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-   -   OK, now that's just mean Rush! (http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21609)

Wisha Haddan H3 10-27-2006 07:52 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARAGON
So what?

Credibility is what.:confused:

Exactly. Michael J Fox has credibility. He actually has Parkinsons. He has been suffering from it for years. Some days are better and some are worse, but it will never go away until a cure is developed.

When Rush calls MJF's credibility into question, he only discredits himself, and that's what is harming the GOP. Thank you for helping me make my point.

PARAGON 10-27-2006 08:10 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3
Exactly. Michael J Fox has credibility. He actually has Parkinsons. He has been suffering from it for years. Some days are better and some are worse, but it will never go away until a cure is developed.

When Rush calls MJF's credibility into question, he only discredits himself, and that's what is harming the GOP. Thank you for helping me make my point.
I didn't and that wasn't even a good attempt at misdirection.

You don't have credibility when you are obviously pandering to the TV spot for political reasons. It's pretty simple. He was obviously faking it, no questions. If he didn't take meds "just for show", it's the same as faking. It all lacks credibility. At no other times is he shown to be so uncontrollable, so the Fox argument is moot.

Rush Limbaugh simple spoke what everyone else was thinking.



Anything past the fact that Michael J Fox allowed himself to be puppeted for political purposes is nothing more than fodder.

PARAGON 10-27-2006 08:12 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3
Exactly. Michael J Fox has credibility.
Learn comprehension skills. You asked the question.

He has no credibility. He lost credibility for anyone with the disease because he flopped all over the place in a manner inconsistent with anything else he has been shown to do anytime prior to or since that one political ad.

Ever think that it might have taken more than one take to get it right?

It's ludicrous to assume that it's legit.

PARAGON 10-27-2006 08:35 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 

usetosellhummer 10-27-2006 08:57 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
So what if i do have a small johnson, what's that got to do with things

PARAGON 10-27-2006 09:10 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by usetosellhummer
So what if i do have a small johnson, what's that got to do with things

why is it called a "johnson"

did "johnson & johnson" invent it

does it have something to do with pedophelia? re: john's son

was some guy named johnson being a dick

Wisha Haddan H3 10-27-2006 09:40 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARAGON
I didn't and that wasn't even a good attempt at misdirection.

You don't have credibility when you are obviously pandering to the TV spot for political reasons. How can he lack credibility when he actually does have Parkinsons? It's been diagnosed for years. It's pretty simple. He was obviously faking it, no questions. And you know this as a fact, without doubt, no questions asked, because of your firsthand knowledge, your extensive medical training or your personal experience with Parkinsons disease? If he didn't take meds "just for show", it's the same as faking. Hardly the same as a healthy actor faking Parkinsons symptoms. MJF actually has Parkinsons but can afford ridiculously expensive medication to live a fuller life. Even if they filmed him on a bad day or if he went off meds for a couple of days to demonstrate what it's like, his condition is still real. It has not gone away and will only get worse over time. It all lacks credibility. At no other times is he shown to be so uncontrollable, so the Fox argument is moot. You and Rush haven't seen him at all other times. He takes medication to reduce symptoms and does multiple takes on set to get the scenes right for his acting career.

Rush Limbaugh simple spoke what everyone else was thinking. Not everyone else ... just those offended by the political import of the tv spot. A lot of people were thinking, omg I had no idea parkinsons made you shake like that. I'm sure some people even did some research and discovered that Parkinsons can be even more severe than the symptoms MJF displayed on camera.

Anything past the fact that Michael J Fox allowed himself to be puppeted for political purposes is nothing more than fodder. If he believes in the need for stem cell research, he's an activist ... not a puppet. You may as well call Christopher Reeve a puppet for pushing spinal cord research or Yul Brynner for asking people to stop smoking back in the 80s as he died from lung cancer.

MJF is asking for help on a real medical condition. He sees hope in embryonic stem cell research and wants to overturn the ban upheld by the current administration. Rush Limbaugh and other republican pundits aren't going to help him, so of course he's working with the democrats.

That this is all happening in a political environment doesn't discredit him or the need for a cure. Politics is the only venue to modify or remove the political moratorium on embryonic stem cell research.
.

BlueHUMMERH2 10-27-2006 09:53 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop

Rochester, NY (LifeNews.com) -- Scientists working with embryonic stem cell research on animals reconfirmed what pro-life advocates have been saying for years about it. Researcher Steven Goldman and colleagues at the University of Rochester Medical Center said injecting embryonic stem cells into the brains of patients with Parkinson's disease would cause tumors.


Goldman's team used human embryonic stem cells obtained by killing days-old unborn children that were grown in a special chemical used to coax them into becoming brain cells.

The team killed the rats before they could determine that the tumors that appeared to be growing actually finished appearing and they said that any embryonic stem cell treatments on humans, which has never been tried, would have to be closely monitored.


http://www.lifenews.com/bio1810.html

Not sure this is exactly a good article as evidence towards the case of tumors. The authors obviously are biased. I'd like to see an article from an actual peer-reviewed medical journal before drawing conclusions.

BlueHUMMERH2 10-27-2006 10:08 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n2128188.shtml


Quote:
Originally Posted by CBS News and MJF
"The irony is that I was too medicated. I was dyskinesic," Fox told Couric. "Because the thing about … being symptomatic is that it's not comfortable. No one wants to be symptomatic; it's like being hit with a hammer."

His body visibly wracked by tremors, Fox appears in a political ad touting Missouri Democratic Senate candidate Claire McCaskill's stance in favor of embryonic stem cell research. That prompted Limbaugh to speculate that Fox was "either off his medication or acting."

Fox told Couric, "At this point now, if I didn't take medication I wouldn't be able to speak."

Tardive Dyskinesia

Quote:
Originally Posted by National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke
What is Tardive Dyskinesia?
Tardive dyskinesia is a neurological syndrome caused by the long-term use of neuroleptic drugs. Neuroleptic drugs are generally prescribed for psychiatric disorders, as well as for some gastrointestinal and neurological disorders. Tardive dyskinesia is characterized by repetitive, involuntary, purposeless movements. Features of the disorder may include grimacing, tongue protrusion, lip smacking, puckering and pursing, and rapid eye blinking. Rapid movements of the arms, legs, and trunk may also occur. Involuntary movements of the fingers may appear as though the patient is playing an invisible guitar or piano.

BlueHUMMERH2 10-27-2006 10:19 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
As for the "Tumors" article:

http://www.nature.com/news/2006/0610...061016-16.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nature.com / Nature Medicine Journal
But there could be alarming side effects. Each stem-cell transplant also contained cells that had failed to become neurons, and which remained undifferentiated. These cells keep dividing, and can turn into tumours, says Goldman. (The rats in the study were killed before any such tumours developed.)

Wisha Haddan H3 10-27-2006 10:20 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2
Not sure this is exactly a good article as evidence towards the case of tumors. The authors obviously are biased. I'd like to see an article from an actual peer-reviewed medical journal before drawing conclusions.

Good point, blue.

As with any other research, medical research is a process of trial and error. Just because Harvard researchers found indications of tumors or pre-cancerous growth doesn?t mean that embryonic stem cell research is a total failure. It only means that our current mechanism to control embryonic cell development (and prevent malignant or parasitic growth) needs work. Setbacks are inherent in research, and failure down one avenue will lead to success in another.

But even treatments proven to be effective can be risky. Many drugs and treatment protocols are controversial at first because of risks and side effects, like radiation and chemotherapy. People suffered and died while doctors learned how to dose and properly target the cancers. Imagine if we had halted research on these treatments because of the health risks ... or because of moral concerns over using "human guinea pigs"? or because a religious group had undue influence in Congress.

Wisha Haddan H3 10-27-2006 10:55 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
imo, the moratorium on embryonic stem cell research should be lifted. Researchers merely want access to all legally available embryonic material. If they can get it from cord blood, they’ll take it. If someone miscarries in a hospital, that’ll do. If someone has a legal abortion, they want access.

These scientists aren’t advocating abortion. They’re not saying we need to kill more babies so they can get more stem cells. People are already getting legal abortions and the embryos are getting thrown away. This research ban prevents researchers from making something good out of something terrible.

Think of stem cell collection as a form of organ donation. Would you outlaw organ donation because some people don't like the idea or believe it desecrates the human body? No. Organ transplants save, lengthen and improve lives. Stem cell treatments could do the same and more in the future.

h2co-pilot 10-27-2006 11:08 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3
imo, the moratorium on embryonic stem cell research should be lifted. Researchers merely want access to all legally available embryonic material. If they can get it from cord blood, they’ll take it. If someone miscarries in a hospital, that’ll do. If someone has a legal abortion, they want access.

These scientists aren’t advocating abortion. They’re not saying we need to kill more babies so they can get more stem cells. People are already getting legal abortions and the embryos are getting thrown away. This research ban prevents researchers from making something good out of something terrible.

Think of stem cell collection as a form of organ donation. Would you outlaw organ donation because some people don't like the idea or believe it desecrates the human body? No. Organ transplants save, lengthen and improve lives. Stem cell treatments could do the same and more in the future.

Organ donors normally indicate that with a "Y" on their drivers license. People need to get sick and die sometimes- it's nature and no one can live forever. Lets work on passing assisted suicide for those really suffering.

But yeah, next time a big hurricane is coming- lets hurl a bunch of old people at it and see if it slows it down. We aren't sure if it will stop the hurricane or prevent damage but lets try it anyway. :D:D:D

Can everyone stfu?-really. No one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject and it has been agreed that MJF was bobbing more than usual.

kthanxbye

BlueHUMMERH2 10-27-2006 11:33 PM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
I think we were just going for "No More Bullsh1t". Or in O'Reily lingo, "No Spin Zone."

Wisha Haddan H3 10-28-2006 12:04 AM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by h2co-pilot
Lets work on passing assisted suicide for those really suffering.

I agree with that. People should be able to die with dignity. And until then, they should be able to live well.

Mrs.ssippi 10-28-2006 12:32 AM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by h2co-pilot
Organ donors normally indicate that with a "Y" on their drivers license. People need to get sick and die sometimes- it's nature and no one can live forever. Lets work on passing assisted suicide for those really suffering.

But yeah, next time a big hurricane is coming- lets hurl a bunch of old people at it and see if it slows it down. We aren't sure if it will stop the hurricane or prevent damage but lets try it anyway. :D:D:D

Can everyone stfu?-really. No one is going to change anyone's mind on the subject and it has been agreed that MJF was bobbing more than usual.

kthanxbye
Help, I'm bobbing!:giggling: Sorry, it had to be said.

Steve - SanJose 10-28-2006 01:16 AM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
And Rush might have mixed his meds that day (the RX and street drugs) with a drinkie....

Dennis Lorenz 10-28-2006 04:19 AM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
What a bunch of weak fluff-filled arguments for what is being talked about as the biggest Democratic goof of the year so far.

They screwed up. Whomever told MJF to act out the effects of his illness to pander to the voters in MO is getting reamed out right now. MJF lost all credibility as a spokesperson because he was not genuine about something that is so heart-wrenching and effects so many others.

Regardless of the fact that, as others pointed out, ebryionic stem cells are not the end all that the media makes it out to be. Stem cells harvested in other ways have proven to be, if nothing else, very similar.

For all of you crying about letting the scientists do what they want, where is all of the research on embryonic stem cell success on animals?

BlueHUMMERH2 10-28-2006 04:26 AM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Lorenz
What a bunch of weak fluff-filled arguments for what is being talked about as the biggest Democratic goof of the year so far.

They screwed up. Whomever told MJF to act out the effects of his illness to pander to the voters in MO is getting reamed out right now. MJF lost all credibility as a spokesperson because he was not genuine about something that is so heart-wrenching and effects so many others.

Regardless of the fact that, as others pointed out, ebryionic stem cells are not the end all that the media makes it out to be. Stem cells harvested in other ways have proven to be, if nothing else, very similar.

For all of you crying about letting the scientists do what they want, where is all of the research on embryonic stem cell success on animals?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n2128188.shtml


Quote:
Originally Posted by CBS News and MJF
"The irony is that I was too medicated. I was dyskinesic," Fox told Couric. "Because the thing about … being symptomatic is that it's not comfortable. No one wants to be symptomatic; it's like being hit with a hammer."

His body visibly wracked by tremors, Fox appears in a political ad touting Missouri Democratic Senate candidate Claire McCaskill's stance in favor of embryonic stem cell research. That prompted Limbaugh to speculate that Fox was "either off his medication or acting."

Fox told Couric, "At this point now, if I didn't take medication I wouldn't be able to speak."

Tardive Dyskinesia

Quote:
Originally Posted by National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke
What is Tardive Dyskinesia?
Tardive dyskinesia is a neurological syndrome caused by the long-term use of neuroleptic drugs. Neuroleptic drugs are generally prescribed for psychiatric disorders, as well as for some gastrointestinal and neurological disorders. Tardive dyskinesia is characterized by repetitive, involuntary, purposeless movements. Features of the disorder may include grimacing, tongue protrusion, lip smacking, puckering and pursing, and rapid eye blinking. Rapid movements of the arms, legs, and trunk may also occur. Involuntary movements of the fingers may appear as though the patient is playing an invisible guitar or piano.

BlueHUMMERH2 10-28-2006 04:38 AM
Re: OK, now that's just mean Rush!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Lorenz

For all of you crying about letting the scientists do what they want, where is all of the research on embryonic stem cell success on animals?

As for why you haven't seen any public applications, they are to date either too expensive, or results are still being kept confidential until enough data is gathered to present a scientifically sound conclusion that will stand up to extensive peer review. I imagine applications in animals is significantly different from that of human systems, hence the lack of results.

Additionally, lacking government funding, this research has to be done entirely in the private sector.

And here's the research articles that do exist:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/gquery/g...nic+stem+cells


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