winch question...

[evomind2]

another question guys....
the factory winch set up takes away from the approach angle, as we all know.
ive looked at pics of the aftermarket setups and it seems they tuck the winch a little further back....
is this true?
if so, if the truck has the factory winch, can u buy the setup that tucks the factory winch further back using the existing winch?
thanks for the help so far....

[ssgharkness020147]

The aftermarket winches (MileMarker) do not affect the approach/departure angles at all. The Warn significantly affects these angles. To date there is no way to correct this on the Warn. The Warn winch is HUGE. I have no idea how one could stuff it in to the space that a MileMarker fits in to. Either way, get a MileMarker. They are smaller, cost less money, they weigh a ton less, and overall work better. I've got a hydro (that does not work right now ) and it kicks ass. Its slower then the electrics, but it will do a continous pull all day long, say goodbye to hot and cold cycles. And it does not drain your batteries at all.

[evomind2]

Originally Posted by ssgharkness020147

The aftermarket winches (MileMarker) do not affect the approach/departure angles at all. The Warn significantly affects these angles. To date there is no way to correct this on the Warn. The Warn winch is HUGE. I have no idea how one could stuff it in to the space that a MileMarker fits in to. Either way, get a MileMarker. They are smaller, cost less money, they weigh a ton less, and overall work better. I've got a hydro (that does not work right now ) and it kicks ass. Its slower then the electrics, but it will do a continous pull all day long, say goodbye to hot and cold cycles. And it does not drain your batteries at all.

i would just go aftermarket, but the truck im looking at already has the winch, hence the question.
thanks again, ssg

[lvs]

I don't know how the Mile Marker Winch weight compares, but if the truck you are looking at added the winch after the factory, make sure they springs were upgraded to the heavy duty ones that will accomodate the added weight of the winch.

I have the factory winch and have not had any problems with approach angles. Haven't had any problems with performance either. I don't think it would be worth the money to swap it out if you are buying an existing H1 with a working factory winch. IMO - there are a lot of other accessories I would add/upgrade first.

[ssgharkness020147]

If the truck already has a Warn then I would bother swaping it out unless you get in to extreme off roading, in which case the Warns affect on approach angles will become a problem. FWIW you could probably sell the Warn for a price that would off set the cost of an electric MileMarker and mounting plate.

[ree]

Originally Posted by lvs

make sure they springs were upgraded to the heavy duty ones that will accomodate the added weight of the winch.

Am I naive in thinking that everytime someone says this it's a stupid concern? You are adding 90-150 pounds to the front of a 7500+ pound vehicle with a front axle GVWR rating of over 4000 pounds and you think that the springs need to be upgraded? I add 200 pound to my truck everytime I get in. I add 200-250 pounds to my truck whenever I fill the gas tank. Do I need upgraded springs? What if I have someone riding with me?

[lvs]

Take it up with the AMG tech's. They are they one's who said that is why the front springs were sagging on a friends H1. He swapped them out for the upgraded springs and now it's fine. Don't you think over time the added weight hanging off the front end, not riding in the passenger seat, will have an effect? Maybe, maybe not, but the dealer paid to to swape the springs because they neglected todo it when they added the winch.

I have been all over Moab and have never had an issue with the approach angle--that includes nose dive and white knuckle obstacles. I have stock tires/wheels too. I suppose if you run in the mud a lot it might be an issue.

[evomind2]

Originally Posted by lvs

Take it up with the AMG tech's. They are they one's who said that is why the front springs were sagging on a friends H1. He swapped them out for the upgraded springs and now it's fine. Don't you think over time the added weight hanging off the front end, not riding in the passenger seat, will have an effect? Maybe, maybe not, but the dealer paid to to swape the springs because they neglected todo it when they added the winch.

I have been all over Moab and have never had an issue with the approach angle--that includes nose dive and white knuckle obstacles. I have stock tires/wheels too. I suppose if you run in the mud a lot it might be an issue.

if you are looking at a used truck, how can u tell what springs are in it?
also, if u upgrade the front springs, wouldnt u wanna upgrade the back ones so the suspension is balanced?

[lvs]

http://www.flashoffroad.com/Maintena.../springs_1.htm

[evomind2]

Originally Posted by lvs

http://www.flashoffroad.com/Maintena.../springs_1.htm

great site...thanks

[hmcoleap]

Someone riding with you is not sitting a few feet in front of the front wheels; that is significantly different than sitting just behind the front wheels. The truck is designed to carry lots of extra weight in the passenger compartments, and over the rear wheels - not on the front end.

As others have mentioned, the extra weight of a WARN with the bumper, etc is a significant amount of extra weight, especially since the stock (non winch rated) springs tend to settle and collapse after years of use under the weight of the truck alone when used for offroad driving -- without any additional weight on the front end.

Winch springs are a good idea on any H1 that goes wheeling, even if you DON'T mount a winch.

The weight of the milemarker is significantly less than the OEM WARN setup, but I would still recommend stiffer front springs for it.

Originally Posted by ree

Am I naive in thinking that everytime someone says this it's a stupid concern? You are adding 90-150 pounds to the front of a 7500+ pound vehicle with a front axle GVWR rating of over 4000 pounds and you think that the springs need to be upgraded? I add 200 pound to my truck everytime I get in. I add 200-250 pounds to my truck whenever I fill the gas tank. Do I need upgraded springs? What if I have someone riding with me?

[hmcoleap]

I would definitely remove the OEM Warn winch setup and install a milemarker instead if you plan to wheel that truck - the loss to approach angle is a big one.

You can probably get enough on the used market for an OEM Warn winch and front bumper to replace it with a milemarker electric and the full mounting bumper, etc for about even money.

[ree]

Manny. Thanks. LVS thanks for the references. I'm now educated on the topic.

[hmcoleap]

You are right - a WARN won't fit between the front frame rails - if you want to save your approach angle you need to go Milemarker.

I hate to fire up a classic hydraulic vs. electric winch thread (third only to religion and politics for generating arguments until the end of time), but...

I had a hydro milemarker for years... it rarely worked when I needed it most, and I found that the already overtaxed hydroboost and power steering system did not take kindly to the extra load -- not to mention you can't BTM and winch at the same time, which is absolutely necessary for real bad stuck situations!

I also ran into a problem one day where a fuel delivery problem kept making my truck stop running. I also blew up my transfer case that day on a very technical trail, so I had to winch my way out. Without the electric, I would have been stranded, since I often had to winch my truck to a new position to get it restarted (return fuel line was getting pinched, as I later learned: http://hummer.off-road.com/hummer/ar....jsp?id=328877 )

Bottom line is, the hydraulic wouldn't have worked if the engine wasn't running, so the electric saved my butt.

I switched it out for a milemarker electric, and have never had a problem since.

Originally Posted by ssgharkness020147

The aftermarket winches (MileMarker) do not affect the approach/departure angles at all. The Warn significantly affects these angles. To date there is no way to correct this on the Warn. The Warn winch is HUGE. I have no idea how one could stuff it in to the space that a MileMarker fits in to. Either way, get a MileMarker. They are smaller, cost less money, they weigh a ton less, and overall work better. I've got a hydro (that does not work right now ) and it kicks ass. Its slower then the electrics, but it will do a continous pull all day long, say goodbye to hot and cold cycles. And it does not drain your batteries at all.

[HUMMERDOGG.]

I'm going to have to look into this but I'll go ahead and see if anyone has any experience with relocating the warn winch to the rear between the frame rails once I've removed my aux fuel tank. I'm looking to get a wheel well mounted fuel tank so I can get a rear winch and integrate it into the new rear bumper I'm going to have built...

[ssgharkness020147]

That could be possible, but due to the size of the Warn I would get a MM. With an MM the bumper would not have to hang down as much and the approach/departure would still be better. But, a could be made to fit I'm sure.

Originally Posted by HUMMERDOGG.

I'm going to have to look into this but I'll go ahead and see if anyone has any experience with relocating the warn winch to the rear between the frame rails once I've removed my aux fuel tank. I'm looking to get a wheel well mounted fuel tank so I can get a rear winch and integrate it into the new rear bumper I'm going to have built...

[hmcoleap]

I mounted a rear milemarker in that spot, it fits great. I think the WARN would be a tight fit, if it fits at all...

If you scroll to the bottom of this page you can see the rear winch install:
http://www.serious4x4.com/winch.html

Originally Posted by HUMMERDOGG.

I'm going to have to look into this but I'll go ahead and see if anyone has any experience with relocating the warn winch to the rear between the frame rails once I've removed my aux fuel tank. I'm looking to get a wheel well mounted fuel tank so I can get a rear winch and integrate it into the new rear bumper I'm going to have built...