Your whole point is based off of some questions I asked years ago. I was trying to learn the strengths and weaknesses of that particular application, something I do for any new application I am considering for prototype development. Its called homework/research. I didn't lie about it. I don't know everything, I have never claimed to. Unfortunately we aren't all born with infinite wisdom, we must learn, which is what I was doing.
Its not like I was a dairy farmer and one day, out of the blue, decided to build turbo systems. I experienced the whole process first hand, as a customer. I have loved hot rods since I could walk, they are truly my favorite thing. I had tried about every other means of hot rodding except turbos and I wanted to try it, so I did my research and saw all the problems that people had trying to get turbo systems for their cars, horrible quality, poor designs, little or no customer service, not returning or answering phone calls, or if you do get them to talk to you on the phone, act like they have better things to do than to piss with you and rush to get you off the phone, instead of taking the time to make sure all of your questions are answered, days or weeks before responding to emails (if at all), getting your parts and finding out that half the parts don't fit, the other half are missing, etc. So I bought a used Incon kit because they made the best kits at the time and I was knew I would be getting a complete system. Incon is the company that actually designed the turbo systems for Lingenfelter. Same cast iron manifolds and downpipes, low mounted, on each side of the oil pan. I saw how it was designed, how difficult it was to install (and do regular maintenance on) and lots of things I would change if I did it myself. I got it installed and started driving it and fell in love. It was the greatest thing in hot rodding I had ever experienced, by far. I knew I'd never want another car or truck without turbos.
It was at this point, after experiencing all of this that I started thinking that I could do a better job. Sure, I'd have to learn a lot, it would be a hot, tough job, definitely not an 'office job', but I knew how my way around a hot rod, I wasn't afraid of hard work, and I knew how to take care of a customer...so the journey began. We all have to start somewhere. I grew up in a small town, where your word and your name actually meant something. I bring that sense of pride and honor to work every day, something that is sorely lacking in the automotive aftermarket as a whole. I have been a customer (and still am), so I know exactly what they are going through when trying to find information about a turbo system. It can seem very complicated, daunting and probably even a little scary for some. But I take the time to answer all of their questions, with detailed explanations like the posts I have made here. I have spent literally hours at a time on the phone with a customer answering questions. I was on the phone for 45 minutes today with a soldier calling from Iraq.
Every engine family is different, some have forged cranks, but crappy powdered metal rods and cast pistons, but you don't know until you research and find out. They all have different compression ratios. I have to find out what that is before I can determine how much boost can be run on pump gas, or if lower compression pistons must be installed first. But with the power levels we make, all of our customers have fully forged engines to start with anyway.
Some engines have great heads and really fight against detonation, which means you can safely run a little more boost on pump gas. Some engine designs are prone to lifting head gaskets (like the GM Gen III (LS) family). So we have to figure out how to prevent those problems or any others we discover. We talk to other hot rodders, engine builders and tuners.
I am not an engine builder. Sure, I've built a few and never lost one, but that's not what I do on a daily basis. I design and fabricate twin turbo systems and a few other items. So I always send our customers elsewhere to get their engines built. For my personal car, if I'm going to run 1500hp in a street car that will actually see real daily driven miles, I would want it done by a pro, someone who does it every day, knows all the tricks and nuances and is the best at it...I want the same thing for my customers. Let each person focus on what they are good at.
Every auto manufacturer has different types of fuel systems with their own strong and weak points, some are returnless, some are return-style. Some have to be scrapped and replaced with a full return-style at a relatively low hp range, others are good with only pump and injector upgrades to 700hp, but you have to know which is which.
Every auto manufacturers engine management system is different. Some are highly advanced and very flexible for tuning (Ford EECs). Some are very rigid and don't have the flexibility to be programmed correctly for aftermarket modifications (Mopar). Sure, you may be able to modify them, but not in a proper fashion that provides stock driveability (no stalling, hunting idle, missing, bogging, flooding, backfires, etc.) with major hp increases. The GM units fall somewhere in between.
These are all things I have to learn and know so I can accurately design our systems and help customers. I research each new application and start with a clean sheet of paper. If I'm asked a question that I don't know, I would never guess at the answer and let a customer risk his engine/car/money. I would just tell them right up front that I didn't know, but I would find out, and I do. No one can know everything. The key is to know where to go to find the information when you need it.
That's what forums like this are supposed to be for, sharing information, learning, making friends, not flaming every new person that comes on, because they are a default leg-humper (I believe that was your term).
I have been on the net a long time, almost 15 years now, and I have never gotten the rash of crap that I have gotten here. It completely floored me and all over what? Trying to learn new applications? Thats a real crime. Have I been building turbo systems for 20 years? No. Have I done other things in life besides hot rods? Sure.
So I got flamed because I was doing research, 3 years ago. Sure it may have seemed like basic information to you, it seems like basic information to me too, now, but at that point I was doing my homework. I'm not some guy with a MIG welder in his garage, hacking crap together. We are a legitimate company with legitimate products. If you do any research on "Induction Concepts", you will find nothing but praise. All you have to do is look at the pictures of our work and you can see the quality and attention to detail. But of course none of that will show up here. Its not as much fun as flaming and wreaking havoc.
We don't throw stuff together, we are EXTREMELY picky and only use the finest parts and materials available, no short cuts, no compromises. We won't just build a system and then toss it out on the public to start making sales $$$$, we will continue to work on it, revise it, redesign it from scratch when needed, until its perfect. I design this stuff like it was for my personal vehicle and I'm picky. If something comes out of my shop, its something I'm truly proud to have my name on. You won't find a higher quality product anywhere. We use stainless steel for everything, not just the hot side, but also all of the charged air and coolant lines, heat shields and even our bracketry is stainless. We don't do this because we have to, in order to keep up with our competitors (like they do us), we do it because we feel it is the minimum quality standard. No one used stainless when we started, now, more and more every day are switching.
I didn't make the original post in this thread, trying to hock my wares, I was trying to help and educate another enthusiast. I even recommended a supercharger for a specific solution. I didn't come on and say that turbos are the greatest, and everything else sucks, because its not true. Each has its own strong points and weak points. When a customer calls me or emails me and they are only looking for a 400-500hp solution, I will refer them to a supercharger dealer/manufacturer or even one of my competitors in the turbo industry because we don't focus on that power range. It's not an economical choice for them to choose our products for what we consider that low of a power level. Of course if they are building a show vehicle or just really want "twin turbos", we will help them, but we put their best interests first, instead of our financial interests. I know we lose sales because of this philosopy, but we don't lose any sleep at night because we know we have done the right thing.
As for having permission to post here, here is the reply from Jason (this sites owner) when I asked him:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Rad,
Thanks for your emails. I do apologize it has taken some time for me to
reply back to you.
I had the chance to check out your site, it looks like very impressive work.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
and
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I operate a couple of the H2 forums:
http://www.elcova.com/h2
and
http://www.h2club.org
I see your point regarding just looking for interest and I am fine with you
posting, assuming you do not abuse it. You will likely have the most
success here:
http://www.elcova.com/groupee/forums
Good luck and let me know if you need anything else.
Regards,
Jason Rosoff
http://www.h2source.com
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It was worded that way, the part about 'apologizing if it was not allowed' because I had made another post on another site and cut-n-pasted the text to keep from having to rewrite "War and Peace", which is the norm for my posts. I had tried for a couple of weeks to reach the other sites owner (multiple emails, PMs, etc.) but never could get a response...but I did try. So I went ahead and apologized first, in case it was a problem and would have quickly deleted the post if they wanted. So I forgot to delete that line from the post here. Sorry.
Like I said, I've been on the net a long time, in fact I owned an ISP a little over 10 years ago. I'm a good netizen. I participate, ask questions, answer questions, learn, educate and have fun, not just point fingers or try to stir up trouble. Life is too short to waste time on negative stuff like that.
Anyway, sorry to the original poster that his thread got hijacked, I at least hope you got some good information out of it. I think you did get your questions answered. Superchargers are the most popular because they are cheaper and because there are more applications for them, more kits, mainly because they are a simpler system, less cost to develop, etc.
For the record, a proper turbo system can make boost and power about the same spot that a supercharger will, it all depends on the turbo selection and the design of the system. Sure, you can put turbos on it that will have nearly instant boost, but not any whopping power up top. I just don't believe in building a system like that, there is no need when you can get power down low AND all the way to the top.
What I meant about the 2500-3000rpm range was that a properly spec'd system would be making boost by then, not 'starting' to build boost. From the time you press the throttle down, how long does it take to go from a cruising speed of say 1500-2000rpms, up to 2500rpms? What, a half-second? Its not enough time to be concerned with, really. Turbos are pure torque. Mash the pedal, get the power. Most of the talk about 'turbo lag' is a wives tale or stems from improper system design and turbo selection, at least in this day and age.
Sorry for the long post, but when someone is throwing marshmallows at me, claiming they are oranges, I needed to clarify. If it had been some real issue or some actual wrong-doing, don't you think a person that does that kind of thing would have quietly slinked away at the first accusation, hoping it would quietly blow over...