Hotel clerk takes out the trash!

[CampMaster]

Can't believe the mom's reaction - or lack of action I should say. I hope that little girl's hearing is ok...

Motel clerk shoots a badguy - Video
http://media.putfile.com/How-To-Make-Swiss-Cheese80

News story: http://www.nbc4i.com/news/4819485/detail.html

[Mr. I - Man]

That made my Fukking day!

Bad guys check in and get a 9mm "Express Check-out"

[CampMaster]

Between the clerk's aim and reaction near the door and what I think is a heel... I think the scum dropped right outside the door.

Hope the clerk gets a raise, a medal and few paid days off!

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by CampMaster:
Between the clerk's aim and reaction near the door and what I think is a heel... I think the scum dropped right outside the door.

Hope the clerk gets a raise, a medal and few paid days off!

I hope he gets a bigger gun and a better aim. Merely wounding them shouldn't be an option.

[PARAGON]

Not to be a kiljoy, but it would be interesting to know the whole story.

The clerk escalated things, which is fine, maybe his timing was a little bad since he was using the other clerk for cover (although she could probably absorb a few hits) but the continued shots while the guy flees and he is firing within inches of the mother/daughter,well, damn, that could have been a bad deal.

That could have easily gone very bad and all been on the law abiding shooters hands.

Also, it appears he was going to hesitate once he pulled his weapon, which is probably what allowed it to follow through as it did. He needed to have just pulled and shot.

<font size=1>[i]Disclaimer:
Of course this is Monday morning quarterbacking, it's a video and we have the ability to pre-think what might or could have happened. Video of actual happenings give us that luxury and it is not, for me, a matter of second guessing the clerk, but analyzing what I might would have liked to have done different had I been in the same situation.[i]</font>

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
Not to be a kiljoy, but it would be interesting to know the whole story.

The clerk escalated things, which is fine, maybe his timing was a little bad since he was using the other clerk for cover (although she could probably absorb a few hits) but the continued shots while the guy flees and he is firing within inches of the mother/daughter.

That could have easily gone very bad and all been on the law abiding shooters hands.

Also, it appears he was going to hesitate once he pulled his weapon, which is probably what allowed it to follow through as it did. He needed to have just pulled and shot.

<font size=1>[i]Disclaimer:
Of course this is Monday morning quarterbacking, it's a video and we have the ability to pre-think what might or could have happened. Video of actual happenings give us that luxury and it is not, for me, a matter of second guessing the clerk, but analyzing what I might would have liked to have done different had I been in the same situation.[i]</font>

You're absolutely right about the clerk escalating things. That was pretty reckless shooting with that woman & her child in the line if fire.

[CampMaster]

The clerk did not escalate things... he matched what the bad guy brought.

From the looks of it, the clerk did hesitate - though it's almost guarenteed this is the first time he ever hat to draw on someone for real. That is a huge mental jump to hurdle.

If he had fired from the left side of the other clerk he would have endangered the child even more.

Had he pushed the clerk down and away, he would have tipped his hand sooner and given the scum more of a chance to get the first shot off.

The fastest way to get the most clear shot (given everyones position and furnishings) was to move around behind the other clerk. There wasn't another location for the clerk to protect everyone else which would have been better. He moved to get a clear line between him and the scum - away from the kid. The mom should have grabbed the kid and dropped back to the ground... though these things happen so fast.

Once the scum had drawn and from the sounds of it, racked a round, she should have grabbed the kid and faded back to try to get out of the scums line of sight... even dropping to the ground would have been better than just standing there.

Drawing from behind the other clerk allowed him to get the first shot and promptly caught the scum off-guard.

[Mr. I - Man]

The glass door didn't shatter which leads me to believe all or most shots hit their mark.

[ShaggyX]

I love that song. That is all.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by CampMaster:
The clerk did not escalate things... he matched what the bad guy brought.

From the looks of it, the clerk did hesitate - though it's almost guarenteed this is the first time he ever hat to draw on someone for real. That is a huge mental jump to hurdle.

If he had fired from the left side of the other clerk he would have endangered the child even more.

Had he pushed the clerk down and away, he would have tipped his hand sooner and given the scum more of a chance to get the first shot off.

The fastest way to get the most clear shot (given everyones position and furnishings) was to move around behind the other clerk. There wasn't another location for the clerk to protect everyone else which would have been better. He moved to get a clear line between him and the scum - away from the kid. The mom should have grabbed the kid and dropped back to the ground... though these things happen so fast.

Once the scum had drawn and from the sounds of it, racked a round, she should have grabbed the kid and faded back to try to get out of the scums line of sight... even dropping to the ground would have been better than just standing there.

Drawing from behind the other clerk allowed him to get the first shot and promptly caught the scum off-guard.

Way too many assumptions made.

Regardless, to say the clerk did not escalate things is a clear misunderstanding. The BG fired only after the clerk drew and the clerk's hesitation allowed a relatively close shot, notice the shot hits in the lower left frame in the video right before the flinch. Had he waited 3 seconds, 5 seconds things could have been different.

As I said very clearly the video allows us to analyze his actions and try to apply them to ourselves and help us to avoid mistakes should these situations happen to come up. By drawing on the BG and not immediately firing he simply created an immediate threat to the other clerk's life. Then his tunnel vision, which is what occurs in these situations, followed the BG to the door while firing and just before firing through the kid.

From the point he committed to his weapon, things were going to be out of control as the other variables were not anywhere near in his control. Things could have stayed under control and he still have the option to use his weapon if things progressed. Especially as the BG would have been taking the cash.

Action always beats reaction, but indecisive action gets you or someone else killed. He, frankly, just got lucky.

Can't say I would do anything different because video doesn't give you the entire "feel" for the scene. You can't imagine, regardless of how many cameras, mics, or eyewitness accounts you have, exactly how things felt unless you were there.

BUT again, the video allows us to "pretend" we were there and what would be better options.

BTW, the "racked a round" sound was probably added, I doubt it's not part of the original video.

[GeorgeSSSS]

IMO the clerk didn't escalate things at all. A bad guy comes in with a gun and demands money. There's nothing to say that after you give to him he isn't going to kill all of the witnesses. That was Tookie Williams' M.O.

If someone threatens you with a gun and you can shoot first, do it. Fortuantely, our night clerk did a good job and didn't hit any friendlies. Note his stance and grip technique. He was trained in how to handle the firearm and did a good job with it.

George SSSS

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by GeorgeSSSS:
IMO the clerk didn't escalate things at all. A bad guy comes in with a gun and demands money. There's nothing to say that after you give to him he isn't going to kill all of the witnesses. That was Tookie Williams' M.O.

If someone threatens you with a gun and you can shoot first, do it. Fortuantely, our night clerk did a good job and didn't hit any friendlies. Note his stance and grip technique. He was trained in how to handle the firearm and did a good job with it.

George SSSS

Escalation occurs when you force something to occur. He forced the "shootout." He caused the escalation.

Watch the video in slow motion and watch the glass in the background (you can see what's going on)

HINT: when the clerk draws he tries saying something to the BG. The BG goes to his knees and fires into the ceiling, the clerk flinches and then fires in response his first shot hitting the wall above the door. His other two shots could have both been on their mark, one obviously had to be.

He is not trained, not trained for that situation. Training tells you when, how and under what circumstances to draw your weapon. He tried to pull a John Wayne and simply got lucky.

Also, after further discussion with others on this, this clerk is the one who made the damn video and is quite proud of himself and that is him in the picture at the end. There are plenty of edits in the video, mainly being when the BG enters.

There is the weirdness of the lady with the kid not reacting at all to the display of a gun on the part of the BG until the clerk draws his gun, no reaction from the kid either. There are more questions with this video than there are conclusions and certainly that this is a good shoot by a trained person in control, is not one of them.

[GeorgeSSSS]

Paragon, old buddy, I don't think you are qualified to tell others not to protect their lives when confronted with lethal force. Results count, and the night clerk got the right result.

George SSSS

[MovinH2]

You're absolutely right about the clerk escalating things. That was pretty reckless shooting with that woman & her child in the line if fire.

Yeah damn. X2

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by GeorgeSSSS:
Paragon, old buddy, I don't think you are qualified to tell others not to protect their lives when confronted with lethal force. Results count, and the night clerk got the right result.

George SSSS

Actually, you are wrong. He chose to risk other's lives and the ends does not always justify the means.

If it was just him, fine. But he made bad decisions and is now beating his chest about it.

Here is the clerk's latest quote on the subject:

I'm wearing just a cheapie nylon in the waist band holster. I like them. I didn't make the video, my roomate did. Just for clarification, I had nothing to do with the making, picking of the soundtrack, or any other involvement in the editing in the video. Not that I care, but I didn't want any part of it just in case. I have no control over what he does! He's the one who posted it here under my name, and he posted it at AR15.com. We use each others accounts all the time since I have one here and he has one there. I usually use this one, and he usually uses that one though. When we put in the address our accounts already come up. No real sense in logging off then back on again, especially for me because he usually lurks. I'm the poster on both sides generally, although he does chime in from time to time on arfcom, and every once in a blue moon here. If it ever comes to a civil suit, I guess our lawyers will go toe to toe, and I got a really, really good one. The counter suit will be amazing, I'll even ask for my ****ing bullets back, with interest. SUE, make my ****ing day! I don't even feel comfortable leaving the house now with just one gun, I carry two now, a G23 an extra mag and a G27 on my ankle just in case, I'm sure I can sue for paranoia now or something. I have family in almost every aspect of the legal system, I can tye this up in court for the next 25 years. I'm sure he won't have the money to pay a lawyer, and none of those "only get paid if you win" lawyers are gonna want to wait as long as it's gonna take to get paid. Plus, it's not like I'm some kind of rich *******, or big buisness owner, I'm a 22 year old salesman who makes penuts for a liveing. I'm not sure what overzelous lawyer is gonna wanna take this one. The only thing that he may be able to do is Sue the hotels insurance, which I say ****'em, should have had better security, or at least let us lock the doors earilier. I'm done ranting.

[PARAGON]

Things are already unraveling for this guy.

[ShaggyX]

Originally posted by GeorgeSSSS:
Paragon, old buddy, I don't think you are qualified to tell others not to protect their lives when confronted with lethal force. Results count, and the night clerk got the right result.

George SSSS

I dont care who you are...thats funny right there.

I will deny it later, but I am going to have to side with Paragon on this one. The cleark was a jackass that made a bad situation worse.

[GeorgeSSSS]

That guy can watch my back anytime. Paragon & Shaggy, we can agree to disagree.

George SSSS

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by GeorgeSSSS:
That guy can watch my back anytime. Paragon & Shaggy, we can agree to disagree.

George SSSS

Yeah but can we disagree to agree? That's the question.

And if you ever put my name in the same sentence with Shaggy's again, I'll come to California and go Motel Clerk on yer ass.

[ShaggyX]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
And if you ever put my name in the same sentence with Shaggy's again, I'll come to California and go Motel Clerk on yer ass.

LMFAO...nice.