Dealer having trouble installing new radio

[ree]

My H2's been at the dealer for nearly two weeks for a variety of issues. The only remaining issue keeping me from getting it back is that the dealer is having trouble getting the replacement radio to work.

They ordered one, installed it, it didn't work. After assuming it was DOA, they ordered a second, installed it and it didn't work.

They didn't tell me what "didn't work" really means. They did reinstall the original, and "got it working" proving that the rest of the sound system was still intact. Now they're waiting on GM and Delphi for help with the new radios and are not having luck getting anywhere fast.

Does this sound like they're simply not programming the theft codes on the new radios to VIN match it to my truck? Or is the requisite VIN-matching something so obvious that any Hummer tech at a Hummer dealer is going to know to do this?

If the latter, what else might be wrong? I normally would only be curious about what the trouble is, but I want my truck back. If there's any expertise here that can be lent to speed it up, I'd hugely appreciate the ideas.


BTW, this is all to fix a scratched volume control on the original. They claim they can't just replace the knobs.

And no, I'm not trying to install a stolen radio!!!

[ree]

My H2's been at the dealer for nearly two weeks for a variety of issues. The only remaining issue keeping me from getting it back is that the dealer is having trouble getting the replacement radio to work.

They ordered one, installed it, it didn't work. After assuming it was DOA, they ordered a second, installed it and it didn't work.

They didn't tell me what "didn't work" really means. They did reinstall the original, and "got it working" proving that the rest of the sound system was still intact. Now they're waiting on GM and Delphi for help with the new radios and are not having luck getting anywhere fast.

Does this sound like they're simply not programming the theft codes on the new radios to VIN match it to my truck? Or is the requisite VIN-matching something so obvious that any Hummer tech at a Hummer dealer is going to know to do this?

If the latter, what else might be wrong? I normally would only be curious about what the trouble is, but I want my truck back. If there's any expertise here that can be lent to speed it up, I'd hugely appreciate the ideas.


BTW, this is all to fix a scratched volume control on the original. They claim they can't just replace the knobs.

And no, I'm not trying to install a stolen radio!!!

[kodiakz]

Well, like it or not, they now have a few extra radios. Just have them swap the button out from one of those and call it good. The Vin does not come preporgrammed and is programmed by the dealer or simply by plugging it in to your vehicle as it learns the first time it is powered up and communicates with the databus.

[Klaus]

I suspect they are not getting any audio. Since you have a 2003, it has a "LUX" stereo/amp combination. 2004 and later models started using "PREMIUM" audio systems (actually lower quality audio). If a "PREMIUM" stereo is connected to a "LUX" system, the result will be no audio (the unit will power up).

Just my guess...

[ree]

Thanks for the ideas. I will toss them to my service writer in the AM. Klaus, if it's what you say, then maybe they can simply do what Kodiakz says and get my H2 on it's way home.

Any other ideas still welcome.

[ree]

Story this morning is that:
- it is the right radio
- the dealer has replaced radios on '03s bunches of times without issues before
- the dealer has no other '03s handy to try the new radios in to see if it's an oddity with my truck only
- Delphi isn't being helpful (not answering or returning calls) and has suggested to dealer earlier this week that they're doing something wrong with the programming
- dealer says they have "TSIB" saying that defective surfaces on radio controls mandate replacing the head unit
- dealer doesn't want to attempt to pilfer knob from new radio as they wouldn't be able to return the part...I guess they don't want to own a new but scratched 03 compatible radio

It's a crazy waste of resources to fix some scratches The dealer feels that they're close to a resolution though. So they still have my truck. I guess I'll be H2-less for a while longer.

Anybody more ideas?

[ree]

Update: It's sort of fuzzy and they don't have all the details yet. They told me that the plugged in the old radio and checked the programming and it was totally different from what specs for my vehicle say it should be. Instead of using spec programming on the new radios, then reprogrammed the new ones with the same program that was in the old radios and it all works now.

Any one care to decipher what this might mean?

The service writer promises to share the detailed explanation of what they did once the tech gets it all written up for GM reimbursement.

[Klaus]

I still think they were trying to use a "Premium" head unit with a "Lux" system/amp.

[ree]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Klaus:
I still think they were trying to use a "Premium" head unit with a "Lux" system/amp. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So non-LUX stereo can be made to work with LUX amp with the right programming??? If so, do you lose sound quality in the process or is it just minor feature changes?

I guess we'll know if it's a "Premium" if it has the "Custom" Auto-EQ setting when I get it back, based on http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/6706011751/m/3.../674101709#674101709, and
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/6706011751/m/6...971054041#7971054041

BTW, I just found out that a Cadillac tech at the same dealer ran into a very similar sounding issue this past week on an Escalade, and supposedly solved it the same way. So it's sounding more and more like you're right.

[Klaus]

I've read some internet chatter that head units can be programmed for "Lux" or "Premium" with a Tech2 tool and a custom program from GM. Could be. I'm not a GM Tech (I only play one on the internet). There are some techs here that could confirm this.

The quality of sound is based on the amp, not the head unit. The "Lux" system has a better DSP in the amp.

[Planohummer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ree:
Update: It's sort of fuzzy and they don't have all the details yet. They told me that the plugged in the old radio and checked the programming and it was totally different from what specs for my vehicle say it should be. Instead of using spec programming on the new radios, then reprogrammed the new ones with the same program that was in the old radios and it all works now.

Any one care to decipher what this might mean?

The service writer promises to share the detailed explanation of what they did once the tech gets it all written up for GM reimbursement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
In the dealer's defense, GM has a little issue with software programming on non-NAV radios, esp on 2003 lux/non lux models. In a nutshell, you have to lie to the truck when you program the radio. Think of it as a combination lock with 8 different dials-any one of them incorrect will lock the system up.

[Planohummer]

As far as the technical details--
H2 has what is called a 'dumb' amp. It's not on the class-2 data line. If you program the radio for a vehicle with amp(which the H2 has), the radio sends a 5v class-2 signal to the amp. The 'smart' amp will read this as a signal to turn on. The 'dumb' amp will read this as a mute signal(usually supplied by the onstar VCIM). When you set up the programming on a 2003 H2 radio, you have to set it up as if there is no amp present. This is indicated nowhere in the programming steps-they just ask you if the vehicle has an amp or not for one of the many questions.

[ree]

FWIW and the curious needing closure:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">TECH'S NOTES:
Replace faulty radio. The radio we installed has no volume. See RO 349778. Part warranty.
Replaced faulty exchange radio with another exchange radio. New radio displays "CAL ERROR". Reprogram radio from SPS. Error message is gone but still no volume from radio. Recheck bulletins and PI's-none related. Had parts contact supplier-said to contact SPS and tech assist to see if a programming problem. Called tech assist (CASE #8721778). Did not have any suggestions-said it sounded like a program problem. Transferred me to SPS. SPS said (CASE #1210590) that I was programming it with the correct callibration. SPS suggested I contact SPECMO Corp on radio and suggested I call XXXX XXXX at Delphi Electronics. Left a voice mail for XXXX XXXX-was out of office till next week. Advisor decided to send original radio to SPECMO and have it repaired and sent back. While waiting on advisor to clear with owner I installed original radio and checked programming-found that original radio was programmed for options that vehicle did not have. Reprogrammed new radio for same options as old radio-system now works. Called SPS and tech assist and let them know about the problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've tried to get further elaboration on "found that original radio was programmed for options that vehicle did not have" and haven't [yet] gotten an answer.

[PARAGON]

No Audio Out of Speakers At Times (Reprogram Radio and/or Replace Amplifier) #02-08-44-020B - (02/27/2003)
Table 1: Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche, Express, Sierra (except Denali), Yukon (except Denali), Yukon XL (except Denali), Savana (with UB0, UB1 or UC6 Sound Systems without Y91 Option)
Table 2: Yukon Denali, Yukon Denali XL, Sierra Denali, Escalade, Escalade EXT (with UQ7 Premium Sound System with Y91)
Table 3: HUMMER H2 Vehicles (with UQ7 Premium Sound System)
No Audio Out of Speakers At Times (Reprogram Radio and/or Replace Amplifier)
2003 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade EXT

2003 Chevrolet Avalanche, Express, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe

2003 GMC Savana, Sierra, Sierra Denali, Yukon, Yukon Denali, Yukon XL, Yukon Denali XL

2003 HUMMER H2

This bulletin is being revised to clarify the models and the approved repair procedure. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 02-08-44-020A (Section 08 -- Body and Accessories).

Condition
Some customers may comment that at times there is no audio out of any speakers. However, on the next key cycle the audio system may perform properly.

Cause
An anomaly within the amplifier/radio operating systems may cause this condition.

Correction

Important
Pay particular attention to this correction procedure, it is somewhat complicated. The repair varies based on the vehicle sound system. Refer to the Service Parts Identification (SPID) Label of the vehicle being repaired. The type of sound system in the vehicle will determine the repair procedure.


Determine the regular production option (RPO) code of the sound system in the vehicle from the SPID label.
Install the Tech 2® to the vehicle DLC and determine the part number of the radio software and the amplifier part number.
Refer to the tables below to determine the correct repair(s).
Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, Avalanche, Express, Sierra (except Denali), Yukon (except Denali), Yukon XL (except Denali), Savana (with UB0, UB1 or UC6 Sound Systems without Y91 Option) If Radio Operational software is
Radio re-programming required?

15184928, or 15184929
YES

15100936, or 15100937
NO



Notice
BEFORE DISCONNECTING ANY AUDIO SYSTEM COMPONENT IN A VEHICLE WITH THE BOSE® AUDIO SYSTEM, THE 30 AMP AMPLIFIER FUSE MUST BE REMOVED FROM THE ENGINE WIRING HARNESS JUNCTION BLOCK. Failure to remove the 30 AMP fuse from the UBEC can result in a damaged Bose® amplifier.



Important
DETERMINE THE SOFTWARE NUMBER OF THE RADIO AND THE AMPLIFIER. THE RADIO MAY NEED REPROGRAMMING, OR THE AMPLIFIER MAY NEED REPLACEMENT ONLY. NOT ALL VEHICLES WILL NEED BOTH A RADIO REPROGRAMMING AND AMPLIFIER REPLACEMENT.


Yukon Denali, Yukon Denali XL, Sierra Denali, Escalade, Escalade EXT (with UQ7 Premium Sound System with Y91) If Radio Operational software is
Radio Re-programming required?
If Amplifier part number is
Install new Amplifier Part Number

15184928, or 15184929,
YES
--
--

15100936, or 15100937..
No
--
--

--
--
15054675 or 15188461
15191601



Notice
BEFORE DISCONNECTING ANY AUDIO SYSTEM COMPONENT IN A VEHICLE WITH THE BOSE® AUDIO SYSTEM, THE 30 AMP AMPLIFIER FUSE MUST BE REMOVED FROM THE ENGINE WIRING HARNESS JUNCTION BLOCK. Failure to remove the 30 AMP fuse from the UBEC can result in a damaged Bose® amplifier.



Important
DETERMINE THE SOFTWARE NUMBER OF THE RADIO AND THE AMPLIFIER. THE RADIO MAY NEED REPROGRAMMING, OR THE AMPLIFIER MAY NEED REPLACEMENT ONLY. NOT ALL VEHICLES WILL NEED BOTH A RADIO REPROGRAMMING AND AMPLIFIER REPLACEMENT.


HUMMER H2 Vehicles (with UQ7 Premium Sound System) If Radio Operational software is
Radio re-programing required?
If Amplifier part number is
Install new Amplifier Part Number

15064068, or 15064070
YES
--
--

15100936, or 15100937
NO
--
--

--
--
15177435
15188044


Parts Information
Part Number
Description
Qty

15191601
Amplifier

(All except HUMMER H2)
*

15188044
Amplifier

(HUMMER H2 only)
*


*Do not order an amplifier for stock. A limited number of units are available at this time. Order the amplifier on an as needed basis for the repair of a specific vehicle.

Reprogramming Software
The software necessary to reprogram the radio was released on TIS version 1.5, of January 2003.

Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time

N4199
Module, Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC) - Reprogram
0.4 hr

If the amplifier was replaced, use the published labor operation time for the vehicle repaired.



GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information. WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Document ID # 1252286

[ree]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ree:
I've tried to get further elaboration on "found that original radio was programmed for options that vehicle did not have" and haven't [yet] gotten an answer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Final answer from tech is that the options label in the glove box was missing the amp code. Their language was that the original radio "was programmed for Luxury/Premium sound but the code for that system was missing from the options label." Ambiguous as this is, I think they meant that I have the LUX amp as everyone here explained. I've got the UB1 and UQ7, but no Y91 or Y92.

So the TSB paragon posted fits my vehicle and it's also consistent with Klaus's and Plano's comments.


One last barage of questions. My understanding on the option codes is:
UB1 = AM/FM, CD, Casette
UQ7 = Premium Sound System
Y91 = Lux amp
Y92 = Premium amp

What exactly is the UQ7 Premium Sound System and how does it relate to the UB1 and Y91 options? Does the UB1 just designate the options on the stereo, and this is combined with the UQ7 to fully specify your head unit? Or is it the wiring harnesses or something else external to the head unit and amp?

BTW, my Auto Eq doesn't offer the "Custom" setting, so doesn't that mean I've got a LUX head unit? Or does that option go away if you program a premium head unit to talk to a LUX amp.


Confused, but unwilling to give up.