Ocean City Maryland beach hummer accident

[PARAGON]

This is all adding insult to injury. First is the now the comment the the coordinates WERE passed along to the Rangers, but a previous article that says it was information retained from the tapes says the Rangers DID NOT get the coordinates. Read the first post in this thread on page 1. It specifically says that FROM THE TAPES, the Rangers did not get the coordinates from 911. Now this fudge is saying they did.

This is ridiculous in a situation as serious as this. This cover-your-ass attitude is nothing but an insult in and of itself. But I am infuriated at the quote from Fudge at the end of the article. His position is to blame everything on the driver because he was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be and says he was speeding. This Clintonian double-speak and misdirection is unforgivable. It's sad that it all happened, it's sad that the system broke down, but to say that nothing needs to be changed because they did what they were supposed to and the driver was not following the rules is simply low life cover-your-ass attempts.

I would like to see this guy in front of a hearing on not only the policy but on his conduct since this has happened. I am truly angry about this insolence and just can't put my true thought down in to written words right now. I assure you I am finding someone to write to about this and I suggest others do the same.

[ckhagman]

We all know that Lat/Lon. coordinates are not very accurate but that 911 operator is a moron. She stated, "OK, we’ll see what we can do with that." It is like she didn't know what they would use them for. Of course OnStar has to get better with GPS coordinates. They should be standard practice when giving a location.

[HUMMERDOGG]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
In my postings, I attacked the arrogant hummorons (yes, that name was what I think of you) who believe that you are somehow better than everyone else. After all, you drive your big vehicles so that when you run into someone else, they'll get killed, not you.

Certainly not every hummer owner fits the stereotype, but enough of you do that is the reason the stereotype exists.

I guess I'm a little confused by the "sterotype" that has suddenly been formed in the past two years regarding owners of H2's. For the most part, I must pass between 10 and 15 H2's a day driving in Northwest Houston. I would say at least 2/3's of the drivers are females between the ages of say 18 and say 48. They definitely appear to be people who would normally be driving a Tahoe but, given the chance to own something different, chose an H2.

Now granted, those numbers aren't substantiated with the membership that you will see here. For the most part, the group here is mostly male between the ages of 20 and 50. Now, I can tell you, most of the group from what I can tell are professionals who like the look of the H2 and don't mind the gas mileage. The H2 was something different to do, kind of like the Corvette or Viper. Now, speaking from experience, I historically have been a crewcab pickup guy but decided to give the H2 a shot after seeing it and test driving it. I do like it but intend on eventually getting an older model H1 and another crewcab diesel pickup.

I only say all of this because I don't believe people purchase H2's because they think they are better than everybody else. I mean, if that was the case, why stop there. Just go ahead and get a Range Rover, Porsche Cayenne, Mercedes G-wagon, lexus Lx 450(?) or BMW X-5 and truly demonstrate that you have $60K to $90K to spend on a car... When all factored in, the Hummer H2 is a very nicely priced vehicle competitive in price to Tahoe Z-71, Yukon Denali and Cadillac Escalade. (With discounts and rebates you can pick one up for around $600/month which in today's world isn't too bad a deal.) You can't sit there and tell me that everytime you see someone driving a Tahoe, Denali or Escalade, you think the same thing-******* with an attitude...

Now, with regards to "drive your big vehicles so that when you run into someone else, they'll get killed, not you." You really don't believe this, do you? If so, I've got a better forum for you to go to http://www.thedieselstop.com/

There you will find close to 51,000 owners of Ford Diesel Crewcab Longbed Trucks, Duallys, and even the dreaded... "Excursion"... The Ultimate Gas Guzzler and Road Hog. I'm sure the members over there would welcome you with open arms... Especially when you start complaining about how big the trucks are that they drive...

Anyways, I really think when you look at the number of Ford, Chevy, and Dodge Truck Owners in the marketplace, they should be your target audience if your true issue is the size of the vehicle. Crewcab Longbed Trucks make the H2 look small and with their heavier diesel engine make more of an impact in a crash...

[ROX]

http://www.co.worcester.md.us/Emerge...1%20Center.htm
9-1-1 Center

Serving as the Public Safety Answering Point, or PSAP, for Worcester County, the office is responsible for answering all 9-1-1 calls for service placed in Worcester County. This includes Ocean City, a year-round resort that often has a summer time population exceeding 250,000 people. The 9-1-1 Center has 14 9-1-1 trunks to accomodate numerous calls for service at one time. Using five identical Plant Equipment, Inc. consoles, Communication Clerks instantly receive Automatic Number Identification (ANI) and Automatic Location Information (ALI) on their E-911 screens. If the call for service is for an agency we direct dispatch for, the clerk will take down all pertinent information for the call and give to the appropriate clerk for dispatch. If the call for service is for one of the local municipal police department's in the County (we have five), we will transfer that call to them on their dedicated emergency line. We can also transfer callers to our four neighboring county 9-1-1 Centers, Wicomico and Somerset in Maryland, Accomac in Virginia, and Sussex County in Delaware. Along with the Sheriff's Department, the Maryland State Police Barracks in Berlin has primary responsibility for law enforcement within the non-municipal portions of the County. We rotate calls for service with MSP.

Our primary back-up in case of a 9-1-1 failure is Ocean City. Ocean City has elected to direct dispatch their own police and fire units. When a call for service is received for Ocean City, the call is immediately transferred to dispatcher's at the Town of Ocean City Public Safety Center. There, dispatcher's have the same telephone equipment as we do, and instantaneously receive ANI / ALI on their screen's. Ocean City has the ability to dispatch all of our police and fire resources should that need arise, as we also have the ability to dispatch all of their's also.

We also transfer calls for service to the United States Coast Guard and the Maryland Poison Control Center. Utilizing a "Language Line", we are able to assist foreign speaking callers as well.

[h2co-pilot]

4@thebeach, Your a little late on this thread and casting quick judgments as well my friend. I suggest you read the entire thread before you insult these two gentlemen.

[Marcmedic]

I too have been involved in EMS and Search and Rescue as a volunteer and proffesional for over 25 years

And you should also be embarrased by their actions. Just curious as to what your involvement is with EMS and search and rescue? Anybody in this field with an ounce of pride in what they do should be outraged at public safety response to this incident.

[tower]

Marc,
I totally agree.

H2c,
Thank you.

4@tb,
Pony up, I've been doing this since 1980. What's your position and rank and who do you work for?

[VTSTOMPER]

Can we all just agree that is was a tragic event and hope that nothing like this ever happens to anyone ever again? I hope that we all learned something here about 4weeling, and how sometimes every safety measure cannot save everyone, every time. Would I lock this thread if I could? Probably seeing how hummoron is acting in such a way that will only add to more and more replies, wasting bandwidth. Well, at least there are many adults here that are not whining their hatred for Hummers and all basic capitalism. Then only to turn and take it out on the poor soles that are no longer with us. After all it just ends up fueling to the all mighty hummer haters. If you hate my hummer, great, good…I love the fact that you do, after all it's you right. But coming onto a Hummer forum to talk poorly about Hummer is one thing. To start mocking people that have loved ones that died in a tragic death is horrific. Only because they are driving a hummer - holding them to a higher level of stupidity is immensely amazing on its own. As Linda said, mistakes were made…yes! Mistakes by what sounds like everyone involved pretty much had one or two mistakes probably. We like to call that human error. It can happen when you misjudge a cooking recipe…oh well…it can also happen and cost people lives…when this happens it is truly a sickening thing. Please find it in your heart to see your reflection in the mirror and just allow all whom died to rest in piece.

[tower]

Dear Paragon,

I don't think I disagree with anything you have said. I was assuming that the coordinates that the Onstar operator gave, were the last available and that the vehicle submerged and quit transmitting. Hence, the full search.

I also agree that there was a system breakdown and had better choices been made by any number of individuals at a few different points in time, the outcome might have been less grim. I strongly suspect that there will be significant changes in interdepartmental policies consequent to this investigation. I just get really bummed when people have to pay with their lives for agencies to get their protocols together.

Be well friend,
t~

[Andy C]

Oh and due to my vunerable sensitivity I now have to sell my BMW because I have a mental image of you not going to BMW forums to cry about me - oh well back to bicycles again.

[h2co-pilot]

[beachinJeeper]

If I may, and as a regular on the site mentioned previously, it should be known that many of us there are on the beach 2-3 days at a time fishing, maybe 8 months out of the year, so maybe we know the Island and it's rangers better than alot of people.

Couple things come to mind about the accident, and the roll, as close as I can logically figure is, it was dark, probably not driving in the water but along the adjacent beach, can't say how fast he may have been driving, but from experience, probably faster than the 25mph limit. Along the beach's edge, the tides can create "drop-offs" some I have seen 3' and greater, so, scenerio in my mind would be, travelling slighty (for the sake of argument) more than the posted speed, at night, came upon an "edge" which was either seen too late or not at all, and the vehicle rolled.

What bothers me the most though is the talk about the rangers, and maybe changes need to be made, but shouldn't effect those of us who know the rules and follow them, which may just happen, and thus because of the "stupidity" of the minority, the majority may end up getting screwed. The rangers have about 18 miles of legal ORV area, guess some of which may be 1/2 mile wide or more (not sure), to keep an eye out on, so a vehicle in an emergency situation, it could be assumed by some of the "facts" presented, should have had an ORV permit, known the rules and therefore on the ORV zone. Now, driving from the ORV entrance down to the Virginia line itself is about a half hours drive, then, who nows how much time could be spent driving the reckognized crossovers that take one west toward the bay, but figure one could take another half hour looking in each of theses areas,so I could see one spending almost 4 hours or more searching the ORV area alone. So, maybe, that is where the search was done. Heard quite a few times where vehicles were in an emergincy situations, but by the time the rangers arrived, either others helped them, or managed on their own to get out of, with no call to the rangers, so rangers have looked for vehicles in an emergency situation, of course finding nothing.

Also, off the ORV, and nothing exactly indicated it was on the ORV, there are other access areas toward the bayside, where vehicles are permitted, so maybe those areas another hour or two search. So, a thorough search of allowed vehicle access may take upwards of 5-6 hours or more to accomplish.

Also, the area of the accident was in the area of the rangers station, amazingly enough, where if one had walked west away from the ocean, maybe a five or ten minute walk, help would have been there, so, maybe another reason to focus on the ORV area.

Now can say first hand seen some "inexperiencd" drivers on the ORV when schools get out, driving fast (too fast), doing doughnuts and flat out wrecklessly driving, seen some rollers, but very few in the years there, plenty of burried to the frames, broken axles and blown engines.

Me, don't know for a fact lawsuits filed, it wouldn't surprise me, one can sue for just about anything in this here good ol' US of A, and though, yes a tragic accident, would hate for the Park Service to be blamed for many driver errors that might have occirred that night. Believe it or not, they do their jobs, and feel they do them well,and are more than willing to go above and beyond their "stated duties". But to blame them, when, the driver took his vehicle in a "no vehicles permitted" area, which is clearly signed (and nobody has said whether he had a valid permit or not at this point), probably exceeding the posted speed, and even if not drinking, so will assume they were not, if you are not familiar with the beach, surprises can be just ahead of you, and before you realize it, best case, you are stuck to the frame, or, as in this case, a tragic accident occurs.

I am sorry for the loss of lives, and feel for the families involved, and my prayers are with them, but we here in America must begin to place blame where it belongs, on the individuals, and not looking to pin the blame on others.

Just my two cents worth as an AI regular, so those that feel the need, go ahead and bash away, I am a big boy, I can take it.

Me, nothing against Hummers or the owners, but.

Have Jeep will travel

[PARAGON]

Less than a quarter of a mile from the ranger station (Toll Booth)

[tower]

LVJ,

I had no idea you were so accomplished. Also, for some reason I thought you were very young. Must be your spirit.

Peace.

[PARAGON]

I guess the tide was out and they were out playing in the wet sand.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by Linda:
ok..... Im like really getting upset about this whole thing, and the way it was handled after reading these posts!

I was a dear freind of Adam (the driver of the hummer) and I have been doing so much research on the internet about the whole happenings of that night, when I stumbled upon this site. Very interesting, yet very very disturbing. Without a doubt they BOTH should be alive today if it werent for poor communication along with what appears to be a lot of poor dessions that night. Such as calling of the search the night that they could have been saved.

This is the first I have heard about a second 911 call, does anyone have any further info on that? Last I heard the 911 clearly could heard from the Onstar people that there was a girl in great distress.... to me that would be enough to have a bit more extensive search. Then another site I was on said that bassed on the cords that they gave, they certainly could have at least been in the general vasinity IF they had read them right!!

Sorry, dont mean to rant, but this was my freind!! And it makes me sick to think of him freezing to death out there while Jen went walking to get help and this whole thing could have very possibly ended on a much better note.

I know that Adam did feel fearless in his hummer, and apparently he was doing some pretty wild driving.

Soooo, so sad

-Linda

Linda, maybe you misunderstood or I have misunderstood. I don't think there was ever any mention of a second 911 call. I made the point that after the initial search turned up nothing, a simple call to Onstar to verify the location and/or signal from the truck should have taken place. But since the coordinates were never passed on to the Rangers from the 911 operator, even though Onstar gave the 911 operator the coordinates, I am sure this never crossed anyone's mind.

Also, I haven't read an article stating that the female passenger actually talked to the Onstar people. Here is a quote from OnStar Vice President of Communications Terry Sullivan taken from one of the newspaper articles on it:

“We did receive the emergency key press but were never able to make verbal contact with the caller,” he said. “We could hear a woman in distress on the tape but it was unintelligible. We could hear screams but it was garbled.”

To be frank, without any knowledge except for what's been in print, it appears that, from the initial button call to Onstar to calling off the search, this was not given much priority and was an emergency systems failure from beginning to end. There was no sense of emergency from the 911 operators because they called off the sheriff's office and did not pass the coordinates along, there was obviously no sense of emergency to the rangers since they stopped to help get someone unstuck, Onstar keeps pointing to the fact that there was no airbag notification (sounding more like an excuse), and the Rangers' representative said they "looked" in all the places permitted for vehicles (sounds like another excuse).

All of this is just reading between the lines of what happened per the news reports. The fact that the coordinates were not used to begin with and then no one every followed up with Onstar to try to verify the vehicle's location is just lost on me.

[HUMMERDOGG]

Gas prices are soaring because we don't have enough refining capacity and the capacity that we do have is 30 year old technology...

[Marcmedic]

You bet your ass I'd be canned if I pulled anything like that. What they did went way past negligence, and there is no way you can say otherwise. They were lazy, plain and simple. Just becuase Adam was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, and possibly being careless does not free emergency responders from performing their duties. Maybe the next time a drunk plows into a loaded minivan I'll just leave him there since he was stupid...I think not. The Park Rangers ****ed up, plain and simple, and in the end they'll pay the price with their jobs and a lawsuit. When you call off a search and the people die of exposure because you were lazy...you pay.

[Linda]

Thank you for your sympathy. Its been really hard, not only to loss someone so young & wonderful, but to know that it may have (should have) been prevented.

In response to Paragon's post: I was referring to second 911, pertaining to your post on 3/17 where u said in the beginning "911 releases second tape".... just wasnt sure what you meant by that.

As for Jenn actually talking to the Onstar people, what I was refering to was the following:
[ Home ] [ Insider ] [ Letters ] [ About Us ] [ Cops & Courts ]




New Details Emerge In Fatal Assateague Crash



Shawn J. Soper, Staff Writer

OCEAN CITY (02/18/2005) - While investigators may never know exactly what happened on the beach at Assateague Island, nearly two weeks when an off-road vehicle overturned and ultimately claimed the lives of its two occupants, new details emerged this week providing a little more insight into the moments after the crash.

On Saturday, Feb. 5, around 9:30 p.m., the OnStar vehicle-equipped emergency services system received a call from a vehicle in distress on Assateague Island. Using the provided latitude and longitude coordinates provided by OnStar, National Parks Service rangers initiated a search of the island, particularly focusing on the area designated for off-road vehicle traffic, but the search proved fruitless.

Early the next day, surfers discovered an overturned Hummer and the body of its driver, Adam Starky, 25, of Cockeysville, near it on the beach in the surf in an area where off-road vehicles are not allowed. A little more than 24 hours later, a state park ranger found the body of Starky’s passenger, Jennifer Holly Ashe, 24, also of Cockeysville, about a half-mile south of the Ocean City Inlet and roughly five miles north of the Hummer accident scene.

The State Medical Examiners Office this week officially determined the cause of Starky’s death to be leg injuries complicated by hypothermia. The official autopsy results for Ashe are still pending as of yesterday.

Because of the terrain and the lack of roads on the island, OnStar used its high tech global positioning system (GPS) to approximate the location of the distressed vehicle and relayed the information to the appropriate emergency response agencies.

“Our folks took the call and because there are no roads there, we provided longitude and latitude coordinates to emergency responders,” said OnStar Vice President of Communications Terry Sullivan.

While the series of events leading up to the accident may never be known, new details emerged this week about the initial call to OnStar.

The OnStar call center, which provides personalized emergency roadside assistance to equipped vehicles 24 hours a day and 365 days a year, receives calls from vehicles in distress in several different ways. For example, a deployed airbag or sensors on the vehicle detecting a moderate or severe collision can automatically transmit an emergency service call to OnStar.

However, in the case of the Hummer accident on Assateague, the call came from a distressed individual and not from a deployed airbag or other source, according to Sullivan.

“We received an emergency button press from an individual in or near the vehicle,” he said. “An air bag deployment did not trigger this one. The call was clearly made from a woman in distress.”
----------------------------------

I did not copy the whole article, but just some so you could see what I was refering to. I dont remember where I read it, but somewhere there is a report that they could clearly hear a woman screamin....... to me that is warrant to continue or at least make the search a bit more serious!!

[PARAGON]

Ok, now I see what you were referring to. I think the article is talking about the 2 different tapes. First tape is from the Onstar button push in the vehicle to the Onstar operator and then Onstar operator contacted 911. The second tape would be the 911 person contacting the Rangers station to initiate the search. So it would be a call in/call out situation at the 911 office and not 2 calls TO 911.