Supercharger vs. Headers and all the upgrades...

[Spenser]

I received a response from Klaus this morning (many thanks) that has me thinking. While at the dealer for service, I made reference to wishing that my H2 had a little more "pep". The rep responds with options that included, Headers, catback exhaust, computer reprograming, and cool Air intake. These were the options unless I wanted to go with the Supercharger. The Supercharger was priced to me at $11,000.00 which seemed a bit much after reading responses here. Well, I opted for the reprogramed computer, catback exhaust, and the cool air intake, and while stressing the importance of wanting to keep the "quiet cabin" ride as in my business I didn't want to have to talk over a loud exhaust, nor be on trips and get a headache from the harmonics. Dealer say's the catback exhaust (volant) would be almost factory quiet, and I'd see a major difference. Then I mentioned the more "pep" in town, and the dealer says the best bet there would be to add the Headers, as with the exhaust it would remain quiet, so therefore I reluctantly had them add those as well. They had her 4 days, got her back, drove like ****, saw little to no difference for the money and was VERY loud throughout acceleration and highway speeds. Took it back, they changed the exhaust to a B&B and recalibrated the computer, picked it up lastnight under the understanding that I'd drive it over the holiday weekend and decide what I wanted to do. I can remove the headers to quiet it down even more (per them) or change whatever I want, even remove most of the upgrades and move upto the Supercharger. Well, she runs much better now, is a little quieter, however still pretty aggressive sounding. I really don't see the $5,000.00 difference I paid and I'm about to have them put her back to full blown stock, keep the cool air intake, and the computer program, and find someone who is reliable to add the Suppercharger for half of what they want, although if they don't do it there's the warranty issue. (They claim that the reason I pay so much is that they warrant all add ons to match the factory warranty. I love my H2, I really do, I was just wanting a little more response from her, here in town, and hope I could gain a bit more power on the open road when heading uphill. I really appreciate the responses here, The dealer now wants to have me change the gears and add a double core radiator for cooling, I feel I'm spending money, and a lot of it, but I'm heading in the wrong direction, and not getting the real "bang" for my buck. I've got three days to decide, and I'm a bit lost here. I'm not a race around town, loud exhaust, mean sounding ride, kind of guy. I think the dealer is thinking only about the $$ factor and isn't listening to what I'm wanting here. To me, you guys are the experts as you've "been there, done that" and I need some help here which will be greatly appreciated. Have a great weekend and as always, thanks.

Kevin (casey2)
2005 Stealth Grey SUV
Just a little mixed up presently.

[W1N]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When I first had mine done it was sluggish above 80mph. We fixed that problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How did you fix it and what was the problem?

Thanks

[Fubar]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ:
Denny Ken is correct about the switch for offroaders. i think the GM fan would hold up but, better safe than sorry and only thing You have to do is remember to turn it off into water and back on. Very cheap insurance for sure.
Go to eadperformance.com and look up
OEM Electric GM Truck Fan.
then go to Nelson Performance and buy the wiring harness He has already built for this purpose. Has relays etc. and can be programmed to turn off and on if You have tuning software or know someone who does. Not handheld programers but, software like HP Tuning.
You will have to cut tranny cooling lines so fan will fit. Cut lines for the room needed and then splice rubber hose between the cut out sections that will be removed to fit fan in. You will have to do this for both lines.
Wiring harness comes with insrtuctions on how to hook it up and the electric fan will not bolt into H2 holes. Line up dual fans and mark where You will need to drill fan shroud. The holes that old fan used will work to bolt on.
Use a rubber washer between shroud and frame and shroud and bolt head. gives some cushion against vibration. Do not over tighten or You bust shroud. I did not take the time but if You can find a metal insert to go in shroud hole so that bolt will pull up snug on spacer it would prevent over tightening and cracking shroud.
TAZ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taz,
I need help.
I need to know who you spoke with at Nelson Performance about this wiring harness and more important I need a part number.

The service manager at my dealership has his parts people trying to track down this info and they are coming up empty.

As a GM/Hummer Dealer they can get the fans for the HD 2500 but they have no idea what your talking about with regards to this harness from Nelson Performance. I've even called Nelson and spoke someone, and sorry I didn't get his name but he and he had no idea what I was talking about.

I'd like to get positive info about this asap so that I can make the Oct Moab run that some of the folks here on the board are going to.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[lexpro]

I was thinking of getting a S/C and change it from 05 to 06 when i get a new one but with all the speculation of a different engine option becoming available i cant do the 5k$,,,,,

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Denny Ken is correct about the switch for offroaders. i think the GM fan would hold up but, better safe than sorry and only thing You have to do is remember to turn it off into water and back on. Very cheap insurance for sure.
Go to eadperformance.com and look up
OEM Electric GM Truck Fan.
then go to Nelson Performance and buy the wiring harness He has already built for this purpose. Has relays etc. and can be programmed to turn off and on if You have tuning software or know someone who does. Not handheld programers but, software like HP Tuning.
You will have to cut tranny cooling lines so fan will fit. Cut lines for the room needed and then splice rubber hose between the cut out sections that will be removed to fit fan in. You will have to do this for both lines.
Wiring harness comes with insrtuctions on how to hook it up and the electric fan will not bolt into H2 holes. Line up dual fans and mark where You will need to drill fan shroud. The holes that old fan used will work to bolt on.
Use a rubber washer between shroud and frame and shroud and bolt head. gives some cushion against vibration. Do not over tighten or You bust shroud. I did not take the time but if You can find a metal insert to go in shroud hole so that bolt will pull up snug on spacer it would prevent over tightening and cracking shroud.
TAZ

[Spenser]

Ken, I really can't go to another H2 dealer as you've suggested as all 3 dealerships here are owned by the same family! So far they have been very accomadating over the whole issue, hey, I'm not saying it doesn't drive better now, just not $5400.00 worth as was promised. And as far as Supercharger noise under a load? Well, that would be music to my ears I'm certain. Thanks again.

Kevin (casey2)
2005 Stealth Grey H2 SUV

[Spenser]

Thanks Ken, I advised the rep of the TSB addressing the "frame pop" issue and the remedy, which was replacement of the stock exhaust. Since this is a unresolved issue with my H2 currently, should I decide to go back to all stock, this shouldn't be an issue. It would appear to be a better idea to go back to full blown stock, and learn of a reputable shop of established reliability here in Phoenix to do the work, including the Supercharger, for a lot less money. I wanted to spend the weekend deciding, and reading the responses here to assist me with my decision. I had checked on an extended warranty as well and after quotes they tell me that I need to decide prior to hitting 12,000 miles or the prices will increase, (I'm at 11,100 currently). Thanks for the help, it's greatly appreciated.

Kevin (casey2)
2005 Stealth Grey H2 SUV

[H2 Bill]

You were overcharged for everything that they did!! Have them take it all off and start over again like Ken has said. Get the supercharger, headers and exhaust from someone that is honest and knows what they are doing. You won't be disappointed.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Hi Gang back from New York. Everything went well. Quite an interesting place to say the least. Daughter and Her choral group did great. Many college groups from around country and they brought in a super conductor and award winning to boot. He just came back from a tour of Italy and Austria with a try out only chamber choir and just blew people away there. Hate to sound like such a proud Dad but, the conductor just continueously raved about My daughters college. This group is very dedicated to performance and not just going through the motions. We got there first even days ahead of others and left last. He consistantly sent them out early from practice raveing about how well prepared they were. There college director had drilled them for months as in reality they were the smallest school their and by far the less prestigous choir. Anyway they went last and all the others were good and the conductors chamber group performed was head and shoulders above everyone else. But, and again I hate to sound like a homer but, the daughter of the Texas Women's Choir, that was the first to perform, said when Our kids started, being the last of the night, that on the first line She immediately saw and heard the commitment to this opportunity Our director and kids took. Everyone there knew immediately they sounded better instantly than all but, the conductors chamber group. They received a standing ovation and allot I guess due to the fact they were such a small group yet performed so powerfully. This is a little girl from a abandoned spot in the road and She was scared to death. She was the only one of Her group who had completely memorized all of her material which the conductor noticed She was not brinig Her music book to practice.

Well thanks for Your patience on letting me brag but, now I have actually some advice on the tuning issue.

I'm buying HP Tuning software with 2 bar density (now getting ready to offer 3 bar) so I will go with 3 bar and some additional features that allow You to really fine tune safely with the specs it provides from PCM. It is a wideband tune so You have to add one wideband oxygen sensor in front of cat of course. My plan is to run tuning software off the small PC I will have to operate the touchscreen, video, audio, Nav, etc. It will be there to bring up on the screen anytime i want if nothing else just to check and make sure nothing is changing. Nelson Performnance highly recomends it and You can have someone with you in the rig running down the road on the freeway or city street and tune it in real time and more precise with laptop than on a dyno. Real world, should produce better out come. The 2 bar density is for if You decide to run more than 5 or 6 pounds of boost which I will most likely do on occasion. The investment is steep but, I think in the long run like HpTuning told Me will prevent You from toasting and engine along with the gauge center I installed that Jonahs designed, I will be prepared always and can tune on the go anytime. If I understand correctly from My talks with Hp is that they will have a 3 bar which will allow You to take MAF and physically remove it from intake system.
It appears there is no real inexpensive option to do it right. I'm going to learn the tuning Myself. Hp said it will be easy but, still a learning curve to perfect it.
You also get 2 vehicles with the kit with 2 seperate cables that will match the rig You buy it for. But, the nice thing is it is not vin specific and if You get 1 car it will work for all cars like it.
Hope some of this is helfull but, it just is going to cost to tune it the way it should be.
TAZ

[DRTYF? (the imposter)]

Who is Klaus's Supercharger guy and how can they be reached!? Thanks in advance!

[KenP]

Tim:
You better not send those pics!

I have no sluggishness at all. I've heard that once before and it must be a programming issue. When I first had mine done it was sluggish above 80mph. We fixed that problem. Of course you just have to mash the gas to eliminate the sluggishness.

I think Klaus got the SC for under 5k. Are you talking installed price? If not, they're charging you 2k for the exhaust and intake. That's alot. Better check with Klaus.

[W1N]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by W1N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When I first had mine done it was sluggish above 80mph. We fixed that problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How did you fix it and what was the problem?

Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Timing, just reprogrammed it. Of course that was after sending the SC to have the bearings replaced. They needed it, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this the episode you told me about a while back, that the SC didn't perform as it should have at first?

Thanks!

[Klaus]

Also, I might suggest that you avoid the "shotgun approach" to adding performance parts to your truck. Add only one thing at a time. Have the supercharger installed first and see how it runs. Then add the headers/exhaust, and see how it runs. That way you will know how each mod changed how the truck runs, and what worked and what didn't.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Tim everybody has diferent experiences but, I put on dual GM electric fans and is one of the best things i did. I chose them over other brand because they have a ring around the tips of blades that add to strength. many others just have blade out there on it's own. I have flex-a-lite on My truck and like them. I can hear and tell that they are not as smooth and quiet as GM duals with the support ring around blade tips connecting them together.

Plus I figure I regained the HP lost by the parasitic loss of HP by supercharger with electric fans.
Oh and the A/C works so much better now. I had complained many times about A/C not being cold enough. I was considering a rear A/C unit but that idea is solved now. Well the fan solved it all. Then the Hummer dealer told me that this has actually been a fix used on Escalade owners who complained about poor A/C performance and it solved it for them. More and consitent air flow over condenser coils means better A/C cooling.
TAZ

[Spenser]

Klaus,

Thanks I appreciate it, I've spent $5475.00 including tax for, headers, computer reprogram (they claim they have written their own program) cool air box (volant without the tube, they changed the box only, everything else is stock) and a B&B stainless steel exhaust system. Now since I've mentioned that it still seems "sluggish" at "in town" driving around speeds, (transmission shift points contribute highly to this I think) they say I need to change the gears to the 4.56, and then, of course, I'll need the oversized radiator as with the gears, and headers, the engine will run hotter and the increased cooling capacity will add life/years to the engine. As I've said, I have till Tuesday, then it goes back in (new compressor pump for the air ride)and They say that they'll do whatever I want. The reps that pushed the parts, and made the claims, were there when this all came about, but have since(2 weeks ago) have left. So my position is that the claims were those of someone that just wanted to make commission, the rep I have now seems sincere, and and hase been there for a few years, and he tells me the headers were a bad idea for the money ($1795.00 installed) in his opinion as he's only seen them installed on 2 other H2's and claims that if I have them taken off, the exhaust will be quieter with the B&B currently installed. Question is this, they sell the magana Supercharger, or Magnason, whichever applies, so why then would my warranty be void if I had a shop install it instead of the dealer, (at half the cost) if the dealer installs the very same bolt on? They charge me $795.00 for the Volant coor air intake, and $1295.00 for the computer reprogram, $1495 for the exhaust, and $1795 for the headers. I'm wondering if I should keep the intake and the computer program, get rid of the exhaust and headers, and have someone here on the site recommend a realiable shop here in Phoenix to install a Supercharger and be done with it. Opinions? Again, I appreciate the responses and concerns.


Best,


Kevin (casey2)
2005 Stealth Gray H2 SUV

[KenP]

BS on the gears, the prices and everything they've told you. Have them take just about everything back that they will! Order the SC from Klaus's guy and get it installed locally. Since your HUMMER dealer is full of crap, check other GM dealers or speed shops in the area.

You don't need the $1300 program because the SC comes with a programmer. Keep in mind, the truck will be louder with the SC under load.

Just keep the exhaust, unless they have your original and can put it back on also. Once you find a reputable installer, you can alway order those parts and have them installed by the new guys.

Sorry, but what that dealership is doing really pisses me off. Again, BS on the gears.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Fubar the GM fan IS NOT FLEX-A-LITE. Do not even look alike. The GM is a much snugger fit against radiator and fits the factory H2 slots but, bolt patern is a little different as I mentioned before. Do not worry 2 different animals. I went to Allen's website and the harness He had at the time I bought it had it's own picture and said it worked with the 2500 HD electric fans. He made them by hand.

I do know of another company near Me that I found out about after I got Allen's which has been a great harness. They specialize in GM wiring harness's for almost any purpose.
I will be able to get with them Monday and see if they have it or can build it. I will check cost and get with You ASAP. I will give You a call as soon as I talk with them.

Fubar Allen knows without a doubt what You are asking if You had Him on the phone that is. The harness He lists now is not the same description I remember but very close. The one there now mentions about having the manual switch and led. The one before did not have that option but, that is a good thing to have in case of water. It says it will work with LS1 engine so I'm thinking it is the one. The 2500 I would think is a more heavy duty setup and would have the same hook up as the camaro mentioned in the website. Harness had 2 leads to plug directly into the fans themselves with the tab locks and had 3 relays to mount to help control off and on as well as wiring needed to tie in to AC and computer to make fans turn off and on at different temps as well as cut off AC when passing. It lists the features needed to operate the 2500 HD fan if wire gauge is heavy enough. It should have leads to connect to the RED box down below the battery where the instructions Had Me hook to.

We'll get it worked out. I'm confident that this other company can build it as they have been after Me to let them do some work at the custom shop for Dragon and I, as well as help promote them. I just have not needed a harness yet but, do have a need coming soon and they have asked Me to help promote them which I will be happy to, so I hope they will let people I want to help deal direct with them. I will try to arrange to get them to let You order it Yourself unless they insist on going through Me and it should not be that way I do not think.

TAZ

[Fubar]

Taz,
Thank you for the quick response. I'll get ahold of Allen Monday morning.

The harness isn't for the Flex-a-lite fans. Is it? Tell me the fans in GM's HD 2500 series p/u aren't Flex-a-lite.

That would make this entire ordeal a huge waste of time.

If they are Flex-a-lite I'll go back to the stock clutch fan, which I still have in a box in the garage.

I called Magna-Charger and they tell they've never heard of an H2 over heating as a result of a super charger and that if it is it can't be a result of theres. They asked why I went with electric fans in the first place? They went on to say they have heavily stressed motors with SC's by pulling boats up mountains and never have seen an over heating issue. Personally it sounds like some trying to cover there ass. I've never blamed Magna Charger and didn't do so when I called to inquire about my over heating issue I simply asked for there suggestions on what I should do or proceed.

I've venting sorry.

Taz thanks again for the info.

[KenP]

http://nelsonperformance.com/gmparts.htm

[Fubar]

Taz thanks for all the info and the help. Check your PM.

I don't know what Towbin Hummer's service manager and parts people are looking at or doing. Besides stalling for cooler weather so no matter what they do to my truck they can say look we fixed your problem...
From what you've just posted it sounds pretty clear that this will work. All I can think of is they are continuing to lie to me in an attempt to cover there asses. Because the contact info for Nelson Performance is on the site and apparently there is a product description for the wiring harness. I have to say that last week when I looked at the link provided by Ken the product discription for the wiring harness was not there on the site or in my anger I missed it somehow.

Thanks again for all your help.