Whats the deal with speed?

[juice57]

First off, this site is great, and as of today I am the proud new owner of an H3. The following is something I felt needed to be addressed. This is just my opinion but I feel most of you share it.

Why are so many people and car critics (the one's who are actually supposed to be knowledgealbe in this area) concerned with the speed of the H3. If they forgot, this is a TRUCK WITH OFF-ROAD capabilities. Nobody does 90 mph through trails (unless your in the BAJA). If I wanted something that could go 0-60 in less than 6 seconds I would get a sports car. But I wanted something that I could use everday and have fun on the weekends with it at some trails. Everyone should be happy that there is actually some good off-road trucks available. People are talking about the truck like it should be Ford Lighting fast. It's a off-road truck, I can't stress this enough. What is the deal with people.

If you guy's share my view point please let me know, because I feel like I am going Nuts!

[Buddy in Az]

my 2 cents I got 19 mpg in lux model 34" tires, Airraid and SMA exhaust on a long trip. Not great but better than i expected. Oh yeah 75 MPH most of the time.

[PARAGON]

Clyde, I'll have to disagree with you on a couple of points.

The engine's "power" and the truck's fuel economy do not go hand in hand as you suggest it should. Considering it is a truck designed for off-road use, with no priority given to aero for a reason and it's higher weight in it's class, it get's pretty damn good gas mileage.

Secondly, GM is a car business. Residual value is not high on their business plan for vehicles. The idea is to indroduce a vehicle and sell the crap out of it and then keep improving that vehicle and turn over new vehicle sales as much as possible. If the buyer would do it and the market was capable the process would be set up to make buyers want to buy a new version every year with revisions or improvements to create that desire.

As far as your ideas about the mileage, mileage estimates are not based on speeds of the speed limits on the interstate or higher.

It sounds more like YOU were trying to force a square peg in a round hole. The H3 obviously is not for you if your major concern is it's MPG estimates. That's fine, but you signed your post with "H2 wannabe" and you can expect to average around 12mpg with it and even though it has a 6.0L V-8, it still weighs 7K lbs and has the aero of a barn.

So, I guess I take some exception to your post because it's not making a whole lot of sense to me.

[juice57]

First off, this site is great, and as of today I am the proud new owner of an H3. The following is something I felt needed to be addressed. This is just my opinion but I feel most of you share it.

Why are so many people and car critics (the one's who are actually supposed to be knowledgealbe in this area) concerned with the speed of the H3. If they forgot, this is a TRUCK WITH OFF-ROAD capabilities. Nobody does 90 mph through trails (unless your in the BAJA). If I wanted something that could go 0-60 in less than 6 seconds I would get a sports car. But I wanted something that I could use everday and have fun on the weekends with it at some trails. Everyone should be happy that there is actually some good off-road trucks available. People are talking about the truck like it should be Ford Lighting fast. It's a off-road truck, I can't stress this enough. What is the deal with people.

If you guy's share my view point please let me know, because I feel like I am going Nuts!

[HummBebe]

QUOTE]
I'm with you...it's "Like Nothing Else"...so I don't care about comparisons.[/quote]


Ditto


It's time to buck up little soldier

[DWPC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Surferjo:

On a side note I have an 04 6cyl. Wrangler with a AEM intake kit and I don’t believe for one second this thing can do 0-60 in 9 seconds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think your statement about the Jeep answers the question. 0-60 times by pro drivers on a track in optimum conditions just aren't a valid means of comparison. The larger engines "options" you mention are technically options, but their very high added cost throws the vehicles into a completely different range. You'll be hard pressed to find a V8 Touareg for much under $50K MSRP; almost 30% over the price of a base V6 Touareg. Some "option"!

I also think that with the way gas prices are heading, GM would be giving the H3; designed around the I5; the kiss of death to make the basic platform design compromises necessary to accomodate a big 8. We're going to see BIG changes in buying habits by the 07 MY.

Maybe next year they'l add a turbo option, but I doubt it because GM has never been very turbo-oriented and making a dependable turbo engine from one not designed as a turbo engine is difficult.

I don't think the H3's power is nearly as much of a problem for Hummer/GM as keeping the H2 viable as we careen toward $4/gallon and higher.

[KenP]

Originally Posted by DWPC

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Surferjo:

On a side note I have an 04 6cyl. Wrangler with a AEM intake kit and I don’t believe for one second this thing can do 0-60 in 9 seconds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think your statement about the Jeep answers the question. 0-60 times by pro drivers on a track in optimum conditions just aren't a valid means of comparison. The larger engines "options" you mention are technically options, but their very high added cost throws the vehicles into a completely different range. You'll be hard pressed to find a V8 Touareg for much under $50K MSRP; almost 30% over the price of a base V6 Touareg. Some "option"!

I also think that with the way gas prices are heading, GM would be giving the H3; designed around the I5; the kiss of death to make the basic platform design compromises necessary to accomodate a big 8. We're going to see BIG changes in buying habits by the 07 MY.

Maybe next year they'l add a turbo option, but I doubt it because GM has never been very turbo-oriented and making a dependable turbo engine from one not designed as a turbo engine is difficult.

I don't think the H3's power is nearly as much of a problem for Hummer/GM as keeping the H2 viable as we careen toward $4/gallon and higher.

Yep, it looks like $4/gallon will be here soon.

Hey, I like this sandbox.

Yep, fun, turds and all.

S.

[BEST 4x4xFAR]

I?m holding out hope that around this time next year we will start to see turbo diesel H3?s hitting the lots as ?08s. I know it?s a bit of wishful thinking, but GM has got to be stupid to not even be considering the option. It seems similar or better performance could be had, with greatly improved fuel efficiency and even better low down torque for off-road use, from a 2.8-3.5 liter turbo diesel engine (International currently has a Brazilian built 2.8 liter Powerstroke that puts out 277 lbs-ft at 1400 rpm that is used in a lot of South American Ford Trucks and is a very popular swap in the Land Rover world).

With gas prices pushing all time highs (I wouldn?t be surprised to be approaching $5/gallon by the time the ?08s are hitting showrooms), and diesel technology very advanced (now that low sulfur fuel will be legislated in the US) I can?t believe that many would not be interested in this option. Depending upon your region of the country, diesel fuel even tends to run about the same, or lower in price than regular unleaded (my area it is consistently a couple of cents less than regular unleaded, but that will likely change with the higher refining costs of the low sulfur fuels). Modern Diesels are almost as quiet as gas engines, and can have very clean emissions on low sulfur fuel (though public perception of old, noisy, smelly diesels would probably be the most difficult to overcome, but you only have to look across the pond to see the advances in technology).

I would think such an option would provide similar on road performance (or likely even better) to the 3.7 I-5, better off road performance and would likely provide true mid-twenties mpg figures (I?ve seen many reports of modified Land Rover Discoveries (33-35? tires) with 2.8 Powerstroke swaps turning in this type of mileage on the freeway, and these are similar weight, lack of aerodynamics vehicles).

[Desert Dan]

I'll pass on the diesel.

I can't imagine being behind a diesel on a trail or having a smelly diesel Gerry can around or on my H3 or Jeep.

I know the new diesels are better just ask Dr. Z

I might go for a Cummings in a Dodge truck if I was doing lots of heavy hauling with a 5th wheel etc.

[NEOCON1]

Originally Posted by Steve - SanJose

Yep, fun, turds and all.

S.

LMFAO that about killed me

[djaqualight]

I have had ZERO problems with speed/acceleration driving on the Dallas freeways daily. I love everything about about my H3. I test drove it, loved it, and signed the dotted line.

[f5fstop]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Clyde, I'll have to disagree with you on a couple of points.

The engine's "power" and the truck's fuel economy do not go hand in hand as you suggest it should. Considering it is a truck designed for off-road use, with no priority given to aero for a reason and it's higher weight in it's class, it get's pretty damn good gas mileage.

Secondly, GM is a car business. Residual value is not high on their business plan for vehicles. The idea is to indroduce a vehicle and sell the crap out of it and then keep improving that vehicle and turn over new vehicle sales as much as possible. If the buyer would do it and the market was capable the process would be set up to make buyers want to buy a new version every year with revisions or improvements to create that desire.

As far as your ideas about the mileage, mileage estimates are not based on speeds of the speed limits on the interstate or higher.

It sounds more like YOU were trying to force a square peg in a round hole. The H3 obviously is not for you if your major concern is it's MPG estimates. That's fine, but you signed your post with "H2 wannabe" and you can expect to average around 12mpg with it and even though it has a 6.0L V-8, it still weighs 7K lbs and has the aero of a barn.

So, I guess I take some exception to your post because it's not making a whole lot of sense to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



As for GM offering something better in '07 from a power standpoint, all I can say is you never know.

As for the powertrain expert at the Saturn Plant, please email me with his name. I would be curious as to who this is. Many of those guys, and I knew most of them, having moved from Columbia TN in June, are like I was; power hungry. Besides, if he was such an engine expert, should he be able to supply the answer to the above statement?

For me, it is all that I asked for, and I realize I cannot beat a Hemi Jeep off the line, but I don't need too.

[DWPC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think by today’s standards the H3 is slow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The H3 performance is comparable with Touareg V6, LR3 V6, Jeep Wrangler, Montero; all strong offroad performers; all but the Jeep costing considerably more. I've driven all in the past 30 days. Fractions of a second differences in published 0-60 times are meaningless.

As far as "today's standards"; the trend for performance and luxury in SUVs is recent and has all but killed off real 4X4 SUVs. I thinks its great that GM seems to returning to SUV roots with the H3.

[Surferjo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

The H3 performance is comparable with Touareg V6, LR3 V6, Jeep Wrangler, Montero; Fractions of a second differences in published 0-60 times are meaningless.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry but I have to disagree. 2 of the 4 trucks you mentioned have a V8 option. The key word there is option.

I don’t think many people would have chosen the I5 over say a Hemi if it were available.

I can live with poor performance if I chose to go with the I5 over some other offering. 2 of the cars you mentioned have options for a V8 (except the Jeep, and the Montero). I think most would agree having a 2nd engine option would have been great.

Let me assure you again, I could give a rat’s ass about 0-60 times. Unfortunately there is really no other way to discus everyday driving statistics.

Also these comparisons are not fractions of a second.

The Jeep posts a 9.1 second 0-60, over 3 seconds better then the H3
The Montero posts a 10.3 second, still 2 seconds better than the H3

On a side note I have an 04 6cyl. Wrangler with a AEM intake kit and I don’t believe for one second this thing can do 0-60 in 9 seconds.

[Surferjo]

I agree with you but if I may play devils advocate for just a second.

I think by today’s standards the H3 is slow. I subscribe to Truck Trend magazine and in the back they list some basic info about SUV’s. The list has about 110 different SUV’s on it. Out of 110 there is only about 4 or 5 that have a slower 0-60 time.

Now is 0-60 time important to me? Not really if it was I wouldn’t have a Boulder Grey on order (with 5-7 weeks to go). I currently drive a Wrangler, the H3 is only marginally worse.

Nobody is arguing that the H3 is an extremely capable off road vehicle.

But one thing you can’t deny is by comparison to the rest of the SUV’s on the market it’s in the bottom percentile for overall acceleration and speed.


Speed has never been my concern as I have always driven a truck of some sort. But for some people the ability to comfortably merge on the freeway is an important factor.

[Sharkster]

Most SUV manufacturers focus on the streetability (does that word exist? ) of the car, therefore sacrificing off-road abilities.

Look at the European SUVs such as the Porsche Cayenne, the Mercedes ML or the BMW X5. All afore mentioned cars have pretty good street driving abilities, but waaaaaay less good off-road abilities when compared to an H3.

GM saw that niche and jumped into it, reaching a big market with it.

Having said that I also do not agree with a lack of power for as long as city driving is concerned... On freeways (autobahn here) I would like to see a little more "kick". But I willingly accept the less power for A) better off road abilities on the other hand, plus acceptable fuel economy and (last but not least) the definitely ICONIC design of the H3.

Just my 2 cents.

[clydecpa]

I have to admit I don't share your optimism about the engine. Several factors played in to my choosing another vehicle over the H3 I had ordered (due to arrive next week.)

A big negative for me was the fact that the engine has weak power given its fuel economy. I still very much want a H3 or H?, whatever the next generation offering ends up being. There's no way GM significantly changes the engine for '07, as it would effectively trash the residual of the current H3. I am optimistic for 2008 that they redesign the engine and come up with something better suited to the H3 application. The I5 is a square peg forced into a round hole vis a vis the H3 IMO.

If you like the I5 I think that's swell. A lot of people have no problem with it. If it could get a legit 20 mpg in mixed driving, I would probably have settled for it, fewer questions asked of GM. People I know who have them are getting 15 mpg with mixed driving, heavy city drivers more like 14, and maybe 17.5 on a hwy trip, but not if you want to drive 80 mph. You gotta go slower, less than 70 mph to get 17+. That's just what I get from some other owners, YMMV.

When they have a Hummer that suits my driving style and requirements on AND off road, believe me I will be at the front of the line, foaming at the mouth. It more than meets them off road now, but has a lot to be desired on road, where let's face it, MOST of us do MOST of our driving.

[humv]

Your always going to get critics on any subject no matter what. All vehicles have good as well as bad points.... to small, to slow, uses to much gas, not good off road.. the list goes on and on. I have an H3 and don't mind it being a little slow. I test drove one and knew that from the get go.Thats why you test drive do research and make a decision! It is a pure and simple choice on what you feel comfortable with and what the wallet will tolerate.

[H3Witch]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by juice57:
If you guy's share my view point please let me know, because I feel like I am going Nuts! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm with you...it's "Like Nothing Else"...so I don't care about comparisons.