I ran my stock 285/75 R16 tires at 14PSI all day yesterday on rocks, water, mud, washouts etc., and did not pop a bead.

I think with these trucks (H3's), it is just going to be an experiment. I don't think you can prescribe to one school of thought. Every vehicle tire/wheel combo is different.

Like that.

Again, your inability to comprehend the written word has caused you to fly off the handle. The surest sign of someone with no rational argument is when they resort to name calling.

I can back up my point, but I refuse to do so with someone who's acting like a child. Why do you think I haven't been responding to your other posts? I can assure you it's not b/c I don't have plenty of rebuttals for you.....it's b/c you're not worthy of the time.

When you can have an adult conversation, I'll be more than willing to discuss this with you. Until then, I'm sure you'll continue digging your own grave.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>back up what point? you can't backup anything you've as it applies here because you don't know anything about these vehicles.

You can't argue because you are wrong. The rest of it ancillary and it's obvious you focus more on it than anything to remotely to do with whether or not you are helping.

Thanks for visiting Sean. Buh-Bye!

Neo - after your escapade Saturday, did you encounter any problems with this flange? Or have you removed it already?

havent trimed anything seems to just barely clear i did notice that fronts do touch front sway bar at full lock and suspension working . small area where paint was worn on sway bar , i will keep an eye on it as i air down more and more , its a pretty minor concern at this time . still no trimming or torsion bar adjustment

Kewl. Thanks, man. I grew up not too far from you in Santa Monica. Have great memories of the hills between Mulholland and PCH where they used to film M.A.S.H. After I get my truck (4-5 weeks, I hope), I'll have to look you up down there.

Rubbing on the sway bar is not a problem. In fact, it's very common with the H2's. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

If you rub on the fender liner, just cut it away.

Again, your inability to comprehend the written word has caused you to fly off the handle. The surest sign of someone with no rational argument is when they resort to name calling.

I can back up my point, but I refuse to do so with someone who's acting like a child. Why do you think I haven't been responding to your other posts? I can assure you it's not b/c I don't have plenty of rebuttals for you.....it's b/c you're not worthy of the time.

When you can have an adult conversation, I'll be more than willing to discuss this with you. Until then, I'm sure you'll continue digging your own grave.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>back up what point? you can't backup anything you've as it applies here because you don't know anything about these vehicles.

You can't argue because you are wrong. The rest of it ancillary and it's obvious you focus more on it than anything to remotely to do with whether or not you are helping. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Paragon,
I can only assume this is your attempt to discuss the issue like an adult.....what with the fact that you didn't call me any names above.

It strikes me as you're the type of guy who likes to argue for the sake of arguing, so I'll entertain your comments.

For example, I could say, "The planet we live on is called Earth" and you'd say "No, it's not". You wouldn't explain your reasoning....e.g. that in another language, the exact word might not be "Earth"....you'd just harp on about how stupid I am. Well, hopefully, you can see how counter productive that is.

So.....let's get down to it: what pressure do you recommend for a "general" trail pressure for the H3?

Obviously, we're not talking about running down the highway or even on fireroads....we're talking a trail pressure where: low range is going to be required to navigate the trail and tire pressure will be lowered from street pressure to optimize the ride quality over the ledges, rocks, roots, ruts, etc. and maximize traction.

As for your assertion that the H3 is somehow SOOOO different from any other vehicle that I couldn't possibly make a valid recommendation based on my experience: that's simply a load of crap. (Notice a few posts up where someone was running 14 psi all day with no issues????)

What's an H3 weigh? I'm guessing somewhere between 5-6K lbs. with passengers and gear, right? I'm assuming they also run something like a 16 or possibly a 17" wheel too, right?

So basically, we have a vehicle with a fairly even (60/40 or 55/45) weight bias f/r (depending on cargo)....are you trying to buffalo everyone here into believing that somehow it's so very different from other vehicles in the overall weight and weight distribution class that the tire pressure required will be different? If so, WHY????? What makes it different?

The reason I pointed out that you weren't reading what I was writing earlier, was b/c you seem to have missed this statement, "I'd say from my own experience that you should be able to go down to 12 psi without losing a bead.

That's my personal experience with A LOT of different vehicles with the same or similar sized tires on the same size rims.....including very close to the same overall weights and biases. I can give specific vehicle examples if required.

If you could explain to me why the H3 is so much different than all of these other vehicles, I'd love to hear your reasoning. Otherwise, I'm inclined to think your post was merely to try and engage in an argument.

As for the Level-O-Gauge or Clinometer (whichever term you prefer): If it's so "ancillary" as you stated, why even bring it up?

I'm sure you're familiar with the difference between % of grade and degrees. If an H3 is rated by the factory to handle a 40% grade, and the gauge used (I don't know how it's graduated) is in degrees, unless someone knows the conversion (and I'll bet many owners do not)....it isn't really that helpful. Do you disagree with that elemental statement?

Do you know how manufacturers come up with the sidehill % of grade? I'm not asking to act like a know it all.....I'm asking b/c I don't know if you know. If you'll bear with me, it'll become clearer.

Here's a pic of the kind of platform many manufacturers use to test sidehill threshold:



As you can tell from the pic.....it's a very static variable test. The problem with the gauges in the real world is the variables are much more dynamic....weight transfer, as well as cargo shifting, tire placement and uneven terrain will all come into play and that's not really the element in which the manufacturer's test was designed (unless you like wheeling on the sides of a drainage retention ditch like in LA ).

All I meant by my comment about clinometers was that they are not the be-all, end-all answer to whether or not your vehicle will roll over in a given situation.....I didn't mean the guy that was putting one in his rig felt that way, but there are people out there that do misunderstand it's application.

If you'd like to discuss it further, I can go into more detail with more examples, but I'm sure you can see what I was getting at now that I've explained it.

Sean

PS. I'm not sure if this post will set you off on another tirade....you'll probably say it's too long winded, etc. Whatever; I gave my explanation. That's all I can do.

Again, your inability to comprehend the written word has caused you to fly off the handle. The surest sign of someone with no rational argument is when they resort to name calling.

I can back up my point, but I refuse to do so with someone who's acting like a child. Why do you think I haven't been responding to your other posts? I can assure you it's not b/c I don't have plenty of rebuttals for you.....it's b/c you're not worthy of the time.

When you can have an adult conversation, I'll be more than willing to discuss this with you. Until then, I'm sure you'll continue digging your own grave.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>back up what point? you can't backup anything you've as it applies here because you don't know anything about these vehicles.

You can't argue because you are wrong. The rest of it ancillary and it's obvious you focus more on it than anything to remotely to do with whether or not you are helping. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Paragon,
I can only assume this is your attempt to discuss the issue like an adult.....what with the fact that you didn't call me any names above.

It strikes me as you're the type of guy who likes to argue for the sake of arguing, so I'll entertain your comments.

For example, I could say, "The planet we live on is called Earth" and you'd say "No, it's not". You wouldn't explain your reasoning....e.g. that in another language, the exact word might not be "Earth"....you'd just harp on about how stupid I am. Well, hopefully, you can see how counter productive that is.

So.....let's get down to it: what pressure do you recommend for a "general" trail pressure for the H3?

Obviously, we're not talking about running down the highway or even on fireroads....we're talking a trail pressure where: low range is going to be required to navigate the trail and tire pressure will be lowered from street pressure to optimize the ride quality over the ledges, rocks, roots, ruts, etc. and maximize traction.

As for your assertion that the H3 is somehow SOOOO different from any other vehicle that I couldn't possibly make a valid recommendation based on my experience: that's simply a load of crap. (Notice a few posts up where someone was running 14 psi all day with no issues????)

What's an H3 weigh? I'm guessing somewhere between 5-6K lbs. with passengers and gear, right? I'm assuming they also run something like a 16 or possibly a 17" wheel too, right?

So basically, we have a vehicle with a fairly even (60/40 or 55/45) weight bias f/r (depending on cargo)....are you trying to buffalo everyone here into believing that somehow it's so very different from other vehicles in the overall weight and weight distribution class that the tire pressure required will be different? If so, WHY????? What makes it different?

The reason I pointed out that you weren't reading what I was writing earlier, was b/c you seem to have missed this statement, "I'd say from my own experience that you should be able to go down to 12 psi without losing a bead.

That's my personal experience with A LOT of different vehicles with the same or similar sized tires on the same size rims.....including very close to the same overall weights and biases. I can give specific vehicle examples if required.

If you could explain to me why the H3 is so much different than all of these other vehicles, I'd love to hear your reasoning. Otherwise, I'm inclined to think your post was merely to try and engage in an argument.

As for the Level-O-Gauge or Clinometer (whichever term you prefer): If it's so "ancillary" as you stated, why even bring it up?

I'm sure you're familiar with the difference between % of grade and degrees. If an H3 is rated by the factory to handle a 40% grade, and the gauge used (I don't know how it's graduated) is in degrees, unless someone knows the conversion (and I'll bet many owners do not)....it isn't really that helpful. Do you disagree with that elemental statement?

Do you know how manufacturers come up with the sidehill % of grade? I'm not asking to act like a know it all.....I'm asking b/c I don't know if you know. If you'll bear with me, it'll become clearer.

Here's a pic of the kind of platform many manufacturers use to test sidehill threshold:



As you can tell from the pic.....it's a very static variable test. The problem with the gauges in the real world is the variables are much more dynamic....weight transfer, as well as cargo shifting, tire placement and uneven terrain will all come into play and that's not really the element in which the manufacturer's test was designed (unless you like wheeling on the sides of a drainage retention ditch like in LA ).

All I meant by my comment about clinometers was that they are not the be-all, end-all answer to whether or not your vehicle will roll over in a given situation.....I didn't mean the guy that was putting one in his rig felt that way, but there are people out there that do misunderstand it's application.

If you'd like to discuss it further, I can go into more detail with more examples, but I'm sure you can see what I was getting at now that I've explained it.

Sean

PS. I'm not sure if this post will set you off on another tirade....you'll probably say it's too long winded, etc. Whatever; I gave my explanation. That's all I can do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>actually I could employ my speedreading skills but my BS meter was going off too loudly.

You said and I quote "you should be able to go down to 12 psi without losing a bead." That's bad advice. As far as your 14 psi comment, I'll take the pictures and your definition of "trails" into consideration but more importantly, since you are so into math, let's understand something. Going from 14 psi to 12 psi is a huge change in tire pressure. NO? Just 2 lbs change might not mean much at 45 but in the teens that represents roughly a 15% change.

So, you are advising someone to run a pressure where they are VERY LIKELY to pop a bead should they wheel difficult terrain just because you don't think the weight has anything to do with it. It's really simple physics, you push a 6k lb vehicle into a rock with underinflated tires and the weight matters, dumbass.

As far as ancillary, you should try to pay attention. I'm referring to you being a dumbass, stupid, and quite the idiot, being ancillary.

I'm sure you thought you had a point about side slope, especially the part where you were insinuating other owner couldn't possibly be as smart as you. But frankly, again you showed your stupidity. And you were set up knowing you were going to be stupid about this one.

In fact I am very familiar with how slope percentage compares to angle of degrees. I junior high school too. Fact is, the approx 23 degrees that Hummer says is the safe amount of off camber is not even close to what it's safely capable of doing.

Can I ask something personal. Are you 12 years old?

Why? Are you looking for a date? You strike me as the kind of guy that would be into young boys.

As for the rest of it....

It's not bad advice.....as I said, IN MY EXPERIENCE......you obviously needed the examples.

Here's just one. 02 Dodge 4x4 2500 with Cummins H.0., NV5600, HD NP241 with PTO, D80 rear, D60 front....weight: 7800lbs with 16" rims and 315 tires (roughly a 35" tire). I'm giving you the heavier vehicle example b/c that should matter even more.....I run 12 psi on Poughkeepsie Gulch in Colorado....no blow beads and there's a very good offcamber at the hardest spot on the trail (not that it's a difficult trail.....but it does meet the requirements I posted earlier of lower pressure, low range needed, etc.).


Now, answer the question or is it simply that you can't? 15% doesn't mean crap. What matters is whether or not the tire stays on the rim or can you not grasp that either?

So, explain professor.....why is the H3 SOOOO different?

Answer: it's not.

Sean

Good for you and your fire road. I've made my point and if 15% doesn't mean crap to you, maybe it will to someone that actually is wheeling their H3.

Why would you air down to ride along on a scenic road? That's more trouble than it's worth. Oh yeah, you like to use that comprehension thing don't you. Well I'll quote.

See, you are hung up on you. You are hung up on running on gravel roads and airing down so it's not as bumpy.

The thread was about what to air down to in Moab where REAL trail riding will be had, not your redefined idea of trail riding. That's really funny, "hey, why don't you air down to 12 psi in Moab because when I drive on gravel roads I can assure you I won't pop a bead"

See, you are hung up on you. You are hung up on running on gravel roads and airing down so it's not as bumpy.

The thread was about what to air down to in Moab where REAL trail riding will be had, not your redefined idea of trail riding. That's really funny, "hey, why don't you air down to 12 psi in Moab because when I drive on gravel roads I can assure you I won't pop a bead" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ya, a fullsize tow rig isn't really equipped to run challenging trails. I gave the example to illustrate that an even HEAVIER rig than an H3 can run 12 psi with similar tires/wheels and have no problems. If you think there are more than a handful of H3s out there running harder trails than Poughkeepsie....your experience is much different than mine and the pics in this thread support my POV.

Oh, you want Moab trails.....sorry, I can give you some specs on a 4500 lb 4Runner I had....35x15.5 SXs on 15" wheels, no beadlocks 12 psi.....That was way back when though. I've got video and I think I've got actual photos, but no scanner.

I've got plenty of pics from Moab with a truggie on 38s with beadlocks.....not really helpful though since it was locked.

Want those pics instead? Just say so.

I've got Upper Helldorado pics, Pritchett Canyon, and Hell's Revenge....btw, those are all easy as pie compared to AZ trails. Upper Hell's the only one that's really on par with the stuff here.

So, that 15% was the crux of your whole argument? Hmmm.....seems to me the guy that posted about different terrains requiring different pressures had it right but you know all.

Sean

Oh, and I am hung up on me. I'm self centered as all hell.....but then you already know that.



Sean

Oh, I'm a troll? Riiiiiight

How so? B/c I'm doing to your little butt buddy what he and you do to everyone else?

I came here pleasant as punch. I made a mistake about a skid pan and admitted that mistake after being given a good answer for the other point of view.

Paragon and his little mafia members looked at every post I made and decided to take issue with me.

Maybe I just didn't understand that's the way things work around here, but I do now. Thanks for the education.

I didn't come here orginally looking for trouble. You found me. Well I'm here. Bring it, if you can.

Sean

One has the number 2 and the other has the number 3 after the H. Are you stupid? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since you obviously aren't following the thread very well, maybe you should ask yourself that question.

Clarification: we're not discussing the H2 vs. the H3. I want to know why Paragon thinks a vehicle that weighs roughly the same as the H3 and has a very similar weight bias is SO much different than the H3 that it necessitates a different PSI recommendation for the tires.

Oh, and Paragon....I also have pics of the Moab Rim trail.....want those too?

Sean

Please. You fawkers are so weak.

Sean