'05 intermittent won't crank - start

[axxense]

Hello All. Picked up my first H2 a couple of months ago and love it, but, have just had my confidence level go way down... ...turn the key - nothing. Had it for a month and had no issues, whatsoever.

All electrical appears fine (lights, dash, etc.), yet, it doesn't crank, at all - turn the key and get zero crank. 1st time it happened, it started (cranked) about 10 minutes later. The very next morning, same thing - then it started about 2 minutes later. It then was 'fine' for a couple of days, then same thing - this time it started some 4-5 hours later. My battery tests fine at 13v. I torqued down the connections and did a test lead and it appears I have juice going to the starter. After tightening the battery and starter connections, it was fine for about a week - thought I had a corrosive/loose connection. It is doing it again now, though.

Ignition? Starter solenoid going south? Gearshift-in-park sensor/switch?

Can someone tell me of some things to check and how to check them (as if you are talking to a 2nd grader cuz I can be a moron)? My nearest shop is some 45 miles away and would rather make a good try taking care of it myself before having a mechanic charge me an arm and a leg to troubleshoot. If I can narrow it down, at least I can save some $ by doing the troubleshooting myself, if not actually fixing it. Thanks.

[H2R]

I have heard this before "ignition switch". The ignition switch wears out on these often.

[DRTYFN]

The search feature is your friend, mmmkay.

[axxense]

Right - the search is a good thing. It has revealed many posts with very similar, yet, not exactly the same issue.

Some pose viable troubleshooting, but, talk about jumping the relay, etc. - Apologies, yet, I am pretty clueless, so, I need it stated more like, 'place one end of your wire at X, the other end at Y, then do this, then that'.

I also read where some replaced the starter, some the ignition switch, another says it is the switch/sensor that let's the ignition know that the gearshift is in park. After having read the posts, I can conclude it might be the starter (solenoid) or it might be the ignition switch - some say it is the 'gearshift in park' sensor/switch.

Certainly I could replace one or the other or all three and might be good to go. What I would rather do is definitively find the problem and correct it, as opposed to guessing, having it start and thinking I am fine, then getting myself in a remote gorge in the Washington Nat'l forest and discovering it was something else. Like I said - I can go a week without having any issue. That is why I am asking how to troubleshoot it. Thanks for the responses - all VERY much appreciated! VERY.

[Rene S. Nielsen]

Hi

I would start with having the ignition switch changed. There seems to be a lot of problems with that one.

That fixed the issue that I had on my truck (same problem as yours)

Rene

[Gunzz]

Had it happen to me one time on my 05. Battery lights and all electrical were fine but when turn the ignition, no crank. Just like the old days I took a broom handle and banged on the starter from the passenger side. When I turned the ignition started right up. At least that limits me to believe I may have a faulty starter down the road a little later, but for now it has been ok.

If it happens again to you just give it a try. If it starts right up after a couple bangs at least you can probably now limit your trouble to the starter. If it doesn't work then you may have to do some testing of the ignition circuit.

Good luck.

[axxense]

Thanks for the help. It hasn't cranked for 2 days now.

Tapping the starter didn't help. I wonder exactly how to jump (arc/cross) the starter to see if it is dead. I was also hoping there would be some easy voltmeter check I could do while turning the key to 'start' to see if is the switch - something to keep me from replacing a component at a time only to have murphy toy with me - not discovering the prob - or worse - thinking I have fixed it cuz it cranks its random crank after I swap something out.

I have already spent more time reading the gazillions of posts than what it would take to swap out the engine

I suppose I will replace the ignition switch first and see what happens. That seems the least time and $ consuming of all of the options. I will give an update post after doing that.

I just dread replacing the ignition switch, then the starter, then the battery, then the neutral sensing switch, only to discover it was the last option that fixes it or to discover I still have some whacked out problem.

Thanks again.

[Rene S. Nielsen]

Hi

You could try to set the ignition switc to the normal running position and then hot wire the starter.

Best done from behind the right front wheel.

Get a screwdriver and hotwire the small therminal in the middel to one of the big ones. If you choose the wrong big one nothing will happen.

If you have tried both and still nothing then you have a starter problem.

If it cranks but won't start then the problem is not the starter and posible not the ignition switch.

Hope this helps, and if I'm mistaken please to correct me

Regards
Rene

[axxense]

Hi Rene,

Ok - Long-winded post coming...

Here is what I am deducing from your post...

...I am concluding that the smaller terminal is to the solenoid that pushes the starter in. In turn, the top-most larger terminal is what turns the gear and the bottom-most large terminal is the battery lead (power).

Here is what happened...

(with ignition switch in the 'run' position)

...jumped the smaller terminal to the top-most large terminal and got nothing (kind of figured such, as the bottom-most large terminal is the hot).

Jumped the smaller terminal to the bottom-most large (hot) terminal and got a little blue spark, but, no reaction.

This, now, confirms your post suggestion as being a starter problem.

I then jumped the two larger terminals (the top-most large and bottom-most (hot) large terminals), and the sarter spun (but, wasn't engaged, so, it didn't crank).

Soooooooooooooooooooo, the ultimate conclusion is, when I turn the the ignition switch, which I now believe is fine, all the way to 'start', the solenoid is not engaging, which, in turn, does not then power-up and engage, nor spin, the gear, which renders the no crank situation.

Lo, it appears you have helped me isolate the problem to my starter, and, more specifically, the solenoid.

I will pick up a new starter and install it and let you know how things turn out. Likely I won't have the time to do so until this weekend.

Does this all sound on the mark to you or you other guru-types?

It does bring up a question, however... ...why would power be going to the bottom-most large (hot) terminal when the key is in the 'run' position? I might guess (incorrectly, it appears ) that it would only have power when the key is turned all the way to the 'start' position - power goes to the bottom-most (hot) terminal, the solenoid then pops in, thus powering up and spinning the gear, cranking and starting the engine, the key is then let to return to the 'run' position, removing power from the bottom-most (hot) terminal, thus allowing the solenoid to return, thus removing power from the gear, stopping it from spinning. Does anyone feel like explaining this to me?

THANKS! I'll let you know how the starter replacement goes this weekend and likely bestow more thanks upon you!

[Rene S. Nielsen]

Hmm

If I remember correctly then I have 3 terminals on my starter

1 (big) goes directly to the batery positive.
2 (big) goes to ground (I thought) maybe it's just the other side of the solenoid.
3 (small) goes to ignition.

I jumped the 1 and the 3 in the above text and it started up no problem.

So I replaced the ignition key and that fixed the problem.

Just trying to help without you having to buy to many spare parts.

I would have thought that when the starter started to spin the it would automatically engage so your probably right that it's the starter.


Rene

[HUMTECH]

Get someone to hold the key in the crank position and check the small terminal on the starter with a testlight, if it lights you need a starter. You can also use a jumper wire at the starter relay, remove the relay and jump across terminal 30 and 87 if i remember correctly, this removes the ign switch from the circuit, if the starter cranks then it could be the ign switch.

[axxense]

Rene - you are, at least, pretty much, if not totally, correct - the smaller terminal is the 'start' (ignition) terminal. The bottom-most large terminal is power (hot). The other large terminal goes back in through the side of the cylinder body of the starter.

That still tells me when I jump the hot to the 'start' (smaller, ignition) terminal - I should get crank if all was fine with the starter.

I am, though, a little mystified by the starter gear spinning, but no engagement, when I jump the large hot terminal to the other large terminal. Wouldn't mind a bit if someone clued me in to that one.

I removed the starter relay and jumped 30 and 87, as you said, HUMTECH, and got nothing (well, maybe a teenie spark when I poked the lead in) - no crank, no spin, nada.

I also did something like HUMTECHs test light check... ...using a voltmeter, I clipped the red (+) voltmeter lead on to the smaller start (ignition) terminal. I then clipped the black (-) voltmeter lead on to the starter housing (ground). I then placed the voltmeter on the hood of the truck (so I could see it from the drivers seat - my voltmeter has way long leads) and turned the ignition all the way to start - the voltmeter read voltage (12ish volts).

This told me two things - the starter wasn't engaging and the ignition switch was working. If it read little to nothing, I may have thought an ignition problem - a bad ignition switch or something in the ignition circuit (likely, with a HUMMER, the ignition switch, as explained in other posts).

I think this single test is the easiest and most comprehensive - it will tell you almost definitively - A) You have a starter problem (if the voltmeter reads 12v+/- and the starter doesn't crank), or, B) You have an ignition switch (or something in the circuit) problem (if the voltmeter reads little to nothing). To do it, though, you will need a voltmeter that has about 3' leads (or longer!) or someone else to turn the key for you.

I don't think I can isolate it any further.

Again, I will replace the starter this weekend and post what I believe will be the final post to this thread.

Many, many, thanks to all. I believe I have totally nailed it down to the starter and haven't spent a dime. Sure, my time is worth something, yet, all I missed was some TV and gained a TON of knowledge. Maybe I can now help others, in the future.

[axxense]

You guys are AWESOME!!! Rene, HUMTECH, EVERYONE!!!

Replaced the starter tonight and all is fine - fired right up.

Thank you sooooooooooooooooooooo much. Your help was indispensable. VERY much appreciated!!!

[HUMTECH]

No problem, always glad to give a little advice when i can, just like everyone else on here. The plus is the good feeling you get from fixing it yourself without changing a bunch of parts but actually going through and diagnosing the problem part. Cheers, Jeff.

[H2Much]

Humtech has got to be the smartest guy I know. Every time I have had an issue, he usually calls it dead on from a description of the issue before the stupid dealership can after physically having it for 5 days, even after multiple visits and $$$. Thanks Humtech, you are a gift to the Hummer owners of the world. GM should hire you to reinnovate the next Hummer, so that it can be made without problems!!

[Rene S. Nielsen]

Hi

Glad it worked out and you where able to find the problem without buying too many spare parts.

This forum is the best of the best of the best.

If we had dealers here in Denmark with just about 1% of the knowledge of this forum I would be a richer man today.

Rene

[HUMTECH]

Originally Posted by H2Much

Humtech has got to be the smartest guy I know. Every time I have had an issue, he usually calls it dead on from a description of the issue before the stupid dealership can after physically having it for 5 days, even after multiple visits and $$$. Thanks Humtech, you are a gift to the Hummer owners of the world. GM should hire you to reinnovate the next Hummer, so that it can be made without problems!!

Thanks for the props, it all comes from dealer training and the fact i specialized in Hummer h1 and h2 since 2003. I have since moved into driveability and electrical diagnosis on all models at the same dealer. With working on the single platform daily it becomes a little boring after awhile but you do gain a good knowledge base of the truck and its common problems. Again thanks very much and i hope i can continue to help you guys out when i can, Cheers, Jeff.

[albertahummer]

hopefully your problem is gone, but if it isnt then there is an easy fix.
The starter is in behind your friont passenger wheel under and back of exhaust parts where the gasket is. Now there is a wire connected to the front end of the starter that is tigfhtened by a "approximately" 13 mm nut.
To tighten disconnect your positive battery post then untighten a little bit , clean or scrape connection point with screwdriver maybe, then tighten, and hook battery back up. Also easiest done when vehicle engine is cool because of proximity to exhaust. This is what i did and have not had the problem since with my H2 .