A request from a fellow wheeler

[JRT]

Sorry mods if this is in the wrong forum but I needed to take this opportunity to voice a concern.

I've read quite a few of the threads on this board , I came on your site because of the trash talking sorrounding the Disco thread and have seen one thing that truly concerns me. I have seen multiple pics on this board showing blatant disregard for our trail systems. The Rubicon thread shows a rig cruising out of the lake near the slabs. There is not a legal trail within a 1000 yards of where that rig is, let alone in the middle of the lake. The White Mtn thread shows rigs parked on top of the bushes. I personally spent my free time working that trail trying to get it back in shape after the Willow Fire. It took 3 years to convince the USFS to reopen it. It could literally take that one pic to close it.

I see a tremendous amount of ego-centric attitude, and based on your own comments, that is a perk of being in the 'Upper' class. I've seen people on this board who view it as a good thing that the trails are closed to the public, because it'll weed out those poor unfortuante people who couldn't afford to pay to wheel.

This isn't a 'Hummers Suck' thread, to each there own on the vehicle they choose to use to get out onto our public lands. I drive a yota, by choice, because I like to traverse truly extreme trails. I respect your choice in your vehicle and I am asking for the same respect with regards to OUR land.

And before the cool group comes through and trys to slam me for being a lower class troll, you're more than welcome to stop by my house in Lake Arrowhead or my Software Development Firm in Twin Peaks and have that conversation face to face.

Regards

See you on the trail

Dave

[JRT]

Sorry mods if this is in the wrong forum but I needed to take this opportunity to voice a concern.

I've read quite a few of the threads on this board , I came on your site because of the trash talking sorrounding the Disco thread and have seen one thing that truly concerns me. I have seen multiple pics on this board showing blatant disregard for our trail systems. The Rubicon thread shows a rig cruising out of the lake near the slabs. There is not a legal trail within a 1000 yards of where that rig is, let alone in the middle of the lake. The White Mtn thread shows rigs parked on top of the bushes. I personally spent my free time working that trail trying to get it back in shape after the Willow Fire. It took 3 years to convince the USFS to reopen it. It could literally take that one pic to close it.

I see a tremendous amount of ego-centric attitude, and based on your own comments, that is a perk of being in the 'Upper' class. I've seen people on this board who view it as a good thing that the trails are closed to the public, because it'll weed out those poor unfortuante people who couldn't afford to pay to wheel.

This isn't a 'Hummers Suck' thread, to each there own on the vehicle they choose to use to get out onto our public lands. I drive a yota, by choice, because I like to traverse truly extreme trails. I respect your choice in your vehicle and I am asking for the same respect with regards to OUR land.

And before the cool group comes through and trys to slam me for being a lower class troll, you're more than welcome to stop by my house in Lake Arrowhead or my Software Development Firm in Twin Peaks and have that conversation face to face.

Regards

See you on the trail

Dave

[DennisAJC]

DAVE,

I'd probably be one of those FEW who would probably do something like that. Not out of disregard, but probably from inexperience or lack of proper signs. Alot of us on this Forum are obviously like yourself; educated, hard working, and possess some common sense. Mabye we are "Upper Class" but like me, most of us were not like that in the begining so we do understand. It's really cool that you hold a deep respect for natures well-being.

As for this Forum and TROLLING, our egos do get carried away from time to time. It's an H2 thing. We only get agressive to those who try to disrupt the Forum so don't take the bashing and funny pics too seriously. It's not meant for bonifide members as yourself.

My Vice Pres. and my Sales Manager easily had the option to buy H2s but they were Toyota and Land Rover lovers.

I hope you stay on this Forum for the FUN. As for your main point...well taken. Dennis

He ain't heavy.....
He's ma HUMMER baby!
03 NUDE Pewter Lux H2
03 Dressed Range Rover

[H2 Bill]

Dave,
Welcome to the forum! Your point is well taken. We all need to respect the lands that are open to us or they will all disappear through legislation. If we are not familiar with the areas that we are going to traverse then we need to do some homework before we go or at the least stay on the marked trails. Thanks for your comments.

2003 H2 Hummer, Yellow,Polished Whipple Supercharged, Edelbrock ceramics, catback,18" Ambush w/mudders,lots of goodies!
Y2K Corvette Millennium Yellow Convert/Blk/Blk, B&B headers, B&B Tri-Flo's, H-Tech MAG,GMS MAF, RM Racing TwinFlow.
1994 Chev 454 Suburban, Blown, Doug Thorley
1970 Trans Am, balanced, blue printed, Hooker ceramics

www.4swimwear.com

[Kevin B]

JRT,

WOW How can you argue with that;

_______________________________________________
--I've read quite a few of the threads on this board , I came on your site because of the trash talking sorrounding the Disco thread and have seen one thing that truly concerns me. I have seen multiple pics on this board showing blatant disregard for our trail systems. The Rubicon thread shows a rig cruising out of the lake near the slabs. There is not a legal trail within a 1000 yards of where that rig is, let alone in the middle of the lake. The White Mtn thread shows rigs parked on top of the bushes. I personally spent my free time working that trail trying to get it back in shape after the Willow Fire. It took 3 years to convince the USFS to reopen it. It could literally take that one pic to close it.
_______________________________________________

I agree there are alot of people Hurting their own "cause" by behaving this way. From the late 70's I have seen so much of the desert closed to ORV activity and it is only getting worse.


_______________________________________________
I see a tremendous amount of ego-centric attitude, and based on your own comments, that is a perk of being in the 'Upper' class. I've seen people on this board who view it as a good thing that the trails are closed to the public, because it'll weed out those poor unfortuante people who couldn't afford to pay to wheel.
_______________________________________________

Please don't "lump" us all into that catagory, there are those who have been doing this responsibly, and in other vehicles for a while.

Im not a "rich kid" just a hard worker but the perception I get, being a Hummer owner, from a lot of people is to the contrary.

Thanks for your concern and thanks for your post

[This message was edited by N2ITNSD on 10-01-03 at 12:48 PM.]

[SOFTTAILJC]

Dave, your points are well taken....hope you posted them else where as well.....i'd wheel with ya anytime......soft

[Hummer Man]

Dave, You are right on the money. Those are both examples in your post of how a few bad apples spoil the barrel. I have seen PUBLIC LANDS closed to motorized vehicles over one incident. Thanks for taking the time to point this out. The H2'ers are great people in general and probably did not realize the impact. It only takes a sec to undo years of growth and protected habitat.

Thanks Again with much respect, Hummer Man

[Cranky Steve]

Dave, all good points. I posted to the Rubicon thread info on the Rubicon and the efforts that are ongoing to perserve and protect it. Well, all I can say is I am very pleased at the positive response the folks here gave the post. It is leading to a group of H2 folks and some Rubi regulars to join up and wheel the con together. It does not get any better than that!

Founding Member of RCRC 4wd Club Scaramento, CA www.rcrc4x4.com
Pirate4x4.com Vendor & Toyota Truck and 4Runner Talk Forum Moderator

[DRTYFN]

Dave,
Good post. Again, thanks for all of your info.
I know that everyone is really looking forward to the beautiful scenery and the challenges of the 'Con.
I watched an off-roading video last night called "Pirates of the Rubicon", and it is a perfect example of what NOT to do on the trail.
Regardless of the make of your vehicle we've all got to do our part to help maintain the trails so that everyone can have the chance to enjoy them.

[blackhawkdown]

Dave,

I was with the group of 3 H1's and 4 H2's where the pictures were taken.

First off, the spot where the H1 (no it wasn't me) backed into the water was directly on the main trail. It was actually a turn-out and appeared to be a boat launch (this was before the first split between the staging area and the rock garden), and we were letting a group of jeeps pass by. Granted, in retrospect, it was probably a bad idea for the driver to back into the water, but he just did it for the photo, and he definately did not blaze any new trails to get there. You are 100% incorrect with this statement "There is not a legal trail within a 1000 yards of where that rig is".

The photo of where the trucks are lined up just short of observation point are not on any bushes. All of the trucks are on granite slabs that had plenty of tire tracks there before. We were very careful to stay on the slabs as well and not get into any vegetation. We actually spent a good deal of time picking up some trash from a capsite that was in evidence where the picture was taken.

I for one ALWAYS practice "Tread Lightly" principles, and always lend a hand when someone on the trail is in need. I take offence when someone jumps to conclusions about stuff and makes poor assumtions without checking out the facts.

[Buckeye Hummer]

Thank you blackhawkdown! It is irritating to have people jump in the forum and make assumptions. In our most recent white mountain run we were incredibly respectful of the trail, left absolutely no trash and even did some trail repair from someone else before us who had torn it up. We also discarded of some old shells we found up there from who knows when. It's easy to pick apart a photo and be the armchair ref in front of the computer. I'm glad you clarified what was in these photos.

[JRT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> It's easy to pick apart a photo and be the armchair ref in front of the computer..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, thanks for the welcome, second...

my point was that there are many people out there that are being an armchair ref and twisting what maybe a perfectly legitimate picture and using it againist us in our fight to keep the trails open. My only assumption is that a group that is under some much unfair criticism, like yourselves as a collective (the whole gas guzzling bull****) would understand what's like to have a politically powerful enemy trying to take away the things that you like to do.

by the way, here is the White Mtn pic and I'm specifically refering to the rig in the upper right. It's just an example and I realize its along way from destroying our environment, but it is little stuff like this that makes it difficult the next time they close our trails.




anyway, thanks for the positive response, it's obvious that you guys get it. I look forward to seeing you all on the trail.

Dave

[blackhawkdown]

Dave,

First, I misread your first post and though you were talking about bushes on the Rubicon where we parked on the granite for our group photo that I knew we avoided ... I was not with the white mountain crew and can't speak for them ... sorry for the misread ...

Second, I am an H1'er that gets pretty good diesel milage, but I do get your point ... thanks for the concern ... maybe I'll see you on the trails sometime.

[DocH2]

In regards to Dave's post:

I too think that the testosterone flows a bit too freely with some of the posts but being an ex-bodybuilder/gym rat...I've heard worse.

The assumption of the lake seen with the H1 not being 1000 yards from the trail is incorrect. I was there and could have hit a 3 wood into the lake from the trail...and no I don't have Tiger's length off the tee.

I would personally like to thank Dave and others that have worked to maintain that trail as for a first time newbie, it was quite an experience.

enuf said

[JRT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DRTYFN:

I watched an off-roading video last night called "Pirates of the Rubicon", and it is a perfect example of what NOT to do on the trail.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I call bull****. POR is a club who's entire mission is predicated upon keeping trails and especially the Con open for all to enjoy. What specifically did you find so objectionable?

[DRTYFN]

JRT, have you watched the video I'm talking about?

Specifically they (some of them) tore the **** out of everything they came into contact with. From doing burnouts on the granite slabs when they could have backed up and gotten a better run at it, to constantly tipping their rigs over laughing about it and then continuing to gun the engine and crawl sideways (for no other reason than to act like dicks) when they should have turned it off and righted the rig.
Putting a tire up to an obstacle and gunning it to bounce & claw a rig over an obstacle while tearing the hell out of everything isn't exactly what I'd consider "Tread Lightly".
Plus the drunken hillbilly philosophy was lame. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about going out and having a great time (beer included), but these nitwits were doing more harm than good to our off-roading privileges.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I call bull****. POR is a club who's entire mission is predicated upon keeping trails and especially the Con open for all to enjoy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They sure as hell didn't show that in this video. By the way, I took it back and traded it for a different video.

[Dan]

Hey. What's that big freekin' white thing on top of the H2 in the middle of that pic??

Looks like a mattress!

- Dan

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SUT on order 12/02. 10 months down, 8 to go!
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[Buckeye Hummer]

Dan,

This guy had some kind of storage in a metal box on top of his H2. It does kind of look like a mattress from above. I couldn't figure out why he came with it. It scraped on every overhanging limb over the trail. I don't like storing cargo on top as I want to keep the center lower on the vehicle (I'm directly behind him in the Pewter H2 with the hatch open.

[Zing]

That's it all you west coast people are grounded for the weekend. NO offroading until Monday.

I personally appreciate your post Dave and I think everyone here agrees with you. I don't understand your point about ego-centric, upper class, weeding out people who can't afford to wheel, etc. though but in any case stop by anytime.