New to offroading, how does the H3 compare with an Jeep Rubicon?

[EricJ]

As the title suggests I'm new to off-roading and I have a couple of co-workers who drive Jeep rubicons that give me crap about the Hummer. I know most of this is just for fun. However, for those who are into off-roading and have some experience, how does the H3 compare with say a new Jeep Rubicon? Will I be able to go on the same expeditions and weekend adventures as my co-workers?

[bparker]

fuentex:

Please dont argue (not saying you are as you are debating well but I see this thread starting to digress).

You have made some very nice posts and accurate. I have owned both a higly modified ZJ and now the H3 and you are correct on all points.

I agree the Rubi and the Rubi ULs are different animals and I thinkt he H3 should be compared to a lifted GC myself.

There are pros and cons to everything so only in the eye of the beholder is one of them percieved to be the best. Let that sink in....

[fuentex]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ChevyHighPerformance:
fuentex,

The 1st picture of the H3 looks like the drivers rear tire is about 18 inches below the pass. rear tire and the pass front has about over 16 inches to hit the ground. It looks like the H3 body is being twisted in opposite directions. Would the rubi really be able to keep all 4 wheels on the ground here?

The rubi picture seems to show the rear wheels and pass fron at the same elevation while the drivers front is elevated about 16 inches. It looks like the rubi has a very stiff front sway bar, since the body is aligning with the front wheels.

The 2nd hummer picture seems to show another uneven twist of the h3. The drivers front looks about 10ish inches lower while the pass rear need about 10 more inches to hit the ground.

It could be the way these pitures were taken too.

In both H3 pictures the H3 body seems more flat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good points but those are the pictures that I have.

Typically, the TJs (read: solid axles) do a good job in keeping tires down in situations like the first H3 is in because the "high" tire pushes the "low" tire to the ground.

Edit: Kinda like this... this one's lifed and all, but you get the idea. This just happens on both ends independently of the body when opposite corners are "high"

[bparker]

sfox:

I will do my talking on the trail and if need be argue face to face and not on the internet.

I doesnt matter if you are driving a monster truck as its all about who is driving it and what THEY are capable of.

I have owned Chevy all my life so please make note. But I do recognize the pros or the Rubis and am not afriad to admit it. But which one did I buy???

Take care,

Brent

[FELNTPSY]

Woops, I'm the friend that started this whole deal. Picked up my wife's H3 last Monday. Fuentex and I will be going wheel'n with in the next couple of months to test the H3 out. I think that both parties have valid points...the Hummer v. Jeep debate will be like the Ford v. Chevy debate....mostly brand loyalty and neither party will total accept the other...just a fact. What should be said and somewhat has been said, is that each vehicle is capable in its own way and in the way that it was designed. The hinderance of most Hummers on our trails here in the east is the large size of the vehicle when compared to the narrower width of a jeep. However as a jeep owner and a Hummer owner now I will just have to see what happens. I WILL wheel the H3 to see how it does and give an honest opinion. It will be difficult to even begin to compare its performance with my jeep since the Scrambler is far from stock.

As for IFS...my bro's XJ has front coils and runs 38 boggers. I have seen him actually over come some obstacles b/c his stiff arse suspension was able to lift one of the front tires over a hole....I couldn't take the same obstacle because the "Rat" is just too damn flexy. However, I've taken other obstacles that the flex allowed me to walk easily up and he flopped on the side.

Two different types of vehicles, both designed for offroad usage, but different driving styles are needed for each and must be adjusted to the vehicle and terrain. I would not drive a stock Unlimited the same way I drive my CJ8, and will not drive the Hummer the same as the 8. The combination of skill, rig capability, rig engineering, and etc. will ultimatly determine what the vehicle can do. Neither rig Hummer or Rubicon of any flavor are designed to be "point-and-shoot" trail rigs.

[FormerJeeper]

BTW, the TJ doesn't have coilovers - look more closely

-C

[Desert Dan]

When I get my H3 I will let you know! I hope to keep my Rubicon but add an H3 in the future!

The H3 does not have a front locker but with the Adventure Package you get 4.56:1 axle gears the Rubicon has only 4.11:1 gears.

Most people with Rubicon’s add a lift and a new t-case skid plate to get rid of the factory low hanging "shovel" and add 33" tires. All of this is not under a factory warranty or financing.

The Jeep is much lighter and has a shorter wheelbase. The Jeep will have more per to it since it has much less weight to haul around and the engine is made for low end torque. The Jeep will articulate more if you are into rockcrawling.

But with the Jeep you don't have 4 doors or creature comforts and the H3 has a bigger gas tank and probably better gas mileage. The H3 has more safety features than a basic Wrangler.

The H3 will be better on the road for sure and some places better off road where a long wheel bas come in handy!

[fuentex]

Yeah, I mentioned that it was lifted and not stock when I posted the picture.

[HummerNewbie]

PFM, sounds like a good new term for the forum

Great reviews fuentex and Jim.

Jim, where exactly in the Ozarks are you?

[fuentex]

The grey one (mine) that I posted has the swaybars connected, it's dead stock.

I'm sure the second one I posted has them disconnected though.

I'd be really interested to see an H3 with swaybar discos if someone has a pic. I'd like to see the difference.

[HummerJim]

Excellent review Fuentex! I would have to agree with a lot that you said. I was a confirmed Jeep man for many years because of where I live, but now find myself enjoying the differences of my Hummer. The Jeep does have some unique abilities offroad, but I find I can actually hear my radio in the H3 at highway speeds, ride the dog around with out him breathing down my neck, have an air conditioner that really keeps me comfortable, a seat that is really comfortable, and can do almost everything I need it to do offroad that 95% of the SUVs out there won't. Even in its base form the H3 is a luxurious ride. Oh yes, one other thing, this thing attracts attention every time you park it.
When tropical storm Dennis came through MO I got to finally see what the H3 would do in some serious mud driving up the trail to the house and through the creek. It made it where few other SUVs would dare to tread, but yesterday at 5,800 miles I put on 4 Goodyear Wrangler AT/Ss and the spare. I've had a lot of experience with these tires on two past 4 X 4s and became sold on them when I noticed on a vacation in Alberta, Canada, they are used almost exclusively on all the Calgary and Banff rescue 4 X 4s, being fantastic snow tires and those are always excellent mudders too. They seem to have a unique tread design that flexes the tread with remarkable self cleaning abilities and they wear well for such an aggressive tread design with not much noise either. I've had my old Jeep up to the hubs in snow and mud with these and like them - personal preference you might say.
I encountered my first problem when I energetically power washed the mud off the undercarriage last night and got a Check Engine
light followed by a Stability Sytem? annunciation. The H3 ran fine, so I pulled it in the garage and looked underneath and saw no hanging wires. About an hour later I went out and started it up and no annunciations and no problem. I'll have to step down the pressure on my power washer and I'm guessing I probably sprayed high pressure water into some sensor.
Took it out to get the paper this morning and no warning - pfm as we used to say in the Air Force.

[bparker]

hahaha, ya this is true, and I hope I didnt offend anyone. I love my H3 more than I did my Vette. Well maybe my vette just got old to me but I and my GF are having a blast in the H3. I dont care if it was a piece of **** on the trail (which I know its not), I love it!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:
See, you must not be NEARLY as bored at work todayas I am...fighting on the internet can kill an hour faster than just about anything else

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[richk]

Last year I sold my 2004 Jeep Wrangler. I had upgraded it with 4.5" lift, 33" tires, 4.56 gears. After I finished I was unhappy with the engine performance so I had an avenger super charger installed (which was great). After driving it for 6 months after that here are some of reasons I decided to sell:

The backseat was almost useless. I have 2 teenagers and they were very cramped in the back seat, so much so that we didn't use the Jeep as a family.
Even with the hard top the interior noise was annoying. I was wishing for a quieter car.
The ride was harse for a daily driver.
The gas milease was bad, around 15mpg, and to make matters worse the supercharger required premium fuel.

In the end I decided that the Jeep was too utilitarian for my lifestyle. It would have been great for a 2nd vehicle (toy, etc).

I think the H3 will be a great combination of off-road ruggedness and everyday driveability!

[PARAGON]

I failed to mention something in my earlier post. Both the H2/H3 have traction control and will divert torque to the wheel with the highest resistance. While on the trail you can let this happen dynamically or in some cases use the 2 foot technique I described earlier.

I also failed to point out that many consider the H1/HMMWV to be virtually unstoppable sans it's width issues. Simply considering it's ability. And it utilizes a fully independent suspension system but the entire vehicle was designed around that drivetrain/suspension. Again, sum of the parts.

The point I guess I am trying to make is that the idea that the H3 doesn't "unlock" the swaybars might not be an issue because of the overall design of the vehicle. It might be that the engineers feel that in most situations that the traction control/rear locker will be enough to pull it through most obstacles. The truck does not have to have all 4 tires on the ground to move. All it needs is one with just enough traction and enough torque from the drivetrain.

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EricJ:
Thanks for the replies. I know skill will be a big factor and that will take some time to develop. I just hear alot of whining like little girls especially regarding the H2 from the Jeep crowd here were I work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fixed.

[FormerJeeper]

Another thing to bear in mind if you are comparing an H3 with a GC...

If you have the misfortune of rolling either offroad, chances are you will be able to repair the damage to an H3 due to its solid frame design.

A GC, like all Cherokkes is of unibody construction
and analogous to a beer can. If you roll it off road it is done.
This has happened to more people than I care to remember. I 'almost' rolled my '98 Cherokee with 2000 miles on it coming down the infamous Thomson Hill on the famous Dusy Ershim trail.

Here is a link to this trail for the interested...

http://www.californiajeeper.com/dusy_ershim/review.htm

-C

[FormerJeeper]

So fox,

You r the offroading Hummer guy...

Is it common to disco the swaybars on H2 offroad?
I used to disco my highly lifted TJ front and rear.
Others used to leave the rear connected and use some form of "Anti-rock" up front.

-C

[PARAGON]

Let's use that last picture as an example. Do you really thing that Jeep is gaining extra traction with the PS front tire? It is not being "forced" to the ground.

Actually, along those lines I have wanted to see someone put some scales under the PS front tire that's on the ground on the Articulation Rack to see just how much force is being applied to the ground from that tire.

I have seen many of them, and quite honestly the only point of the articulation in those situations is to keep the vehicle from flipping, not gaining extra traction.

[fuentex]

I'd agree with everything you said if you are comparing an H3 and a Wrangler X (base model).

I'd agree with a few things if you are comparing a regular Wrangler Rubicon (space is very minimal/restricted and I'd never consider one)

You get a whole new level of functionality with a Rubicon Unlimited (what I own and a much better comparison to an H3). My friend who bought the H3 looked hard at a Rubi LJ too and went with the H3 for the comfort level and passenger room (no agument here on either of those counts).

Having not seen an H3 in person, can you get the 25 fence posts in with the rear seat up? If so, I'm very impressed. If not, are you aware that the rear seat of a Wrangler comes out and in the Unlimited flavor that opens up a very large space in the back. True that it's certainly not the size of the H3 cargo area and you have to plan ahead to take the seat out (does anyone pick up 25 fence posts on the spur of the moment though ), but I helped a friend move with the rear seat out and it held an amazing amount of crap (especially with the hard top that you can just pile things up against, I had the hard top on at the time). I'm not saying it can haul as much/more than an H3 by any means, just that it's WAY more functional than a regular Wrangler if you weren't aware.

I would disagree with the comment about the off-road differences being minimal in some categories, as the suspension flex photos and lack of a front locker would indicate. Both of those, while not being a dealbraker offroad by any means, are quite significant in my mind. Here on the east coast prerunning and sand driving are not real big as there's just no place to do them, so I'm talking from the trail riding/rockcrawling POV and can't speak to that terrain.

And of course, it's obvious that if you want anything that has the word "luxury" in the description, the H3 is the choice as it was for my friend.

Without a single power option, no leather (but the A/C works incredibly well... as opposed to what some people have apparently heard/experienced) and a "Jeep-like" driving experience, the Rubicon Unlimited wouldn't be for you

Just a counterpoint again...

[Desert Dan]

I am sure this debate will stir up lots of talk in the Hummer and Jeep crowd......


A few more things to add...

The H3 has a roof rack and more payload and towing capacity.