New info on the Front Diffs

[HummBebe]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummBebe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Desert Dan:
HummBebe

I missed the story on how you broke the gears.<span class="ev_code_RED">It's a long one, I went up at a crawl, a set of difficult stairsteps. I crawled up the first and the second no problem, when I tried to get the rear wheels up the third the front ring gear went "Bzzzzzzz" Yes I was in 4 Lo, yes I was locked, yes, I was in first, and yes, I was BTM'ing.</span>

Do you have an auto or 5-speed and do you have 35" tires? <span class="ev_code_RED">Lux / Adventure w/ Auto</span>

KetKat is right about the 4.88's having smaller (more) teeth on the gears. Also with lower gears in the diff and bigger tires the cv joint might start to blow?? <span class="ev_code_RED">Understood, but doesn't the higher ratio give you more low-end torque while crawling???</span>

Also if you change out the front you have to do the rear (not under waranty) too.<span class="ev_code_RED">Correct, whatever you do to the front gear, you have to do to the rear gear as well</span>

Let's just say for arguments sake, the problem is not the ratio, but the material. Why wouldn't I want to go to 4:88's? I think I am going to anyway. Not an expensive upgrade....so what the heck?

And besides, slower is better </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What ratio is in there now? I'm sure I could look it up, but I don't remember off the top of my head. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Adventure has 4:56's

[HummBebe]

Originally posted by Desert Dan:
HummBebe

I missed the story on how you broke the gears.<span class="ev_code_RED">It's a long one, I went up at a crawl, a set of difficult stairsteps. I crawled up the first and the second no problem, when I tried to get the rear wheels up the third the front ring gear went "Bzzzzzzz" Yes I was in 4 Lo, yes I was locked, yes, I was in first, and yes, I was BTM'ing.</span>

Do you have an auto or 5-speed and do you have 35" tires? <span class="ev_code_RED">Lux / Adventure w/ Auto</span>

KetKat is right about the 4.88's having smaller (more) teeth on the gears. Also with lower gears in the diff and bigger tires the cv joint might start to blow?? <span class="ev_code_RED">Understood, but doesn't the higher ratio give you more low-end torque while crawling???</span>

Also if you change out the front you have to do the rear (not under waranty) too.<span class="ev_code_RED">Correct, whatever you do to the front gear, you have to do to the rear gear as well</span>

Let's just say for arguments sake, the problem is not the ratio, but the material. Why wouldn't I want to go to 4:88's? I think I am going to anyway. Not an expensive upgrade....so what the heck?

And besides, slower is better

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
It's looking like this is not systemic problem. Already, it appears that some ring gears can possibly make it through the system into the front of the trucks without proper hardening for the harder type wheeling that Golden Spike requires.

I don't know.....that seems like too great a coincidence that both trucks would have the same metallurgic problem, both would experience the same effect on the exact same obstacle, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I really, really don't like coincidences and I agree. But there might be a relationship to the two trucks through the front ring/pinions because their build dates are fairly close together.

Not knowing the entire process at the gear manufacturer, it's really hard to speculate further. But they are very into this potential problem and if it was systemic then more than the handful that have shown up would likely have occured.

I have to also question why Golden Stairs. I wonder if the front diffs heated up from the hard wheeling up to the stairs and that changed it's properties some. Undoubtedly, some of the other days would have stressed the diff as much as the stairs did at that time.

[ChasH3]

But you are right Bebe... I just hope I have the same group of people around to support me like you did if I ever do break down....

[hmrlvr]

loaner white 3 with a little bling

LMAO
come home soon

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by HummBebe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Desert Dan:
HummBebe

I missed the story on how you broke the gears.<span class="ev_code_RED">It's a long one, I went up at a crawl, a set of difficult stairsteps. I crawled up the first and the second no problem, when I tried to get the rear wheels up the third the front ring gear went "Bzzzzzzz" Yes I was in 4 Lo, yes I was locked, yes, I was in first, and yes, I was BTM'ing.</span>

Do you have an auto or 5-speed and do you have 35" tires? <span class="ev_code_RED">Lux / Adventure w/ Auto</span>

KetKat is right about the 4.88's having smaller (more) teeth on the gears. Also with lower gears in the diff and bigger tires the cv joint might start to blow?? <span class="ev_code_RED">Understood, but doesn't the higher ratio give you more low-end torque while crawling???</span>

Also if you change out the front you have to do the rear (not under waranty) too.<span class="ev_code_RED">Correct, whatever you do to the front gear, you have to do to the rear gear as well</span>

Let's just say for arguments sake, the problem is not the ratio, but the material. Why wouldn't I want to go to 4:88's? I think I am going to anyway. Not an expensive upgrade....so what the heck?

And besides, slower is better </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What ratio is in there now? I'm sure I could look it up, but I don't remember off the top of my head.

[PARAGON]

I'm not so sure I agree, Phil. If it spun the teeth off the ring gear while stationary, it means there was enough torque flowing through to the pinion to do the job but the ring was not able to handle the torque and make the tires break free and spin over. (this according to what everyone said happened)

A truck "should" have enough strength to break the tires loose if the truck is immovable without breaking something in the drivetrain as long as it's not a jerk on the drivetrain, ie dumping a clutch. Static load vs. dynamic load.

Now, I have no idea if going to a lower gear ratio would solve this if the gear itself is too weak to handle the load.

I'm not real sure about this one.

[f5fstop]

Tire front drive shafts are a beotch to remove, but can be removed from the
vehicle while in the desert.
Disconnect the ABS sensor under the hood, and at the upper control arm
remove the wire from the clip (prevents breaking the wire).
Remove the front axle bolt.
Remove the tie bar from knuckle.

Remove the upper control arm bolt from the knuckle.


Flex the knuckle back and down and you can just remove the shaft from the
hub.
However, installing it back into place is just pure joy. It will take two
people, one to flex the knuckle/hub assembly and one to squeeze the shaft
into the knuckle hub after shaft is in the diff.
I would say it would be just as fast to remove the lower control arm to
knuckle bolt and pull the knuckle out of the way and it might save some
time.


Besides the required wrenches/sockets, etc., you will need one long pry
bar, plenty of beer

Now, let me throw this out. If the front diff is damaged, why not remove the front prop shaft, (eight bolts; four front/four rear), and drive and some good strong duct tape. Worse that could happen is the ring gear is shaved completely, or the vehicle will not move. I mean, drive at a very slow speed. Prop shaft would have to be removed to prevent damage to the T/case, but who would care about more damage to the diff. Yes, an axle might get damaged, but I’m not sure if I would not take the chance.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
The H2 did not bend 3 tie rods on Golden Stairs. It was on the entire trip that day, that at best is a 9 hour trail day of hard wheeling. Golden Stairs is just one short obstacle where the 2 H3s spun the ring gears.

Huge difference.

And....per Rox's recent posts in the Moab picture thread it looks like there is something else going with her entire steering configuration. That might have caused the fluke of 3 tie rods busting on the same trail.

[NEOCON1]

hey phil , bebe and i are wondering if they ment the gears for a yukon or gears from a company called yukon ?

and thanks for the input NoMo maybe we should be looking for a stronger material

thanks guys

still in moab drinkin beers

[HummerNewbie]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
...But there might be a relationship to the two trucks through the front ring/pinions because their build dates are fairly close together...

I agree completely especially since there are now three since HI's has to be replaced. I would really like to see some investigation into this since the three vehicles that I know of with this problem were all purchase right at the same time. Of course any one of them could have been sitting on the lot for a while but I really think this needs to be looked into. Based on VIN numbers I would think it would be fairly easy to check the lot numbers for the gears in each truck. If the lot numbers are all different then that probably counts out a hardening issue but if they are all the same it would narrow down the possible problems in my book.

[HIHUMMER]

Originally posted by Sewie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NEOCON1:
hey f5 , we were in low with rear locked tractin cotrol off message is always shown for me when in 4 low we were BTMing with all four tires on the ground .

If mine broke when I think it did, I was doing the same thing. Only difference was I was on a dirt/gravel ledge, not on slickrock.

BTW, I got my truck last July, around the same time as Bebe and Neo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How many miles do you all have on your trucks? I got mine on August 1st and am at 19000 miles. Seeing a pattern? I haven't been offroad since Tellico...but the noises started after that....hummmm...? How can I check the build date?

[ChasH3]

Bebe my stabilitrac shut off the other day while I was driving on the Freeway.. I even got a message saying it was off and needed service and the indicator light on the 4x4(All wheel drive) button was off... The H3 drove fine. Then after I got off the freeway and was able to turn the H3 off and back on everything worked fine... Weird.....

[Desert Dan]

HummBebe

I missed the story on how you broke the gears.

Do you have an auto or 5-speed and do you have 35" tires?

KetKat is right about the 4.88's having smaller (more) teeth on the gears. Also with lower gears in the diff and bigger tires the cv joint might start to blow??

Also if you change out the front you have to do the rear (not under waranty) too.

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f5fstop:
...my first glance is a hardening problem.

Here is a shot in the dark but how close were the built dates on Neo's and Bebe's rigs? Could it possibly be that there was a problem in the production/hardening of these gears and by dumb luck, they both had gears from this batch? Sorry Bebe and Neo, just looking for a silver lining for the rest of us </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


hey newbie , you may be on to something there , bebe and i both got our trucks early in the production run . not sure of production dates we have both had our trucks since aug. 05

[evldave]

Originally posted by HummBebe:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by evldave:
chances are if you have access to a welder in the field, you've also got access to someone that can pull half-shafts & DS and you can just drive out in 2WD.

I think you'd have just as much luck with bubble gum vs JB weld on ring gears...

I don't think we can do that on the three's, has something to do with the computer thingy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The computer thingy doesn't like bubble gum?

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by Desert Dan:
HummBebe

I missed the story on how you broke the gears.

Do you have an auto or 5-speed and do you have 35" tires?

KetKat is right about the 4.88's having smaller (more) teeth on the gears. Also with lower gears in the diff and bigger tires the cv joint might start to blow??

Also if you change out the front you have to do the rear (not under waranty) too.

hey dan , we were trying to get up a set of steps between waist and chest high a its a pretty gnarly obstacle . we both have auto's , adventures and 35's .

ther are alot of details in the h2 area under 06 moab thread .

still in moab drinkin beers

[NEOCON1]

there are alot of opinions going around . one thing is anyone not with us or not familiar with golden stairs are thinking we were just driving . these steps were vertical and waist to chest high . no one should ever try anything close to this alone . the only trucks we saw were rock buggies and seriously modded jeeps . it is rated the third hardest run in the moab bible this trail has broken 1's 2's an 3's now

loaner white 3 with a little bling

[ChasH3]

All I know if there is a problem I rather have it identified and a recall in place, then wait till I get off road somewhere and get stuck....

[evldave]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummBebe:
I don't think we can do that on the three's, has something to do with the computer thingy.

Bet you can, even if you have to start pulling fuses until it works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Start with the traction control & Stabilitrac and go from there? I've never had electronic anything on my Cherokee or Suburban, but I'd hope you could fool the computer at least enough for 2WD...