Increased MPG

[phantom2]

I know a lot of you guys are gadget freaks like me.I found this post in another forum and I thought you guys might find it interesting.http://www.sun-sentinel.com/video/?clipId=2466159&topVideoCatNo=null&c=&autoStart=tr ue&activePane=info&LaunchPageAdTag=homepage&clipFo rmat=

[wpage]

Very Impressive MPG results!

[Mu-taint]

Just did a little math in my head. I may be wrong here but....

9.4 mpg to start
23.2 mpg after the test period
they said that was a 61% increase????

If it's all true wouldn't that be almost a 150% increase over 9.4mpg????
9.4mpg + 9.4mpg (100%) + 4.7mpg (50%) = 23.5mpg (150%)

Nice math Florida News Guy!

[6pack]

Pretty interesting. Anyone have any hands-on expereince with this thing?

[mln2963]

61% of 23.2 mpg = 14.152 mpg
14.152 mpg + 9.4 mpg = 23.552 mpg

Does that make sense?

[mln2963]

Here's another hydrogen system- http://www.thermo1.com/index.htm

[Mu-taint]

Originally Posted by mln2963

61% of 23.2 mpg = 14.152 mpg
14.152 mpg + 9.4 mpg = 23.552 mpg

Does that make sense?

Not really, by the Florida News Guy math above a 61% increase on 9.4 mpg would be:

9.4mpg x .61 = 5.734 + 9.4 = 15.13 mpg

[6pack]

I've read thru both websites. The hydro-4000 sounds like the better option, although more expensive. I don't see why you can't have a larger reservoir somewhere so you're not refilling the small container so much. There's no mention anywhere about durablility or maintenance. I'd like to see some long term testimonies. I've sent both companies an email requesting more info but I think I'm going to give this a shot.

My brother is a green freak and I talked with him about this. He's checked into it before but hasn't done it yet. He's excited to try though. He mentioned that the only issues he came across was a problem with the O2 sensors reading to much oxygen in the mix and the computer increasing the fuel.

Is there anyone else here that has any knowledge of the pros/cons of this?

[06-H3]

Must be popular, the website www.hydro4000.com is getting hammered right now. Gotta admit that watching that news story has me more than a little curious about it.

[moorec614]

It would have been incredibly easy for the dyno operator to run the system with a very heavy load the first time, resulting in a below average MPG, and then with a super light load (lower than would be experienced on the road) the second time, resulting in an above average MPG rating.

The news reporters would have been clueless, as could be the general public.

[PA-H3]

If you are going to do this. You have to disable the sensors in your CAT. Which is illegal. I talked to a guy who was installing them in vehicles and the computer dumps more fuel in when the sensors say that the engine is running so clean. Put a loop signal on your sensors hooked up to a toggle switch so that when you go into a shop for inspection you won't get fined. I don't know how or if you would get fined but when I told the shop owner this he scolded me and said that "that is illegal". I am trying to see if you can get an exempt sticker if you prove that your vehicle is running cleaner then stock. But I doubt that it will go anywhere. And for anyone really looking into this technology research Stanley Meyer and see what happened to him (Poisoned). His ideas can be found online and there is a shop online selling kits to make the "H" "H" "O" generators. if anybody figures out how to trick your computer into not dumpiing more fuel into the engine after hooking the device up. Post it!

[6pack]

What about having the pcm reprogrammed to account for it?

I'll read into the guy you mentioned.

In the conversation I had with my brother, he had mentioned that one of the 'tricks' was to wrap tin foil around the O2 sensors which helped increase their temperature, this in turn helped it read a lower oxygen content? He could not confirm this and said it was just what he heard.

I did not hear back from either company today...

[moorec614]

Originally Posted by 6pack

He mentioned that the only issues he came across was a problem with the O2 sensors reading to much oxygen in the mix and the computer increasing the fuel.

One of the simplest and cheapest solutions to the Check Engine Light's generated after removing a catalytic converter is to install to o2 sensor spacers, available from any auto parts store, before the o2 sensor itself, effectively pulling the sensor out of the stream. I wouldn't be surprised if this trick would work for this problem as well.

If you go through with this, please let us know how it works out.

[6pack]

Hey Moore, if you do the spacers that you suggest, does that fix the issue of the O2 sensors reading lots of oxygen and trying to increase the fuel?

I've spent the last 20 minutes or so searching for Stanley Meyer info. After sifting thru the government conspiracy crap, it seems he was more of a scam artist than inventor. He also was trying to run his vehicles purely on hydrogen (if I find more info later I'll post it, but that's all I have time for now). These systems talked about above are just adding hydrogen to the standard gas mix.

[wpage]

The spacer backs the sensor off and does weaken its reading of o2 which could reduce the demand for richer fuel. Which would negate any fuel savings.
The chevy colorado gmc canyon site has a picture on one of the home made header posts where he used a bored out part from advance auto to solve his check engine alarm...

There is another device that can be built to solve the sensor issue which involves wiring resistors and potentiometers (variable resistors) These parts can be sourced at any electronics parts store like radio shack. You wire it in line and can "dial in" your sensor results to the vehicle cpu.
This "black box" is on one of the hydrogen boost sites...

[4.8t]

why not just get hptuners and tune for it? you could turn off the bank 2 o2's for the cats and tune the fueling o2's for the afr you need. problem solved. when you go in for inspection you just load the stock tune, turn off the kit and your good to go.

[6pack]

That's what I was asking a few posts up. I take it you can adjust the tune for it then.

wpage, you lost me with the first part of your post. If the input of hydrogen/oxygen causes the O2 sensors to read lean, which in turn casues the pcm to increase fuel, wouldn't causing the sensor to read less oxygen make it not ask for more fuel? Which puts us back to the original situation of using less gas. I also don't like this type of bandaid fix. I would prefer to be able to tune for the increase. But if it works it works.

I heard back from the one company today, thermo1. They said they have no problem with the O2 sensors.

[4.8t]

i'm still trying to see how it works. it seems to me that it would be rasing the air fuel ratio. so basically leaning it out. which is bad for heavy loads. why not just tune it to a higher afr to start with if that the case. in hpt there is a tab called "lean cruise" it leans out the afr when at a steady cruise with a light load on the engine. but in america its illegal do to it raising the afr which raises emmissions. so if this is doing the same thing wouldn't it be illegal as far as emmisions is concerned? anyway in alstralia they use the lean cruise thats why we have it in our hptuners program. susposely it doesn't work in american cars even if you set all the setting for a stock holden car.

[4.8t]

ok figured it out. it doesn't raise the afr it would actually lower it. the hydrogen acts as a fuel and there for burns more of the oxygen so it will show rich on the o2's. due to the lack of oxygen. so it will actually pull fuel to raise the afr back up to 14.7:1.

[6pack]

Do you have a hydrogen setup?