Hummer Forums by Elcova - Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

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Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

Do i need an alignment? I read that people are recommending an alignment. I have 22" on the H3 currently. The dealership charged me $50 to balance and rotate, isnt that expensive? Can i take my hummer to any other place for alignment?

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

Quote:

Originally Posted by dchou1107

I would get an alignment if you changed the suspension height. The static suspension geometry is going to change a bit.

$50 is probably about par for the dealer, but probably a bit higher than a tire store (I'd expect $30-40 - not a huge difference). Quality is more important than the difference in price to me. I hate bad balance jobs.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't take it to an alignment shop, as long as they do it to specs.

Michael

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

My dealer gets $90 for an alignment, so $50 sounds good to me. Firestone offers a lifetime alignment service for $180-200 I think, which is a good deal if you're going to wheel your truck.

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

I was advised to give my truck some time to "settle" after adjusting my torsion bars. Time was in the equlivant of about 100 miles.

But hey..you could always blow a differential (or two) and the dealer will give you an alignment for free. :o

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIHUMMER

And in my case (and probably yours) all new rotors and brake pads:cool:

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

How many turns of the tortion bolt did the dealer make?

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

dealer made probably 3 turns to lift the front so that the truck is level. the ride is terrible now especially with the 22". i had the dealer drop it back to stock. Adjusting the torsion is not a good idea at all in my experience

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

Quote:

Originally Posted by dchou1107

The dealer may have gone too far with your adjustment. Try another adjustment yourself but only 2 clockwise turns (make sure you jack up the front end and the front tires are off the ground). Don't forget to mark the bolts so you know how many turns you made. Oh yea, you need a 1 1/16" socket.

Most H3 owners that adjusted the torsion bars went 2 to 2 1/2 turns. Not many went to 3 or over.

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

I jacked mine up before turning the torsion bars but just curious, why do you have to? Is it just to make it easier or does it add more stress or something if you don't? I am thinking about going another 1/2 turn on mine especially after installing the winch.

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

Quote:

Originally Posted by HummerNewbie

I believe it takes the weight off the torsion bars and becomes much easier to adjust. Only a guess.

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

I adjusted my tbars also you can see the difference here:

before:

After the tbar adjustment and accessories and tires:

Now that I added the larger tires for some reason the ride is much smoother - eventually I will get a suspension lift so for now the ride does not bother me.

{I know I spelled 'adjustment' wrong - this is what you get when you're rushing..LOL}

In this picture the rear is 10 inches from the tire and the front is 9 1/2 I think I turned mine about 5 times. And yes, jackin' it up does help - well it did for me, turning it was quite easy after I jacked it up and from what I've been told it is the proper way.

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

inked how do you feel the ride is now? Did it change it alot? One thing Ive noticed with mine, in stock position is when I hit a hard bump it throws the front end around, I have the 285 Firestones and have the air pressure at about 37 psi, anyone else experience this front end throw around when hittin a bump on the streets? What did you do to correct it?

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

Quote:

Originally Posted by humdoug

I believe it takes the weight off the torsion bars and becomes much easier to adjust. Only a guess.

I was guess it was only to make it easier but wasn't sure. Anyone know for sure?

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

Quote:

Originally Posted by azsidewinder

Yeah it does have that basketball dribble effect but I think with shock extenders you can fix that problem. A friend of mine wrote an article for a magazine here it is - pretty interesting:

Quote:

There still is a lot of misconception about the nature of torsion bars. Hopefully this will help clarify the nature and design of the torsion bar independent suspension setup. To begin with, the torsion bar, like the Leif and coil, is simply a spring. A piece of material which when distorted tries to return to its original position. Like the Leif and coil, the torsion bar can loose its memory [sag], or break. The torsion bar, like the conventional Leif or coil spring is at one end fastened to the frame so as not to move during operation. The other end of the torsion bar is fastened to a pivot [the control arm]. Now as force [weight] is applied to the pivot end [control arm] it tries to move and take the torsion bar with it, the opposite end being fastened to the frame, cannot move so the bar twists and then tries to return to its memory position. This being the point at which the pivot end [control arm] originated. With no applied force [weight], the torsion bar will keep its pivot end [control arm] at the position or angle in which it was originally set. As a constantapplied force [set weight] acts upon the torsion bar the torsion bar is resisted from returning all the way back to it's memory or set position. The amount by which the torsion bar can not return to its memory [set] position becomes pre load. Pre load is solely controlled by the amount of force[weight] applied to the torsion bar.

To adjust the ride height of the vehicle by winding the adjuster bolt at the fixed [frame] end of the torsion bar does not add any more force [weight]to the pivot [control arm] end of the torsion bar, therefore the pre load is unaffected, hence ride quality and torsion bar life theoretically remain unchanged. Winding the torsion bar adjuster bolt is the same as installing blocks between the axle and Leif springs or a set of coil spacers; it simply moves the spring to a different position.

The reason the truck may ride a little stiffer is because of the new angle of the pivot [control arm]. As this angle [control arm to ground] becomesgreater, the pivot [control arm] exerts less force on the torsion bar effectively reducing the pre load.

Other reasons for a harsh ride after winding the adjuster bolts is YOU WENT TOO FAR. This is when there is not enough room or no room between the control arm and upper bump stops, leaving no room for downwards travel of the control arm. When to replace your torsion bars with larger ones is if you have added substantial weight [winch, large bush bar, heavy bumper, heavier engine, etc.] or if you are looking for a firmer ride. The affected longevity of related components such as c.v. joints, ball joints, spindles, etc. will be the same weather the heavier torsion bars are used or the originals are adjusted, since these components are affected by the selected angle of the control arm. After a height adjustment is made either way, it is a good idea to have an alignment, but you will most times find that everything is still in spec.

I'd give you the author's email but he told me he wanted to keep his identity confidential - he is a mechanic and used to work for GM. Hope this article clears the air on tbar adjustments.:)

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

I turned mine about 5 times.

Ink, you say 5 times. That is 5 complete revolutions, :confused:correct? Just wondering, because I would like to do mine another 2.5 turns, but had not heard of anyone doing it yet.

Nice rig by the way.

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIHUMMER

But hey..you could always blow a differential (or two) and the dealer will give you an alignment for free. :o

HA HA !! you so funny:D :D

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

I talked to the service manager at my dealer in Oregon and he said that they do not do the torsion bar adjustments. He said that they will not do anything that affects the stock ride quality.:( So I just did it myself. :D Easy to do like everyone else has said. I did two and a half turns and gained 1 in. in the front. The front end does settle a little, my initial measurement showed an 1 1/2 in. gain, I checked it again later and it was only an inch. I had an alignment and it wasn't off by much. It cost 40 bucks at the local tire shop. The ride quality was not affected too much, ride is a little stiffer, but not bad. It looks a lot better and I can't wait to put some 35's on.

Re: Dealer adjusted front torsion so that the vehicle is balanced

Quote:

To adjust the ride height of the vehicle by winding the adjuster bolt at the fixed [frame] end of the torsion bar does not add any more force [weight]to the pivot [control arm] end of the torsion bar, therefore the pre load is unaffected, hence ride quality and torsion bar life theoretically remain unchanged. Winding the torsion bar adjuster bolt is the same as installing blocks between the axle and Leif springs or a set of coil spacers; it simply moves the spring to a different position.

The reason the truck may ride a little stiffer is because of the new angle of the pivot [control arm]. As this angle [control arm to ground] becomesgreater, the pivot [control arm] exerts less force on the torsion bar effectively reducing the pre load.

Sorry, but I totally disagree with this.

It's not the same as putting a block between the axle and spring pack. Putting a block in between those 2 does not effect the springs rate, (like t-bar adjustments do, and does add lift (depending on how tall the block is). The t-bar adjustment does effect the rate, while creating lift. The downward suspension travel, stored in the t-bar, is used to provide the upward lift. That's why the vehicle goes up when you turn it. You are using the downward travel to push the truck up. So, if you had 3" of up travel, and 3" of downward travel, and you use 1" of the DT to lift the truck, then you are only left with 2" of DT. This will equate to a different suspension ride quality. The article says that only the angle is changed, and not the rate of the t-bars. Not true, the reason the angle has changed is because the truck went up with the adjustment... why else would it change? Why would the truck go up? If that idea was correct, and only the angle of the control arm changed, then the t-bar would drop down at the end in question. The truck goes up becuase the load on the t-bar is altered to take away from the downward travel, and create lift with it. Why is it stiffer? because the spring rate has been altered.. not becuase the control arm is operating at a different angle.

Now with all that said, I'm not going to sit here and say that you should not adjust your t-bars. I am saying, however, that it does come with a price. The amount of the price depends on the amount of lift you choose to gain from it. I would not attempt to gain more than 1" max, myself. Monor adjustments may cost you nothing more than a slightly firmer ride. Too much lift will cause premature wear on the CV's and other front end components. In the long run you are better off getting a quality suspension system for the lift, if you need more. T-bar adjustments are for very minor gains, and are not for a full on lift kit. I know everyone would like to think that it's this magical nut that can be turned, and lift the front end, without paying the big bucks to the lift designers. But, let's face it folks, it's not that easy.. there is a reason for the lift/suspension kits. In the end, you have to ask yourself if you spent all this money on this vehicle, only to turn around and skimp on something as important as the suspension.