Any 1911 fans on the board?

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:

If you want to be stupid with your own life, fine. Otherwise, move on and quit giving advice here on crap you know nothing about on something as important as this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


RAAARRR!!!!1 I am a goddamn navy bellhop and I know all...

RAAARRRRR!!!!1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You're an idiot. Kinda funny, but an idiot.
Sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
You're making a fool of yourself.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am deaf and I will thank you NOT to make fun of the handicap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This Toadies = AE for some dickhead

[PARAGON]

I didn't "knock" the 1911 per se. It's just not a good carry weapon for most applications. It is indeed heavy, is not very concealable, is more cumbersome on the draw, etc. It is about the application.

Advice is being discussed here and one has to take into account that you are talking an averaging of individuals and situations and what would fit most. A 1911 style just simply is not a friendly platform for a carry. I have an original Colt from WWII with the heavy, slopply trigger. But, I personally do not think the platform is the right one for the average person on a PD level.

Bondage, before you try to mouth off in any way, I would suggest you get your ducks in a row. Toadies made some comment about most engagements being made within 21 feet, hence my reference to feet. A handgun is for personal defense, period. You can't go around with an AR15 and a shotgun slung on your shoulders for personal protection. Optimum personal protection is to keep the target as far away as you are accurate and effective with your weapon. Since you can keep a target at much distance with a rifle it is the first choice of arms, second would be the shotgun, then the handgun, knife and lastly hand-to-hand. Since the first option most can have available to them at all times is the handgun, it is best to choose the one handgun that is the most applicable to the most possible situations. The fact that one can accurately engage a target further away and with more ammunition available without reload puts them at an advantage over the target in most situations.

At 5-10 feet the energy of the rounds of most large caliber handguns are sufficient to stop the target, so that is really a moot point as long as you have a handgun that is easily controlled in such an tense situation. You are no longer shooting at a paper target and taking out as many variables that would result in a miss or failed engagement has to be employed. This is why the Glock was developed. It is the easiest pistol to use and has a smooth profile.

[H3OwnerDiz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRTYFN:
This Toadies = AE for some dickhead </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Walc is in the building. Just a guess...

[H3OwnerDiz]

Here is my contribution to this thread... HK USP .45 COMPACT is what my hubby carries daily and he can't say enough about how great it is. Here's a link to the torture test, it can withstand an awful lot!

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
I didn't "knock" the 1911 per se. It's just not a good carry weapon for most applications. It is indeed heavy, is not very concealable, is more cumbersome on the draw, etc. It is about the application.

Advice is being discussed here and one has to take into account that you are talking an averaging of individuals and situations and what would fit most. A 1911 style just simply is not a friendly platform for a carry. I have an original Colt from WWII with the heavy, slopply trigger. But, I personally do not think the platform is the right one for the average person on a PD level.

Bondage, before you try to mouth off in any way, I would suggest you get your ducks in a row. Toadies made some comment about most engagements being made within 21 feet, hence my reference to feet. A handgun is for personal defense, period. You can't go around with an AR15 and a shotgun slung on your shoulders for personal protection. Optimum personal protection is to keep the target as far away as you are accurate and effective with your weapon. Since you can keep a target at much distance with a rifle it is the first choice of arms, second would be the shotgun, then the handgun, knife and lastly hand-to-hand. Since the first option most can have available to them at all times is the handgun, it is best to choose the one handgun that is the most applicable to the most possible situations. The fact that one can accurately engage a target further away and with more ammunition available without reload puts them at an advantage over the target in most situations.

At 5-10 feet the energy of the rounds of most large caliber handguns are sufficient to stop the target, so that is really a moot point as long as you have a handgun that is easily controlled in such an tense situation. You are no longer shooting at a paper target and taking out as many variables that would result in a miss or failed engagement has to be employed. This is why the Glock was developed. It is the easiest pistol to use and has a smooth profile. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I'd pretty much agree. But I wasn't "trying to mouth off"...I WAS mouthing off. My ducks WERE in a row, but I popped 'em all.

It is a fact that in the VAST majority of "personal defense" situations, you have no choice on distance - it is almost exclusively "up close and personal." If I wanted to reach out and touch someone, I'd opt for an M14 or Rem 700BDL over the Mattel toy anyway. (See...I know how to piss off a Jarhead) I was just trying to point out that your experience (and mine) is combat oriented and not really applicable to civilian self-defense - precisely because we cannot go properly armed with a rifle or shotgun! You are most likely quite efficient with your Glock. But, even with these older eyes, you'd be happy for me to have your back in any realistic self-defense scenario with my 1911. Hell, together, we'd probably even hit something. As for capacity, there is no denying a statitical edge in sheer numbers. HOWEVER...for fun sometime, compare rounds expended to casualties in WWII vs. Vietnam. It is astounding. Hundreds to one vs. MILLIONS to one! No kidding! BTW - we won the former and lost the latter..... I would go so far as to say that choice of weapon is the LEAST important factor in effective self-defense. Attitude, experience, and training make the real difference, huh?

Oh, and BTW, Toadies is a buffoon. You are right about giving advice in a forum that includes the likes of him. You and I sitting down together would probably agree far more than not.

BTW, I like the Glock. Well, I respect it. It just doesn't fit me well and the balance is odd to me - but then the 1911 is such an extension of my hand and arm that ANYTHING else feels odd. Yeah, I've shot it that much.

Welcome back, Paragon.


Sean

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRTYFN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:

If you want to be stupid with your own life, fine. Otherwise, move on and quit giving advice here on crap you know nothing about on something as important as this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


RAAARRR!!!!1 I am a goddamn navy bellhop and I know all...

RAAARRRRR!!!!1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You're an idiot. Kinda funny, but an idiot.
Sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
You're making a fool of yourself.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am deaf and I will thank you NOT to make fun of the handicap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This Toadies = AE for some dickhead </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at the big brain on Brad.. does mommie let you use the big boy chair at home???

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
I personally do not think the platform is the right one for the average person on a PD level.

Toadies made some comment about most engagements being made within 21 feet, hence my reference to feet. A handgun is for personal defense, period.

This is why the Glock was developed. It is the easiest pistol to use and has a smooth profile. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most people can't shoot so sure give em a 9mm pussy gun.

Most tactical engagements are 21 feet or less and LE experience comes a lot closer to real life than your pretend Marine experience. Ayoob has credentials, you have an innerweb rep.

Tupperware guns are for idiot operators that do not want to learn how to use a handgun so DAO is the best for those idiots..

[ree]

Toadies, what an idiot, you're all over the map on everything except your idiocy:
- Glocks only come in 9mm now, eh?
- Tupperware == DAO, huh?

I think many an experienced/non-idiot operator have explicitly chosen DA/SA and DAO guns specifically because they can take extra steps out of the equation during an up close situation when you're going to be impaired by an adrenaline spike. I primarily shoot a DA/SA for this reason...not because I'm too lazy to learn how to handle my weapon (btw it's tupperware too, just not a Glock, it's a Sig).

[Harley]

...careful there, toad... Most "Tactical" engagements involve the use of M4 rifles or MP5, in my experience... I wouldn't walk into anything w/ just a handgun intentionally. I carry glocks at work and Kimber Ultra CDP off duty.

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
Look at the big brain on Brad.. does mommie let you use the big boy chair at home??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is definitely NOT the real Toadies.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
Most people can't shoot so sure give em a 9mm pussy gun. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>We're on the same page, Bond.

Toadshiit, the US Armed Forces converted use from the .45 cal to the 9mm because of the range issue. As I understand things now, all Berettas are being worked out of service and replaced with SIG 229R DAK .40 cals because of the compromise of down-range energy and accuracy.

Storydud, you can't win an argument if the facts were written for you. Certainly you can't talk about guns or wheeling. Give it a rest, storyhut.

[Beastmaster]

Hmm..the Glock Kaboom! FAQ. Wow.

With the octagonal rifled barrel (on at least the .45's), along with the feed ramp setups on a stock Glock barrel, you should always use SAAMI spec factory ammo with new brass.

With that being said, my Glock 30, my Glock 21, and my wife's Glock 23 all have had many rounds of ammo through it (my 21's had nearly 10k rounds, my 30 about 3000, and my wife's 23 about 2500), with zero issues.

From a liability issue, my recommendation is to always keep ammo in it that a local law enforcement agency uses. All of my .45's use 185gr +P Winchester (which is what the County and State uses in their .45's), and the wife's uses the same Speer Gold Dot that the local police department uses in their Glock 22's and 23's.

As for more ammo the better - there is a reason why Massad Ayoob loves the Beretta 92F with the 20 round extended magazine filled with 115gr +P+....you never know when you need that many rounds, and in an extensive firefight, reloading may not be an option. That's why my wife's Glock 23 (when it's in her side of the nightstand safe) has the Glock 22 magazine in it.

Back to the question at hand, which is M1911 related - Once you pick a pistol, shoot with it over and over and over again. Get snap caps and practice holster draws, trigger pulls, sighting, hand placements. Do clearance drills over, and over and over again. Get it to where it's going to fit in your hand the same way every time, all the time.

I will say one thing. I've carried an M1911 for years. Trained with it, taught others how to use it, and it's unique compared to other pistols. You must be willing to carry in Condition 1 at all times.

Also be aware that there is some minor additional training and mind sets needed to carry in Condtion 1.

A great case in point is Low Ready/High Ready drills (and I'm talking competition shooting, not self defense). Low Ready, thumb safety on, high ready, thumb safety off. Drill that into your head over, and over, and over, combine that with practice draws, over, and over, and over.....

You don't have to worry about that with a Glock....your trigger finger along the frame is your safety mechanism.

The other thing would be this....and it's about personal preferences. You might not like the Wilson CQB (although I can't see why not) or any of the other ones. Despite the fact that I love my Wilson, I end up carrying my Gunsite modded stainless Combat Commander much more often (and shoot with it more as well) than I do the Wilson. Why? I can't say. I just do.

And I paid (with mods) far less for the Combat Commander than I did the Wilson, even though both have similar mods and tweaks...some by me, some by professional gunsmiths.

So, be careful about spending a ton on a pistol that you actually might not like.

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
Most people can't shoot so sure give em a 9mm pussy gun. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>We're on the same page, Bond.

Toadshiit, the US Armed Forces converted use from the .45 cal to the 9mm because of the range issue. As I understand things now, all Berettas are being worked out of service and replaced with SIG 229R DAK .40 cals because of the compromise of down-range energy and accuracy.

Storydud, you can't win an argument if the facts were written for you. Certainly you can't talk about guns or wheeling. Give it a rest, storyhut. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong again wannabe warrior. We "converted" to 9mm more for NATO compliance which is not really an issue anymore since we ARE NATO.

And yes we are going back to .40 or in some cases .357sig to get back to the performance of the venerable .45ACP. Deny it, pretend it's not the truth, I don't care. I will carry it and blow your dumbass away with one round to your three.

Get your facts straight pretend Marine.

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRTYFN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
Look at the big brain on Brad.. does mommie let you use the big boy chair at home??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is definitely NOT the real Toadies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am neapoleon

[Petey]

most marines being of the limp wristed variety need a weapon with a light kick.. not too stunning and a flat trajectory to stay on target

[Efrain]

Okay, so how many trolls are running loose in here? I'm starting to lose count

[ssgharkness020147]

I appreciate all the advise guys. I found a gun shop close by that is a Wilson dealer, I plan to go down there this week and demo a gun or two. So far (despite the STEEP price tag) I really like the Wilson Tactical Elite. All and all that would fit me and what I would like to go in to. I checked out that IDPA league Steve, I appeciate the tip, it looks like a blast and is exactly what I would really like to get in to. Thankfully there is also a gun club 5 minutes away that has IDPA too.

How many of you guys carry a gun in your truck? Here in WI the way the laws sit I can have a gun in the truck if its in a case and unloaded (a loaded clip can be right next to the gun though). With all my trips down to Milwaukee and the bad experiences down there I have come to the conclusion that it would be in my best intrests to have protection of some kind for my trips down there. I dont feel that pepper spray would be effective in most situations, the same goes for a stun gun. A tazer could help sometimes, but not always. Though I wonder with the way the laws sit here if my having some protection would even be worth it, and I do not and will not do anything that it not legally allowed. What do you guys think, is it worth having a gun in the truck if it has to be in a case and cannot be loaded while stored?

[Petey]

Actually Toadies is right all trolling aside. The 9mm Baretta has selected more for us to be in compliance with NATO for interchangability than the fact that it was a superior round.

Read and be informed.

http://www.sightm1911.com/M1911vsM9.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> In 1985, the United States Armed Forces replaced the M1911 with the Beretta 92 F to the everlasting consternation of 1911 devotees everywhere. There were several reasons for the switch. The U.S. was the only NATO country not using a 9mm as the standard issue sidearm and there was a desire to issue a pistol chambered for the ubiquitous 9mm for logistical reasons. The Beretta will hold 15 rounds in its magazine as compared with 7 rounds of the military issue 1911 magazine and is lighter and easier to field strip than the 1911. The double action/single action Beretta was perceived as being a safer pistol to carry in a state of readiness than the "cocked and locked" 1911. In some quarters, the .45 ACP was viewed as too powerful and difficult to control for those having only nominal training with the weapon.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beastmaster:
Hmm..the Glock Kaboom! FAQ. Wow.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. Nothing like having your pistol blow up in time of need.

Most LE are forced by departments to carry those ****ty pieces because Mr.Glock sucks major LE cawk. They practically give them to departments compared to Kimbers, HKs, Sigs, etc.

I wouldn't use one for a doorstop.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ssgharkness020147:
I appreciate all the advise guys. I found a gun shop close by that is a Wilson dealer, I plan to go down there this week and demo a gun or two. So far (despite the STEEP price tag) I really like the Wilson Tactical Elite. All and all that would fit me and what I would like to go in to. I checked out that IDPA league Steve, I appeciate the tip, it looks like a blast and is exactly what I would really like to get in to. Thankfully there is also a gun club 5 minutes away that has IDPA too.

How many of you guys carry a gun in your truck? Here in WI the way the laws sit I can have a gun in the truck if its in a case and unloaded (a loaded clip can be right next to the gun though). With all my trips down to Milwaukee and the bad experiences down there I have come to the conclusion that it would be in my best intrests to have protection of some kind for my trips down there. I dont feel that pepper spray would be effective in most situations, the same goes for a stun gun. A tazer could help sometimes, but not always. Though I wonder with the way the laws sit here if my having some protection would even be worth it, and I do not and will not do anything that it not legally allowed. What do you guys think, is it worth having a gun in the truck if it has to be in a case and cannot be loaded while stored? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Enjoy your new weapon. I think you've made an outstanding choice, now practice, practice, practice! You were too kind to call our rambling nonesense "advice." But take what Beastmaster said to heart - he is, IMHO, dead on. Go back and re-read his last post. I agree 110%.

As for carrying the weapon in your car, I understand and sympathize with you're wanting to follow the law. You're a good law abiding citizen. And that is why I urge you to break the law if you feel it is necessary for your personal safety and well being. Living in the People's Republic of Kalifornia, I do it just about on a daily basis and have never had a problem. The weapon is well secreted, and I know how to say "Yessir and Nosir" if I am pulled over for a traffic violation.

Good luck! Enjoy it!

Sean