RUBICON

[FULLSIZE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hognose:

Keith, Steve, or anybody else for that matter, if we ever meet on a trail, let me be the first to extend my hand and offer you a beer, for we all share the common bond of enjoying the outdoors and pushing our vehicle limits off road. If you lead me somewhere I cannot follow...well... I guess that means I owe you another beer and I'll be getting to work on my rig so the next time we hit the trail you'll be the one getting winched out....by me...;-)


Chris<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

very well said. i would gladly have and open tool box or cooler for a guy with an attitude like yours.

a heep with big rubber for runnin over little(sluice)rocks

[crash]

Like the tone change...

I agree, doesn't matter what you wheel..

certified H2 tech.

[Keith Strong]

OK. I am only going address a couple things for the last time and hopefully clarify MY position about you guys.

1. Damage to your rigs. I believe you WILL incur damage to your rigs on the con. I PERSONALLY would not take my 40, 50 or 60K dollar rig on that trail. I think you guys are crazy for doing so. BUT! I think its COOL! I love the fact that you guys are willing to take your rigs in to a trail where damage is all but inevitable. I think its sweet you guys enjoy wheeling and are willing to wheel your Hummers. Many people are street pansie mall crawlers and I respect you guys for using your rigs for their intended purpose. I WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING TO INTENTIONALLY INFLECT HARM OR DAMAGE TO ANYONE"S VEHICLE OR PERSON. For you guys to say I want to inflect damage on your rigs is ludicrous. How could I do that? I wont be driving. But I will not lie and say I dont like to see carnage (from ANY rig) and dont expect to see it on your rigs. I was not one of the people on the PBB saying the mean things you are accusing me of. What I have said has been clearly stated in this thread, and I will be happy to speak to anyone about it face to face, on the phone, or via e-mail. I have nothing to hide.

2. Leaving a hummer on the trail. I think I worded this poorly before. My comment was intended DIRECTLY at Dennis. Anyone that has ever met me, wheeled with me, or come across me in life knows I am the first one to offer help. I have GIVEN out many parts on the trail, assisted in vehicle recovery's, stacked rocks, winched, and wrenched on random people's rigs too many times to count. I have been on the broken side of the fence as well. Dennis rubbed me the wrong way with his threats of Guns and Violence, and I have little to no tolerance for that. I spoke rashly and apologize to everyone EXCEPT Dennis. I would drive around him on the trail as he has proven to me he is not a contributing member of the off road community. I can even sight an example of the time I was peacefully enjoying a Sunday on my couch with my wife, and got a call from a club member. A friend of HIS I barely knew was broken on the con. I loaded up all my gear and tools and parts and spent 8-9 hours helping that person fix his rig (replaced his entire front axle) ON THE TRAIL.

3. Sincerity. I was sincere from the start about helping those individuals that wish to go to the con. I had convinced my club to change their original plans from running the Fordyce trail that weekend to going to the con to assist them. Since then and due to some other circumstances group wide we have decided to stick with the original fordyce plan, but my hand is still extended to assist you guys in any runs I possibly can. I will reiterate I think its COOL you guys are gonna run the trail.

To set the record straight. I am a nice guy. I help people whenever I possibly can.....both on the trail or in general life. I view the 4x4 world as a COMMUNITY the same way I view people in the world. I am not racist against skin color or ethnic background....so why the hell would I care what kind of vehicle you drive? I might tease you about breaking something......or heckle you through an obstacle.....but I can GUARANTEE I have probably broken more parts in a weekend on the con than most of you EVER HAVE! I have been there, done that, and I too will be the first one out of my rig to offer my hand shake and a beer, and also the first one out of my rig to stack rocks, help spot, or turn a wrench for anyone that needs it.

I hope that will clarify for you guys where I stand.

www.rps4wd.com

[This message was edited by Keith Strong on 10-08-03 at 08:20 AM.]

[Keith Strong]

By the way Chris (hognose)

My hats off to you....said with eloquence and perfection.....exactly what everyone needs to remember.



www.rps4wd.com

[This message was edited by Keith Strong on 10-08-03 at 08:32 AM.]

[Cranky Steve]

I could not have said it better than Brandon, Fullsize, Keith or hognose have. My hat's off to you guys as well!



Founding Member of RCRC 4wd Club Scaramento, CA www.rcrc4x4.com
Pirate4x4.com Vendor & Toyota Truck and 4Runner Talk Forum Moderator

[DennisAJC]

Keith,

It's nice to know all it was all directed at me. So be it. These are a bunch of good people on this Forum. If you had been here long enough you would see why tempers get out of hand. Pictures are thrown, names are called, threats are insinuated. Seriously, go back on these threads and topics. The **** we get exposed to in 1 month(IN REAL LIFE), you would never see in years.

GUNS AND VIOLENCE???? I think you are more educated than that. Any Forum member would (including YOU) would react the same way to threats planned by the pricks from pirate. Most of these guys including me have families who love the H2 and ride in it constantly.

Aside from the ooohhs and aaahhhs, we get sneers, jeers, fingers, spit, gum, keys, kicks, burns, sugar, you name it..it's been done.

If a person guides my family into danger through the guise of good will and one of my kids gets seriously harmed...or my wife, myself???

If I had a knife......
If I had a gun......
If I had a rope.....
My bare hands...
Would you Keith??? Would anyone? Sure let the law handle it. But in many cases, by the time the cops get there...it's too late.

Simply put, if it were MY family, yes I would use my rescources to it's fullest...It's just me.

I've read your post at RPS, well...your public posts. You guys like to talk in code or some **** talk you guys agreed to in private before you went public, I don't care. Seems harmless. Mabye you are a good guy and I hope you are what you stated you are. So are we. We just want to have fun. But for us, sometimes it's hard to have fun.

Mabye someday, I'll hand you a beer.

Have fun everyone and be safe.

He ain't heavy.....
He's ma HUMMER baby!
03 NUDE Pewter Lux H2
03 Dressed Range Rover

"Give a guy a Civic, he thinks he has a Ferrari.
So is true with yours...Give it up! It`s not a Hummer."

[Brandon]

Just to clarify something here, most of us "other rig wheelers" have families too..

I do not carry a gun, or a knife. If some ahole messed with my family I would not fight unless it was defense and a last resort. I appreciate a rig that someone has put their time and work into, I'll admit I am more of a built than bought person but I can appreciate any rig and any driver that appreciates the sport.

Here is me and my son in a 53 M38A1. I see kids on the trail all the time, and just wanted to stress that point since Dennis seems to use family like it is something we don't have..

[DennisAJC]

Brandon,

Cute kid. I don't have a beef with you.
Keith and I are just trying to understand each other.

Being an ex-heeper, I do admire your rig.

He ain't heavy.....
He's ma HUMMER baby!
03 NUDE Pewter Lux H2
03 Dressed Range Rover

"Give a guy a Civic, he thinks he has a Ferrari.
So is true with yours...Give it up! It`s not a Hummer."

[Steve R]

LORD HAVE MERCY.....or Jason, put an end to this thread....

Dennis...it's time to stand-down and give it a break. You're a very good guy, but this thread has brought out the worst in you. I think a lot of your humor flies by people and is perhaps interpreted in an ill manner. Because this thead has gone well beyond topic...I'm gonna ask that you stand-down and just put this all behind you. Please...this is not a productive thing, and you know darn well how much time can be spent wasted on this...I'm asking you to stand-down....

Keith...that was an excellent post and while I can't speak for the majority of people here...I think everything is very cool with you and your buds at this point. I want to sorta thank you for tolerating some abusive crap that came your way. As it has been pointed out, we're a bit of an abused group with a bumpy history or "attacks". Most other brands scoff at us...and even our own H1 brothers give us grief on occassion.

I don't think these you guys (Keith, etc) wanted to see our H2's get trashed...they're just proud of their trail, their rigs and what they can accomplish. I myself have taken a few "other" rigs on trails where I figure they may have trouble. I don't think anyone wants to see damage, carnage or harm come to anyone or any rig. Those guys were just talkin' house on their own forum. If you know what I mean, great....if you don't, I doubt I could explain it.

JRT, you're welcome and have always been welcome to join us in Big Bear or wherever we go...do I have ya on my email list?

Somebody on their list said: a moron can get a rock-buggy stuck in a gravel pit, and an expert driver can get a stock rig through the 'con' without a scratch.

In the end...they're just different vehicles. I can throw 6 adults, dressed in formal wear in my Hummer, drive them 2 hours smoothly at 85 mph and arrive in comfort. These rock-crawlers are purpose-specific. There is no comparison...and I don't think these guys were trying to compare anyways.

[Loppy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DennisAJC:
Loppy,

I respect that, you may be correct. But just surf around. Mabye you'll understand.
As for hiding behind the key board well...check my posts...I'll invite you too.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I don't see myself in Canada anytime soon. However if I were to be lucky enough to find myself in your neck of the woods, I would be excited by the prospect of some lively discussion and malted beverages. Weather it's true in your case or not, my statement remains the same. Being a tough guy behind a keyboard is pointless and rediculous. We've all seen them come and go. I myself and not afraid of physical confrontation and am well equipped to perform what is necessary. But I do not cross bridges before they appear. You sound like a very intellegent person, I'm sure you realize the waste of bandwidth it is to talk about fighting on the internet.

I will say this in your defense. There is some very moronic and worthless trash that frequent the Pirate BB. Myself and my friends, who have been on that board since it incepted have had to deal with them too. I did not see the Pirate BB thread that started the flame war, but I can completely understand why you reacted to what I can immagine was less than thoughful comments. But please, do not automatically associate such mindless imbosils with us and the other guys who posted up and wanted to wheel with guys here. We were and continue to be honest and sincere. We're not unlike the crowd here at all. We just choose other brands of vehicle. The key word here is choose.

So there it is. I hope you find it in your heart to understand where I am comming from and we can all let this go and have some fun on the trail. I know I'm ready!

One more thing. You mentioned you're in the Sacramento area on business here and then. Don't hesitate to contact me. We can share beer or throw down. I'd prefer the former, but either is fine by me. We can even run up the hill and run the Con. Hell, you can even drive my junk, if you think you can handle being seen in it. (that was a joke! hahaha...)

Cheers,

Jeff

Scars are tattos with better stories

[DennisAJC]

Loppy,

I was just in the middle of sending you an apology off topic! Yes I'm for that!

The beer that is, physical confrontation would have to be booked by my secretary!

He ain't heavy.....
He's ma HUMMER baby!
03 NUDE Pewter Lux H2
03 Dressed Range Rover

"Give a guy a Civic, he thinks he has a Ferrari.
So is true with yours...Give it up! It`s not a Hummer."

[Cranky Steve]

That's great Dennis, how 'bout an apology to the rest of us so called "Trolls"?

I've read this whole thread over several times and when I see the first few very friendly exchanges you and I had still fail to see what set you off so hard on us.

So, if this will help you, I offer my sincere appology to you, for whatever I may have done that offended you. Let us all know when your in Nor Cal, beers on us.

Founding Member of RCRC 4wd Club Scaramento, CA www.rcrc4x4.com
Pirate4x4.com Vendor & Toyota Truck and 4Runner Talk Forum Moderator

[DennisAJC]

I think for the good of the Forum, I'll say this...

To all the guests to this Forum who have contibuted with good intentions, I AM SORRY you had to endure my vomit.

To all the Forum Members, I am especially sorry for my behaviour. Regardless of what I'm feeling now for Detonate, the apology extends to him.

No apology for the trolls.

Let's move on...

He ain't heavy.....
He's ma HUMMER baby!
03 NUDE Pewter Lux H2
03 Dressed Range Rover

"Give a guy a Civic, he thinks he has a Ferrari.
So is true with yours...Give it up! It`s not a Hummer."

[Loppy]

E group hug. *tear in eye*

Back on topic:

I think we're going to stick with the original plan and run Fordyce that weekend unless we can be convinced otherwise. Any of you guys interested in Fordyce? I know it does'nt have the Rubicon name, but let me tell you, if you have'nt run it, you need to. One helluva trail. In many aspects, better than Con. Kick it around...

Scars are tattos with better stories

[JRT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cranky Steve:

So, if this will help you, I offer my sincere appology to you, for whatever I may have done that offended you. Let us all know when your in Nor Cal, beers on us.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Don't need an apology here (mostly because I was an antagonist as well) but I would extend the same offer from the SoCal area.

d

[Loppy]

Oh, and thanks Dennis for your email.

Scars are tattos with better stories

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alec W:
Dennis, go read the link I just posted in off topic and send it to your wife. Maybe that will take your mind off this for a while
.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Alec! Wifey agrees. Gonna get sum tonight! Gonna, Gonna, GONNNNAAAA git sum tonight!

He ain't heavy.....
He's ma HUMMER baby!
03 NUDE Pewter Lux H2
03 Dressed Range Rover

"Give a guy a Civic, he thinks he has a Ferrari.
So is true with yours...Give it up! It`s not a Hummer."

[Steve R]

.....and so, once again...peace and harmony prevails over the H2 forum

I saw a pic of Loppy over on their forum...and I just knew he'd help orchestrate some peace and mellowness in his own Jerry Garcia-ish sort of way. They say you can't judge a book by the cover....but that guy just transcends harmony and eminates a radiant aura...THAT or he just has gas. Hats off to ya bro!

I thoroughly intend on taking you guys up on your offer to escourt us through some of that beautiful area. We've got ourselves a swell club of adventurers eager to explore....I couldn't think of better guides/co-pilots!

Here's my challenge to you: get our wide-ass, limited articulating, low-clearance, 3-ton+ vehicles through what you consider some of your finest trails......without damage! There's your challenge...let's see which one of you RPSer's can get these pigs to dance! Since we're coming from hundreds of miles away...we really can't risk tearing things apart..so a scenic tour with some fun obstacles would be delightful.

I'd also love to see you guys tackling the nastiest of the nasty...and by that I don't mean having to pay to fill our gas tanks I'm talking about finding some nasty areas on the con and getting some kind video shots!

I'd kill for an opporutnity to drive some of those rigs too.

[Brandon]

I'd highly suggest doing the "short loop" of Fordyce, I don't think the width would be an issue and it is a beautiful trail.

The full trail would be interesting because of a few spots but doable. Trees would not be your friend on the Rubicon, you would be true tree huggers

Actually since they re-routed the trail go in wentworth and honestly width is not as much as an issue any more. Wentworth is a great campground, then you go till you don't want to go anymore, maybe go back to camp.