And you should also be embarrased by their actions. Just curious as to what your involvement is with EMS and search and rescue? Anybody in this field with an ounce of pride in what they do should be outraged at public safety response to this incident.

4@thebeach, Your a little late on this thread and casting quick judgments as well my friend. I suggest you read the entire thread before you insult these two gentlemen.

Marc,
I totally agree.

H2c,
Thank you.

4@tb,
Pony up, I've been doing this since 1980. What's your position and rank and who do you work for?

If one chooses to partake in the discussion here, please respect everyone else and at least read all of the prior post. Not only read them, but comprehend them as well. Our ignorance of all of the facts does not preclude us from making some factual assumptions. It is something that many people are forced to do everyday just to save lives, make assumptions that is. So I will further qualify this entire thread that the opinions and comments voiced here are the direct result of the information obtained here. It doesn't appear that the Rangers feel it necessary to review their actions or lack of action, nor does it seem that any additional followup information as related to the facts are flowing. So the opinions here are based on what has been reported thus far and those assumptions are educated guesses based on experience. Got it now. Does that make it easier to understand.

Brilliant!!! Why must this be your ONLY post? You belong here.

As Hummer Deity, I command you to stay.

I've stayed out of this one but finally felt compelled to post. My first thought is that none of you have enough facts to make some of the judgements you've posted. Second, Hummoron & others make some valid points (his H2 bashing & callousness notwithstanding). Third, are we evaluating H2s, OnStar or Emergency Services? And forth, my opinion is based on what I've read here, not on investigative facts. I have to equate this to my experience in aviation and since credentials seem to be playing a part I'll start there:

1) 35 yrs flying experience - personal/professional. Ratings not important. 2) Chief pilot/chief flight instuctor/chief check pilot. 3) Accident prevention counselor - Federal Aviation Administration. 4) Investigator/expert witness aviation litigation

With that said, my conclusion will be brief. Regardless of how many qualified individuals there are onboard an airplane, there's only one PIC (pilot in command) and he/she is soley responsible for the outcome of the flight. Same holds true with automobiles. Whoever is driving the vehicle is ultimately responsible for the outcome, period. Others may play a part but only contributory. Take the case of the 1978 USAC aviation accident where many of the officials were killed in a chartered flight from Trenton to Indy. I both investigated & testified in that accident. The PIC was a friend of mine. Both the FAA and the National Weather Bureau were sued in this accident and were found negligent & contributory, but the cause of accident was still judged to be PIC error. He had 60,000 hours flight time but still made a bad judgement that cost many lives. As for this H2 incident, it appears clear that the driver made some very bad judgements, and paid the price along with his passenger. To somehow infer that OnStar, EMS or Rangers caused these deaths is ludicrous. However, if the investigation ultimately shows that they were in fact somehow negligent in carrying out their duties in accordance with the standards set for them, they too will pay a price. And if that proves true, new standards will be set that will possibly save lives in the future. But make no mistake, there's a huge difference between the responsibility of preventing the accident and trying to save lives after the fact.

On a personal note I have to add that it's time people start taking responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming everyone else. The schools are full of it, the courts are full of it and so is society in general. We look in all directions to find someone we can blame for our own decisions. Adam made bad judgements and paid for it. That's the way life works. It won't be the first or the last time. The unfortunate part is that someone else paid a price too.

LasVegas, while I feel that I comprehend your point, nevertheless, the analogy seemed inaccurate. A plane crash is often immediately fatal. Not so in this Hummer accident.

In my mind a closer analogy would be if the plane crashed in a remote island, but everyone survived. An SOS was sent and received, but was given a cursory search and rescue effort (ie. no fly over). HOURS LATER, the victims then died of HYPOTHERMIA.

This is less about cause of his death, but more of why wasn't he saved?

I feel that if the search and rescue effort was perhaps closer to the standard that Marcmedic and Tower operate under, we will now be discussing heroism of the rangers involved -- instead of cursing their incompetency.

I have followed this thread since the first post by Paragon and until now I have stayed out of it too. But it has turned out to be such a huge, super long, on-going, thread that would not die, that I have to add my avatar/name for posterity.

So here is what I have to say about it.

" "

That is all. No value added.

LVJ,

I had no idea you were so accomplished. Also, for some reason I thought you were very young. Must be your spirit.

Peace.

H2Finally...I'm afraid you're proving my point. First, you only see those major headline stories where an airliner crashes and kills 175 people. There are many many other accidents of less significance with survivors that you never hear about so the analogy is sound IMO. Flying, 4 wheeling, or driving in Las Vegas is not inherently safe and the actions & judgement of the responsible operator causes death, not those that attempt to save them from their poor judgement. Should emergency services be held responsible for their actions? Absolutely. Should they be held 100% responsible for deaths caused by someone elses poor judgement because they didn't execute perfectly? Absolutely not. This is not a perfect world, but it would be a lot closer if more people would take full responsibility for their own actions. However, you are correct on the "cause" of death vs possible "saving". But their possible saving will forever be subject to debate where the reason the deaths happened appears to be absolute. In the not too distant past EMS & Rescue Services as we know them today didn't even exist and now we try to cloud our irresponsible acts with their performance.

Does that mean we can't be friends anymore?

Its funny how the blame culture works - last night I was pulling up to an intersection - I was turning right - the light just turned green as I was going to make the turn - a car came barreling through the light - and slammed into a kid in a pick up truck one block down crossing the street through a stop sign.

The kid in the speeding car ran - I tried to chase him down but he went over a wall into trees and I currently have a foot injury that prevents me from walking let alone run - so he got away.

When the cops showed up - about 5 minutes later - they blamed the kid in the pick up for the accident - stating that he had obviously pulled out in front of the car - which on the face of it would appear to have happened.

It wasnt until I stepped in and informed them that the driver of the car had nearly T boned me at the light and that he was probably doing in excess of 60mph in a 30mph zone that they started to realise that the driver of the pick up might not be at fault after all (who luckily was uninjured - the car hit the back end of his truck).

The point that I think that I am trying to make here is that we were not there - we did not witness the incident - we were not involved with the rescue attempts - it would be very interesting to actually talk to someone that was involved - and therefore we are not qualified to make any judgements or assumptions in this case.

The incident that I witnessed last night brought that home to me - one persons assumption of the cause of the outcome was completely different than the actual events that happened.

That is the best, most accurate thing I've read on this forum in a long time. And I find it sad that so many people in our society are unwilling to take personal responsibility for the decisions and actions they take.

LVJ,

I suppose; If I have to.

Andy C,
I am Adam's ex girlfriend. I spent my whole life with that guy. You have no idea how refreshing it is to see another point of view on this thread. I appreciate your contribution to this discussion. You have a good point. No one was there. No one knows exactly what happened. After reading horrible comments, (especially that hummoron made), about my ex boyfriend, I couldn't help but get frustrated, angry, upset, etc. I don't necessarily put the blame on anyone other than Adam, the driver, but I too don't know what happened that night. As a normal human being, I'm angered that ppl can just talk about someone I loved so carelessly (for a lack of better words). People here are entitled to their own opinion, but I know I've been emotionally drained reading this thread. I don't even know why I am putting myself through it. So, thank you for putting a different view on the table for everyone to see. You now know at least one person agrees with you here.

Come on ali648, with the exception of a few idiots like hummoron, who's not worth your frustration & anger, I don't think anyone is suggesting Adam deserved to die. Nobody will ever know exactly what happened that night but it's pretty conclusive that Adam placed himself and his passenger in a dangerous situation with terrible results. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but that doesn't change the outcome. The best that can come from this is for you and others to learn a valuable lesson.

las vegas,
i think you are basically reiterating exactly what i just wrote. hummoron is an ass...he's the one that i personally don't like (and i said exactly that), i had said that no one knows what happened, and i had also said i didn't put the blame on anyone but adam. so what is so wrong with that? why did you tell me to "come on?" just a little confused about that one.

Okay, I'll retract the "come on" as long as you're not including some friends posts that just stated bluntly the obvious facts and results of Adam's poor decisions. And seriously, the good that can come from Adam's death is for 4 wheelers to learn a lesson from this tragedy.

Uhm...ok, your "whole" life?
You're not a stalker, are you?

Could you find an answer to my question on the other thread and get back to us, please?
And then feel free to go back to stalking whomever is your current stalkee.

Okay, I'll retract the "come on" as long as you're not including some friends posts that just stated bluntly the obvious facts and results of Adam's poor decisions. And seriously, the good that can come from Adam's death is for 4 wheelers to learn a lesson from this tragedy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't confuse her. She might stick around like a stray cat if we pay attention to her.
(Notice her stalking tendencies?)