safest wheel/tire package for everyday driving in dry/rainy conditions?

[tower]

Dear GH,

I know you are looking for the safest ALTERNATIVE to the BFG AT TAKO, but I must tell you that I am running my second set. I was looking for something a little more aggressive for off-roading. But both Mike Sabaresse (Cerritos Hummer Service Manager and National H1 racer) and Bill Burke (Off-Roading Guru) both said that for overall conditions (especially wet, ice and dry), they can’t be beaten.

I would consider the possibility that something (inadvertent or malicious) created a tear in your sidewall that let loose at a certain speed/temperature index.

I have no particular brand loyalty, but I do feel that this is one circumstance where, excluding specialized applications, the manufacturer really did put the best possible tires on the truck.

If you are absolutely bent on running something else, take a look at commercial truck tires. They come with 8 to 10 plies in the sidewall. This is way overkill compared to the 4 in the BFG’s, which are (nearly) indestructible. But the choice is yours.

[Beastmaster]

Having run BFG AT's in some variant over 8 years or so, I've always had good tire wear, very good performance, and not one failure. But that was always with lighter trucks with less grunt than Hummers provide. With that being said, I can definitely say that BFG AT's as a stock factory tire is probably one of the best things that could have happened to the H2.

In regards to this specific question, I have seen only one failure like what you've depicted. It was on an H1 who's tire delaminated like this after repeated airing down and reinflations. It created slanted stress cracks in the layer where the sidewall ends and the tread begins. The tread then separated from the rest of the tire carcass.

I then did a bit more research and came up with the same issue for other variants of the AT's and MT's.

I'd still say that for a street queen or a truck used for moderate to moderate-heavy off roading, the BFG AT is still a killer tire that I would have no problems trusting my family members lives with.

This is quoted from R. Thomas Cepek (of Dick Cepek fame) about this issue, called torque cracking.
----------
Question: I have been losing about ten pounds on my rear tires (BF AT/KO 37") every night. Brought the truck into the dealer for a look-see at the CTIS and the dealer noticed about ten evenly distributed "slashes" on the tires near where the sidewalls meet the tread.

Question #2: I've got a set of M/T KMs, 35x12.5R15, about 40k, recently they began to develop small slits between the small lugs that go down the sidewall, which results in a fully inflated tire going dead flat in a matter of minutes. The first time it happened I figured, well, strange spot but maybe I hit something. Second time was a different tire, same spot. So now I'm thinking, ok, wtf is going on here. Now today one of the same tires has developed the same thing in a different spot but in the exact same location, between the small lugs again. I'm going to try to get some money back for these POS tires. I also have to mention these tires were a warranty purchase(tread depth pro rated warranty of course) after my A/T KOs in the same size started to develop bubbles in about the same area as my M/Ts are failing. Hmmmm....and both times the store says, "Hmm, never seen that before."

Answer from RTC: I've seen this many times with BFG tires, and rarely with other types. If this, in fact, your problem, it's called Torque Cracking, and has a tendency to do this if the tires are run at lower pressure over an extended period of time.

BFG had a big problem with this when they first introduced the 31/10.50R-15 Radial TA, and it was caused at that time, because they used Rayon Cord as a body ply. It turned out that the Rayon is not that great of a body ply material and is not as extensible as it needs to be, when used in a body ply scenario. This can happen on any tire, and is typical of too low pressure and over heating of the tires. I would make sure you have them looked at closely, and perhaps have them adjusted by a BFG Zone manager. What can happen with those cracks, is that they begin to split open enough to let the elements get to the tire cord, and when that happens, the elements, (air, water, salt, etc.) can begin to "wick" through the tire cord, and cause seperations, bubbles, etc. and eventually a failure, usually that the most inopportune time. RTC

[PARAGON]

Greeny, since you are so hellbent on finding a tire/wheel combo that you think will not lose it's air, I offer you this as your option. No hydroplaning and excellent dry driving (that is since you are not concerned at all about ride quality or how it looks)

[kacyk]

If safety is your concern I would first start with your desire to go above an 18" wheel. I had 20" Lexani's on my H2 and although the ride was okay, the braking was horrible. When I went with 18" rims on my wife's H2, the brakes worked as good as stock.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by greenhummer:
Looking at either putting on 22" or 24" wheels with lower profile tires that will improve the handling and braking of the H2.

I'd prefer to get lighter (still strong) wheels on the truck. The look is not critical. i.e. not putting on spinners!

Would keep the original wheel/tire set for offroading weekends or trips to snowy places. The weather that I usually have to drive in is either dry or a bit rainy. Sometimes it is a LOT rainy.

Any suggestions? I don't want really *heavy* wheels that will slow down the acceleration and adversely affect the braking of the vehicle.

thanks,

Greenhummer '05 H2 SUV </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[greenhummer]

hi Kacyk,

What weight were the Leixani's? I see that Evo make some pretty lightweight forged wheels for the truck (32-36 lbs). Also, do you know the stock wheel offset? I'm sure I could dredge it off the board somewhere.

thanks,

Greenhummer

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kacyk:
If safety is your concern I would first start with your desire to go above an 18" wheel. I had 20" Lexani's on my H2 and although the ride was okay, the braking was horrible. When I went with 18" rims on my wife's H2, the brakes worked as good as stock.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by greenhummer:
Looking at either putting on 22" or 24" wheels with lower profile tires that will improve the handling and braking of the H2.

I'd prefer to get lighter (still strong) wheels on the truck. The look is not critical. i.e. not putting on spinners!

Would keep the original wheel/tire set for offroading weekends or trips to snowy places. The weather that I usually have to drive in is either dry or a bit rainy. Sometimes it is a LOT rainy.

Any suggestions? I don't want really *heavy* wheels that will slow down the acceleration and adversely affect the braking of the vehicle.

thanks,

Greenhummer '05 H2 SUV </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[PARAGON]

Dude, you are fighting a losing battle. It really doesn't matter what weight the wheels are. The factor that the weight of the tire/wheel combo play in the parameters that will fit a stock H2 will effect the braking distance is so little that it's negligible. You are stopping 7000lbs. Stopping 5 feet shorter is not a good cost/benefit ratio.

If you want to bling out your truck, just do it. Don't try to blow smoke around here about just wanting to stop or wanting better performing tire/wheel combos.

If you want to be able to stop in a shorter distance..... drive slower.

[h2co-pilot]

Just git a gawdam Minivan.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beastmaster:
Having run BFG AT's in some variant over 8 years or so, I've always had good tire wear, very good performance, and not one failure. But that was always with lighter trucks with less grunt than Hummers provide. With that being said, I can definitely say that BFG AT's as a stock factory tire is probably one of the best things that could have happened to the H2.

In regards to this specific question, I have seen only one failure like what you've depicted. It was on an H1 who's tire delaminated like this after repeated airing down and reinflations. It created slanted stress cracks in the layer where the sidewall ends and the tread begins. The tread then separated from the rest of the tire carcass.

I then did a bit more research and came up with the same issue for other variants of the AT's and MT's.

I'd still say that for a street queen or a truck used for moderate to moderate-heavy off roading, the BFG AT is still a killer tire that I would have no problems trusting my family members lives with.

This is quoted from R. Thomas Cepek (of Dick Cepek fame) about this issue, called torque cracking.
----------
Question: I have been losing about ten pounds on my rear tires (BF AT/KO 37") every night. Brought the truck into the dealer for a look-see at the CTIS and the dealer noticed about ten evenly distributed "slashes" on the tires near where the sidewalls meet the tread.

Question #2: I've got a set of M/T KMs, 35x12.5R15, about 40k, recently they began to develop small slits between the small lugs that go down the sidewall, which results in a fully inflated tire going dead flat in a matter of minutes. The first time it happened I figured, well, strange spot but maybe I hit something. Second time was a different tire, same spot. So now I'm thinking, ok, wtf is going on here. Now today one of the same tires has developed the same thing in a different spot but in the exact same location, between the small lugs again. I'm going to try to get some money back for these POS tires. I also have to mention these tires were a warranty purchase(tread depth pro rated warranty of course) after my A/T KOs in the same size started to develop bubbles in about the same area as my M/Ts are failing. Hmmmm....and both times the store says, "Hmm, never seen that before."

Answer from RTC: I've seen this many times with BFG tires, and rarely with other types. If this, in fact, your problem, it's called Torque Cracking, and has a tendency to do this if the tires are run at lower pressure over an extended period of time.

BFG had a big problem with this when they first introduced the 31/10.50R-15 Radial TA, and it was caused at that time, because they used Rayon Cord as a body ply. It turned out that the Rayon is not that great of a body ply material and is not as extensible as it needs to be, when used in a body ply scenario. This can happen on any tire, and is typical of too low pressure and over heating of the tires. I would make sure you have them looked at closely, and perhaps have them adjusted by a BFG Zone manager. What can happen with those cracks, is that they begin to split open enough to let the elements get to the tire cord, and when that happens, the elements, (air, water, salt, etc.) can begin to "wick" through the tire cord, and cause seperations, bubbles, etc. and eventually a failure, usually that the most inopportune time. RTC </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Tom Cepek is a good guy and knows his stuff.

Funny thing about that tire failure is that it's not a typical "uncapping." There are vertical tears in the sidewall indicating some type of foreign object puncture or something along those lines. Obviously the weak part is the sidewalls and just like when a balloon pops into many pieces, when a tire goes, it can separate rather violently and not just around the area of failure. That tire looks like more of a road hazard failure than simple tire failure.

[greenhummer]

Seems like I've really hit a sensitive nerve on this stock tire/wheel thing. It's almost like I'm a Prius owner looking to enrage some H2 owners. Fact is that just last week I got flipped off by some jackass university student. He carefully chose to flip me off from across the street and not in front of me.

If the weight combination is so negligible then why do guys with (heavy) cast 24" wheels find it harder to accelerate/brake? Rotational masses count way more than just vehicle mass. I could figure out the physics for you but I'd rather get my job done since I've got real work to do. In moving up wheel sizes, the goal is to go with a better quality forged alloy wheel that is lighter than the stock cast wheel. If I just want to add bling then I'd get whatever cheap cast wheels are out there.

Does anyone "get" that having a smaller sidewall will decrease the chance of a blowout given that the sidewall has a smaller height (distance from road to wheel lip) and is correspondingly stiffer?

I guess not. You're right. I give up.

Greenhummer

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Dude, you are fighting a losing battle. It really doesn't matter what weight the wheels are. The factor that the weight of the tire/wheel combo play in the parameters that will fit a stock H2 will effect the braking distance is so little that it's negligible. You are stopping 7000lbs. Stopping 5 feet shorter is not a good cost/benefit ratio.

If you want to bling out your truck, just do it. Don't try to blow smoke around here about just wanting to stop or wanting better performing tire/wheel combos.

If you want to be able to stop in a shorter distance..... drive slower. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[rocketw19]

i agree that a lower side wall will give you better handling. i also agree that your brakin distance will be longer with bigger rims. my 06sut has 24s with a 37" toyo and it stops fine if not i would have added a brembo 6 piston caliper and bigger rotars. i think the best combo that you are lookin at is a 20or22" wheel on 35" off road tires i like the bfg limited edition. if your H2 is an 03 with smaller brak set up get a brembo kit and youll be fine. on that note any tire can blow out. and any break rotor can crack or fail. BFG also makes a run flat tire that has a solid side wall and can go 60mph for 200 miles if completley flat.

[greenhummer]

hey Alec,

From your "punk" comment, I can only assume that you are either still waiting to graduate from High School or you've watched too many Clint Eastwood flics and your brain has gone soft...

:-)


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
A perfect combination of safety and looks Paragon. Where can I order these from?

Seriously,
You have been given good advice from a group of original 2003 H2 owners based on thier real world experience. If you are listening to what you are being told you will write off the blowout to bad luck and a fluke and keep the stockers.

Assuming that no one was injured and you got off the highway you actually had good luck and the vehicle performed great under the circumstances.

Go ahead and don’t listen to the experts and put 22’s on, maybe the truck will fair the same if another freak blowout happens and maybe it won’t, do you feel lucky punk?

I am wondering if Greeny is really an H2 owner or some troll BTW guys </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by greenhummer:
Seems like I've really hit a sensitive nerve on this stock tire/wheel thing. It's almost like I'm a Prius owner looking to enrage some H2 owners. Fact is that just last week I got flipped off by some jackass university student. He carefully chose to flip me off from across the street and not in front of me.

If the weight combination is so negligible then why do guys with (heavy) cast 24" wheels find it harder to accelerate/brake? Rotational masses count way more than just vehicle mass. I could figure out the physics for you but I'd rather get my job done since I've got real work to do. In moving up wheel sizes, the goal is to go with a better quality forged alloy wheel that is lighter than the stock cast wheel. If I just want to add bling then I'd get whatever cheap cast wheels are out there.

Does anyone "get" that having a smaller sidewall will decrease the chance of a blowout given that the sidewall has a smaller height (distance from road to wheel lip) and is correspondingly stiffer?

I guess not. You're right. I give up.

Greenhummer
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You need to go back to physics class. You seem to be incapable of comprehension. Rotational mass actually makes a lot of difference, but it is a factor of the overall picture. A 25lb overall saving at each wheel on a 7Klb truck is not going to provide you with a noticeable change in stopping distance. 25lbs on a 4Klb vehicle would be more noticeable. Understand now. There is a window that you are working within when dealing with the H2 and it's weight, aero, etc. override many of the "common" tweaks people do on other vehicles.

As far as your sidewall thoughts, go buy MT/Rs that have re-inforced sidewalls. Or better yet, put these on and you want have to pretend to worry about blowouts.

[h2co-pilot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by greenhummer:
hey Alec,

From your "punk" comment, I can only assume that you are either still waiting to graduate from High School or you've watched too many Clint Eastwood flics and your brain has gone soft...

:-)


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
do you feel lucky punk?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah, he's from the UK.

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Does anyone "get" that having a smaller sidewall will decrease the chance of a blowout given that the sidewall has a smaller height (distance from road to wheel lip) and is correspondingly stiffer?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We agree to disagree. Less rubber is not a safer tire. If that were so, then the safest tire would be a ...nevermind.

My problem with the low profile tire is the load rating. It is difficult at best to get the full load rating with low profile.

I think (opinion) you are reading to much into the one tire problem.

Although the factory does skimp on items, the tire/wheel combo is designed for the H2. And in the aftermath of the lying assclown Explorer fiasco, NO manufacturer is going to substandard the rolling hardware.

So, my answer to the "safest" tire is: a new tire. 1/2 life is time to buy new time. Period.

[HGW]

Wow---I am staying out of this one----22s or 24s will increase stoping distance. Load rating needs to be considered also. Ops, I guess I did not stay out after all. Forged 22s look good and can be found with the right tire but increased safety will not result.

[Beastmaster]

Care to explain the physics of this one? I can see bigger brakes = shorter stopping distance.

Here's my take on it.

If the overall tire size (total diameter) remains the same, AND the weight of the rotational mass remains the same (tire weight +wheel weight), along with the truck's weight remaining constant, you will see no stopping distance change.

If any factor of the above equation increases (tire diameter/larger tire, heavier tire, heavier wheel), your stopping distance increases.

Other factors also include contact patch (caster/camber ensuring the maximum amount of tire tread is on the ground while braking and/or wider tread for bigger contact patch) and tire composition.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummersGoneWild:
Wow---I am staying out of this one----22s or 24s will decrease stoping distance. Load rating needs to be considered also. Ops, I guess I did not stay out after all. Forged 22s look good and can be found with the right tire but increased safety will not result. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[kacyk]

Not sure what they weighed (I just liked the way they looked) but you have an excellent point! Weld makes an exceptional wheel and a 20" Weld wheel may weigh as much as a typical 18" wheel. The upsprung weight issue is the thing that creates the braking issue. I did consider Weld but those wheels are very expensive. But if you don't have a budget I'd go with 20 inch Weld's definately. Also, I think 20" is the max you should go. You can still put "meaty" tires on to maintain the off raod look of the H2. Here's my old Pewter H2 with 20's. I think it's a good balance.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by greenhummer:
hi Kacyk,

What weight were the Leixani's? I see that Evo make some pretty lightweight forged wheels for the truck (32-36 lbs). Also, do you know the stock wheel offset? I'm sure I could dredge it off the board somewhere.

thanks,

Greenhummer

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kacyk:
If safety is your concern I would first start with your desire to go above an 18" wheel. I had 20" Lexani's on my H2 and although the ride was okay, the braking was horrible. When I went with 18" rims on my wife's H2, the brakes worked as good as stock.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by greenhummer:
Looking at either putting on 22" or 24" wheels with lower profile tires that will improve the handling and braking of the H2.

I'd prefer to get lighter (still strong) wheels on the truck. The look is not critical. i.e. not putting on spinners!

Would keep the original wheel/tire set for offroading weekends or trips to snowy places. The weather that I usually have to drive in is either dry or a bit rainy. Sometimes it is a LOT rainy.

Any suggestions? I don't want really *heavy* wheels that will slow down the acceleration and adversely affect the braking of the vehicle.

thanks,

Greenhummer '05 H2 SUV </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[KenP]

[TXSUT]

Greenhummer,

Did I miss it, or are you continuing to avoid the request to elaborate on your tire pressure sensor?