Should I wait another couple of years to put an opinion out there?

From a gentlemanly standpoint visual confirmation is fine. No need to report tactile confirmation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Well written, you ****ing idiot.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Speaking of f'ing idiot. Did we get confirmation? Does dude look like a lady? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I may die later, but check out the last posts in the Hummer Hater thread.......

Sean

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>..

thanks for making me laugh again. keep them coming.

I wsan't aware of the time restriction for opinions on members. Should I wait another couple of years to put an opinion out there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No restriction on opinion, just trying to help you out on some of the whys and hows. You can have your opinion, it's just that it won't have any validity.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
From a gentlemanly standpoint visual confirmation is fine. No need to report tactile confirmation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I will not, repeat, will not, report tactile confirmation if and when it does or has happened.

But take a look at her pics. OMG

Sean
ps - Jen, I love you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>DING!!! ("We have a winner!!! kindda ding )

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ted:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Finally:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ted:
If you don’t like the price of gas don’t buy it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> No matter what you drive, you need gas, no? If you are not "forced" to buy gas, to work, to live -- and have another secret (non gas) source of power for your daily driver, do share If not, then..... ding, your fries are done! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not the one pissing and moaning about gas prices, and Exxon's profits. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No, you're not. Just like I'm not the one to take it up the ass and say "YESSA! MO'SAH!!" ..... ding, your fries are done!