Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Who had it repaired to their satisfaction.:p The problem is no one got it fixed.There saying there is no fix they cant do nothing.
Thats why Im trying to get help from a MIA fild rep.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

:p :p :p f5

In this post you said the tech said it was coming from the brakes. They obviously have no idea. But it is their job to figure it out.

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/s...8&postcount=49

The Field Rep is avoiding you. Plain and simple. Or, someone has not been honest with you and actually contacted him.

Just tell them you want it fixed, now, please.

That's why an attorney would help. They know the laws and can blither blather the demand for satifaction or else. Because they identified it as the brakes, you could be in a potentially dangerous situation blah blah blah.

Squeaky wheel get the grease. Get assertive. I would never wait more than 24 hours for a call back.

I make my priority list the Harvard way every day. So do they. If you are not getting a call back, you are not making the list. If you are not making the list, they don't even know you exist.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

I beleve F5 problem was not the same.:p UU :p

It has to be the brakes they replaced the pads and cut rotors at 12,000 miles noise came back 6,000 miles later.I now have 22,000 on it.

Im trying for new rotors/pads but they wont authorize it without the field rep.
I dont know what the f*cks going on

I got to see what the serv manager says tommorow.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Tell him the Queen of the 3bies said to QUIT FAWKING OFF :D

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

My biggest problem with this entire scenario (other than GM not getting the field rep out) is that there is no problem with the rear brakes that appears anywhere on warranty reports. These are not new style brakes, they have been around for many years. Rear pads, even on a large H3, should last for many moons (at least 50K). Rear brakes only do about 20% of the work when braking and going forward, unless a person does nothing but panic stops.

My noise at first was diagnosed as rear brakes. They raised the vehicle and disassembled the brakes and found no relation to the noise. They then went after the drivetrain, discovered the noise in the t/case, replaced it, and no more noise.

I can't sit here in my recliner and say it is definitely the brakes, or the t/case. I just know my sounds were similar to your sounds.

On the other hand, I still agree with Bebe. It has gone on too long now, and someone has to step forward and discover exactly what the problem is and fix it. If that takes an attorney to write a letter, or an appointment with an arbitrator, go for it. It appears, even on this site, there are only a few with this problem.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

I finally get a call on tuesday from the CS manager from Gm,she took over the file and said she was sorry for any delays reaching the field rep (since 10/22/06)She said I will get something done by the end of the week.
Today I get a call from the dealer sevice manager saying I have a appointment with the field rep on 01/05/07 at 10:30 Am.:dancingbanana:

Hopefully he finds the problem and authorizes a fix.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Please keep us informed. I'm getting close to 12000 miles and the BRAKE GROAN is still in my YELLOW H-3 but not the GRAY H-3.

RYD

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Mine originaly started around 12,000 miles.
YRD Did your dealer look at it yet?
New brakes and cutting rotors is only temporary fix.
Im hoping they will replace the rotors and brakes or whatever has to be done to fix it properly.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

fourfourto, you're not going to believe this, but my grinding/groan sound has gone away. I have made a couple of hard, fast stops recently going downhill as someone tried to cut me off .. and noooooo groan. In my own mind, it's almost like the pads 'reset' themselves. Remember .. the last dealer told me they cut the pads in a diamond shape?? I keep thinking it's going to come back. Can't wait to hear what you find out about your on Jan. 5th! Don't forget to post whatever you find out.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

I give you a week before you post its back :beerchug:


Funny I was thinking the noise would stop at some point before Jan 5th.:giggling: :shhh: Dont jinks me ,hopefully I can do the driving(:rant: DEATH RIDE) so I will give him the full effect of the GRrrr Grr grr.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

I have been reading this thread for a long time now and feel it's time to jump in. We have had our H3 for over a year now (13,000 miles) and almost from the beginning the rear brakes have made the groaning noise. Seems that the RR is the worst. Wife and kids have been disgusted that I "won't take it in and get it fixed". I have never had any luck with any GM dealer being able to fix anything other than a part that was physically broken in half or a car that wasn't running. The last thing I want is to have my expensive OEM rotors turned down as a temporary fix.

My mechanical engineering background tells me the brakes aren't going to fail, they just have a systemic design flaw. I keep hearing people tied to GM stating that rear brake "groan" is inherent in the H3. That may be correct. Another correct statement is that rear brake "groan" is NOT inherent in a quality designed and manufactured vehicle. How many cars have rear brake groan? None of the fifty or so cars that I have driven in my life.

I understand the fact that these brakes were taken off some other vehicle where they performed flawlessly. I work in a high tech field where engineers do that all the time. They take a component, assembly, or system and use it on another model of the product we design and manufacture. More often than not the component, assembly, or system does not perform as it did on the original model. Why? Because the operating parameters are not the same. The temperature of the product is not the same, the RPM's are different, vibrations, oscillations, natural frequencies all are different. This would appear to be the case with the H3.

Based on what I have observed, I believe there is a problem with the front to rear balance valve (or however they get the F/R balance). The H3 literature states that the braking system is designed so that the nose does not "dive" when the brakes are applied. In my opinion the nose still dives and I see no difference from other vehicles. It seems to me that when you brake lightly, there is no rear brake action and therefore no groan. When you do medium to hard braking, there is limited force applied to the discs and therefore they grab and release, grab and release, grab and release, which gives the groaning noise.

With all these complaints, GM engineers should get off their butts and figure out what the problem is. However, if they can't fix some plastic marker lights in a year and a half, I guess there's no hope for a brake groan problem.....:violin:

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

:iagree:, that was a good read.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

fourfourto, this is good info. After you hear what the Hummer field rep has to tell you on Jan.5, maybe you could give him JV1's thoughts, too. I think it's ridiculous for the dealers to say, "Yeah we hear it, but it must be something inherent to the H3." What?! Would we have bought it while hearing that awful sound during a test drive? Of course not. So why do we have to live with it now? I went through an awful time with the dealer last Spring/Summer. No one should have to spend that much time at a dealership with a new vehicle. THANKFULLY ... the groan has taken a hiatus (for some reason), though I cringe everytime I come to a stop .. anticipating that grind/groan sound. Good luck, fourfourto. I hope you find something out that can help us all out, too!

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

:iagree: good info from JV1 :clapping:
I will mention the proportionary valve to them friday(I dont think they like my input) Not sure how to check.

It also doesnt explain how it goes away after rotors are cut and new pads installed.
The service guy would like to replace rotors and pads he just needs an ok from hummer.
Im not 100% sure that will permentaly fix the problem,Ill see on friday.

Jv1 does your noise sound like my sound files?

Hmmm3 your noise went away:clapping: or you just not listening:shhh:

If a H3 driven by a deaf person comes to a stop with no one around does it make a noise ?:giggling:

F5 any input on the poportionary valve ?

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

LOL .. good try, fourfourto! :giggling: I watch my H3 like a hawk ...nothing passes my ears or eyes when it comes to sounds, creaks, peeling A pillar mouldings, clear-coat missing from my hood, engine misfiring, stabili-trak probs, ...etc., etc. I've had a number of things wrong with my H3. Sometimes it had gotten to the point where I'd be the 3 with my son .. coming to a red light .. and I'd turn off the XM abruptly. My son would yell, "You did that just as the good part of the song was coming on!" I'd say, "Sorry, I had to listen to hear if the groan was coming back." As I had mentioned, I had heard it come back once .. sometime in September, I think. Then, not again. I would not only HEAR it, I could FEEL it in the brake pedal. It was very bad .. just about as bad as yours. I'm amazed that more people don't have the problem.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Just a note: The H3 has dynamic rear proportioning via the circuitry of the EBTCM and the lines to the front and rear brake calipers. If marketing says it will prevent the front end from diving, they are incorrect, and should be hung at dawn. Even, with NO front brakes, a sudden apply of the brakes will cause the front end of any vehicle to nosedive...something about physics.
The dynamic proportioning circuitry primarily takes effect during extremely heavy braking; a lot heavier than I hear here about the groaning noise. A lot heavier than my groaning noise that went away with a new t/case.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

F5 didnt they have anti pitch /dive on the 95 to 99 Buick Riviera.
I noticed on the one I had (Great car 3.8 supercharged ahead of its time )it had a fitting on the struts to lock/dampen them during hard braking or acceleration.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

From the H3 website:

DYNAMIC REAR PROPORTIONING
"Another integral part of this intelligent braking system is Dynamic Rear Brake Proportioning. This system modulates rear brake pressure and ensures that braking is balanced between the front and rear brakes. In English, that means that the nose of the H3 won't dive down while braking hard. And in any language, that means your passengers might not even notice what happened."

LOL - I guess they also have some other physics defying system. When the driver slams on the brakes, the nose locks so it doesn't dive and the passengers are held to their seats by a star wars invisible force field??? Who allows these people to write this stuff? :confused:

Fourfourto:
I listened to your sound files. I don't believe our H3 sounds the same but then again I've never stuck my head out the rear window to listen. Maybe I'll try it soon. With a noise as loud as yours it would seem that the mechanics ears would readily identify the major component that is generating the noise.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

:iagree:

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Mine does a nose dive under hard braking but I think it is the shocks.



Toyota 4x4 trucks have a mechanical proportioning valve that reduces rear brake pressure under hard braking or light loads.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

fourfourto ... you're down to only hours now before you have the field rep FINALLY look at your H3!! Don't forget to post anything you hear after you talk to him/her. This should be good. ;)

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

I dont know where to start

Short version ... Dam Fvckin Bullshlt:mad:


:rant: The GM field rep went for a ride with me along with the service manager.
It was making the noise but not as bad as it usually does(it was raining also)He said something about antilock brakes ,I said the pumps in the front and noise is from rear also Im not braking hard enough to kick in antilocks.I then did a panic stop at 30mph to kick in the anti locks and I said THATS THE ANTILOCKS and he didnt mention that again.
He drove back and He heared the noise but mostly was trying to feather off the brake short of the full stop or trying it at a 10 mph stop.I told him you have to stop from over 30mph for it to be noticable.I also said its worse stoping at the bottom of a long hill.
I also showed him the video on my camera explaining its a lot louder on the outside and said its embarrassing.
Anyway we get back to the dealer and he says he feels its not dangerous it is a Normal charactoristic of the H3 there is no fix he will look into it and bring it up with the enginers at the next meeting in a few weeks.
I said If we went for a ride with any H3 on the lot it wouldnt make the noise,he didnt say anything.
during the ride he did say it was the first time he was in and drove a H3:twak: How can he tell me normal if he never drove one:lame:

He did compliment my eclipse system and liked the rear camera.he also liked the clinometer.he was very nice during the ride.

When I asked him what could be done he said wait and see if it get worse also theres a file on it if I had a problem after the warrany ends,I said I cant live with it that long I have 23k on it it its warranty expires at 50K
He said if your not satisfied call the BBB .I said I didnt want to go that route at this point I just want it fixed,He said he will look into it and get back to me.
I asked him was he a service tech in the past he said he was a body tech,I think I know more then he did about mechanics.

More was said but end result was nothing.
I think I will give him a little time to "look into it" I dont have much choice

Im doing a tire rotation in about 1,000 miles at my brothers shop We will inspect the brakes ourselfs at that time ,maybe we can figure it out.


F5
I did get the field reps buisiness card with his name and info I will PM to you,Not sure if you can give any help considering we dont know what the cause of the problem is but your opinion his highly valued.

Hmmm3 I guess its your turn at bat :giggling:

Im Done for now
GRRR Grrr grrr I feel :OWNED:

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

OMG, fourfourto!!!!! You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I REALLY thought that this guy would have suggested a 'fix' for you .. or at least, re-do the pads again. I have to admit that I don't know anything about brake pads, but, the last dealership who looked at mine said they cut the pads in a diamond shape? Does that make sense? He said it would help considerably since I live on a (slight) hill. I have only had the groan come back once, and that was when I was the passenger in my H3 when it happened. I still can't believe that the field rep couldn't offer you anything more than "I'll look into it". Geeez, how long have you already been waiting?? Sounds like I'm venting, sorry. I went through a lot of that same nonsense, but I stayed a 'squeeky wheel' through it all. I couldn't stand the noise and the feel in the brake pedal when the groan happened. I really felt it was a disaster waiting to happen as I was going downhill. Fourfourto, check your pm's.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Hmmm3 I dont see any Pm's,I check later:D

I added your next up at bat but then realized yours stoped making noise,
Funny thing after I did the panic stop the noise was less noticable?
It was raining but the rep heard the noise.

I think im going to inhale a few beers :beerchug:

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

That sure sucks 442. I feel for you.

What I don't get is how anybody can say that noise is "normal". Since when has brake noise EVER been normal on a vehicle? Brake noise has always meant bad things.

Good luck with this

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

I replied, and for everyone else a regional or marketing area service manager is not usually technical. Always try and get a regional service engineer, as the name implies, they are familiar with the vehicle's working.

Ok, let me get off the t/case kick. If it is something in the rear brakes, then the only thing I can think of is a modulating frequency that happens when you harsly apply the brakes, which would make the vehicle sway forward and downward. When the piston inside the caliper is applied it generates a frequency since it is vibrating against the pad. Shims are installed between the back of the pads and the piston(s) to absorb this frequency. Usually, the shim will have some type of lubricant or be made of Teflon.
I'm only guessing here....
but could the lubricant on the shim be wearing off....
could the shim be bad altogether
could there be no shim installed?

On a different angle....
Pads, are also used to absorb the frequency between the pad and the rotor as well as generate the heat to stop the vehicle. A change in pads might solve the problem.

Just some thoughts, and that is all they are.

I guess on a hard stop, a bearing race could even be spinning slightly in the hub. Not sure what they might sound like....

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Do the brakes normaly have shims or only when needed?
I can pop the pads off myself and look,also I can add teflon lub if needed.
Im going to inspect next month when I do a tire rotation.

For now im living with it till its figured out.

You would think they would have sent a engineer .He never took it into the shop.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Not all come with shims, but most I have ever seen do. You can purchase shims from an auto parts store and install one between the piston and the pad; might be worth a try; might not do a thing.

If you add lube, do it very sparingly.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

waaahooooo fourfourto! Im having the same problem just came on here to check and see if anyone else has it. Mines really loud and last a lot longer than yours but its when i break. I noticed your on long island. Are you taking your truck to ramp hummer? Cause thats where im going Monday to complain.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Yes I went to ramp hummer,lucas the service manager is a very nice guy,but still says noise is normal no fix?:twak: The field rep backed him up with normal also:twak: :twak:
Let me know what happens .
Does your noise come at the end of the stop?

Where are you on long island ,do you ever go to smiths point beach?

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

I read through the entire manual again. I can't find ANYWEAR where it says

"The H-3 HUMMER has an exclusive GROANING noise in its brakes so as to make this vehicle stand out from all others"

RYD

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

yea i go to smith point sometimes. Im in medford. I went to that trip with the dealer to paragon too if you went you probly seen me. I had a black one. Brought my girlfriend. Black hair big boobs.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Say Whaaaat ! Boobies ....:jump:


A set of boobs is always something you should always bring with you wheeling,a perfect accessory for the H3:clapping:

Sorry I got distracted whaaat where we talking about.:confused:

Oh yeh let me know how it goes today with the boobies...Woops I mean the H3:rolleyes:

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Somehow I've managed to avoid ever reading this thread.. I didn't want to temp fate.. Would rather not know there is a problem that could happen.. Wouldn't worry and be listening to every little noise that way..

Anyroads.. I scanned through the entire thing quickly.. Saw stuff about replacing pads, resurfacing rotors, sanding stuff, etc... If this IS just noisey pads it may be as simple as modifying the pad just enough to change any harmonic resonance..

The brakes on my motorcycle are some noisy SOBs... They squeal, they groan, they cuss at me, etc... I found that if the leading and trailing edge of the pads are cut off at a 45 degree angle, noises all but go completely away..

Just something to think about...

Rob

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Maybe that's why mine stopping groaning (except for once)?

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Im going to rotate the tires next month and inspect the brakes myself,I will have it apart so I might as well shave the pads It couldnt hurt.
I might also add lube and add shims if needed.


hmmm :The once it did it could thet have been the antilocks?

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

I was the passenger on that drive, so I don't know if it was the same as before with the brake pedal feeling, too. It had sounded the same as all the other times, though. I cringed and said, "Ohhhhh no ...". It was a pretty steep grade, though, and a very fast stop. I made a hard stop yesterday which SHOULD have made the groan (if the groan was going to happen) .. but, it didn't. I've never hit the brakes hard enough (in my opinion) to make the antilocks engage. Is it a similar sound, in your opinion?

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

:shhh: silence is nice

Kinda similar.Grrr grrr gr
But different Gaaar gaar gar
Next time it rains/snows or in dirt(or the dry road if your a little crazy )get up to about 25 to 30 MPH and slam the brakes and hold it (no pumping ),you will here/feel it
Make sure no ones behind you, :eek: or use a parking lot.:giggling:

Its good to check out how the brakes stop during a panic stop.

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

Short version....Im fvked :OWNED: :crying:






:rant: I get a call from the customer service manager from Gm.She tells me she spoke to the field rep and was told the noise I hear is normal.
File closed His decision is final.

WTF

She would'nt listen to anything I said(she did listen but said I can only go by the field rep)

She told me all she can do is send me forms for the BBB or I could call the attorney general .
:mad: I said send them

WTF

Also I asked about a extended waranty. she said Gm does not extend warranty on brakes

I guess I will have to live with it for now and try to fix it myself in a few weeks or 850 more miles at tire rotation ,Hopefully the brake lube and pad shaving does the trick

Or sue GM and cost me more then putting in drilled/sloted rotors with ceramic pads.

Had to vent ,Can you here the wife venting in the background,I think shes gonna go to hummer and shoot the fvcks:giggling: :shhh:

Re: Rear Brake/Axle Groan...
 

You've got to be joking?!?!?!?!?!?! She offered to send you BBB and/or forms for the Attorney General?!?!? Your groan is so loud, too, from what I heard on your sound link! My GM Customer Service Rep told me, too, that whatever the GM/Hummer field rep comes back with, is what he had to stand by... no matter what. I had quite a few problems other than the brake groan, so maybe that's why I got something from them. Brake groan, cylinder head, stabil-itrak, hood re-paint (twice), peeling A-pillar mouldings, now waiting on 2nd pair of mouldings, etc., etc. I had been without the H3 for long periods at a time. :crying:

I'd be very upset, fourfourto. :rant: Can you ask for the next person above your GM Customer Service rep? Was she the first person you spoke to, or the second? I had to go to the second person .. the first could only do so much ..like check with the Service Manager.

Does yours still sound as bad as it did in the link you had posted???? How can they call that normal????