Stock 4x4 comparison

that too. ! ?

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by Steve - SanJose

that too. ! ?

yes

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

... is the ranking basically in the ballpark?

Well, the superior position you have assigned to all of the Rubis over the H2 seems to conflict with my recollection of OldHiker:
1- lining up behind the Rubi on the Blue-3 rated trail at Paragon this April (it had been hopelessly stuck there for three hours);
2-- winching it out from behind over several obstacles it could not get over on its own (even with it's front and rear lockers); and then
3- driving right over the same obstacles with no problem.

[DennisAJC]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

Well, the superior position you have assigned to all of the Rubis over the H2 seems to conflict with my recollection of OldHiker:
1- lining up behind the Rubi on the Blue-3 rated trail at Paragon this April (it had been hopelessly stuck there for three hours);
2-- winching it out from behind over several obstacles it could not get over on its own (even with it's front and rear lockers); and then
3- driving right over the same obstacles with no problem.

And nobody with a video camera?

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

is any specific category weighted over the other. Does categories cross, as in, does a category, such as traction control cross on another vehicle when it is called or labeled something else, etc. etc on an on until your little spreadsheet looks like a 2 year old's dirty diaper.

At this point, I haven't weighted any category over another within a profile. But not every feature is in every profile. "Rock Crawling" ignores gas mileage. "People Mover" ignores low range".

Since everyone has a different name and feature set for their traction systems, I ignored the trademark name and divided the functionality into feature sets. So if a vehicle has a system to control understeer or oversteer, I gave it credit for "stability control". A system that brakes one wheel to send power to the other side over an open diff got credit for "traction control". I did the same for hill-start assist and downhill assist.

[HummBebe]

You should add a Driver ability column.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by sfox

First off, what in the hell does fuel economy have to do with off-road performance?

Absolutely nothing. Fuel economy is not in the Rock Crawling profile. It's part of Road Trips and People Mover.

Originally Posted by sfox

Secondly, I think you are missing a whole lot of information in your "equations". Off-roading is generally about a situation, not every vehicle is going to perform well in every situation. I have seen bits of trail that a Hummer simply couldn't get on because it was too tight a squeeze between two huge rocks, I have also seen hills that the length and width of a Hummer made a huge difference. Can you seriously say that a a Jeep Liberty is more capable than an H2??

My software will eventually let you specify the strengths you want offroad, like hill climbing and boulder-hopping, but it's not there yet. Creating profiles is my first attempt at comparing vehicles by situation. When I designed Rock Crawling, it contained factors that favor small vehicles like tight turns (which is something I may change). I absolutely did not mean that the Liberty is better than the H1 in all respects. If there's enough room for it, the H1 would always kick its ass.

Originally Posted by sfox

Seriously, you need to learn more about off-roading before writing these assumptions.

I'm making no assumptions about which vehicle is better. But I know many of my initial criteria are off. I just want to validate and improve my early results. Thank you all for your feedback.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

You should add a Driver ability column.

No kidding ... between wheel placement and finesse, a good driver can make all the difference.

[usetosellhummer]

What the hell you do all day man, sheet cut and paste some charts?
too much .... too much

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by PhilD

The more I look at the chart, the more I just have to say how much total BS it is.

The #1 limiting factor when rock crawling for factory vehicles is ground clearance. Yet the FJ Cruiser does better on rocks with a manual tranny than it is does with an auto, based on crawl ratio I guess. What good does crawl ratio do if you are high centered.

For rock crawling you also have to give extra credit for SFA vehicles as it does help. Where you got the RTI figures for all these vehicles is beyond me, but you can't produce any vaguely meaningful results without it.

What you chose as an optimum wheelbase for rock crawling would obviously also be somewhat subjective.

I've never seen a vehicle not make an obstacle due to crawl ratio, so if you are just looking at numbers, it becomes almost irrelevant. For stock vehicles torque becomes kind of irrelevant to an extent too.

A lot of the time it will simply come down to approach/departure/breakover angles, clearance and articulation/flex.

Now I feel dumb, wasting my time replying to a waste of time chart

dummy

[31_bandits]

Well, just two pennies from an unimportant guy, and if into obloquy i am to be driven for saying this, then so be it. I mean nobody offense.

But what has this post harmed? If somebody wants to spend their time dreaming of 4wds in what ways they can, it certainly won't cause me to lose much sleep, even if my truck got rated lower than i think it deserves. At times it seems that anything even involving hummers or offroading has to eventually wind up drenched in negativity. bling -vs- no bling, the mileage thing, and whatever else. If i have contributed to that at times, apologies, and i shall submit to a flogging on white knuckle hill. That is if any of the hummer gangs let my jeep come along with my H2, which seems to be a bit of an impasse.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by 31_bandits

Well, just two pennies from an unimportant guy, and if into obloquy i am to be driven for saying this, then so be it. I mean nobody offense.

But what has this post harmed? If somebody wants to spend their time dreaming of 4wds in what ways they can, it certainly won't cause me to lose much sleep, even if my truck got rated lower than i think it deserves. At times it seems that anything even involving hummers or offroading has to eventually wind up drenched in negativity. bling -vs- no bling, the mileage thing, and whatever else. If i have contributed to that at times, apologies, and i shall submit to a flogging on white knuckle hill. That is if any of the hummer gangs let my jeep come along with my H2, which seems to be a bit of an impasse.

Then what's the point.

If you post something and just want to have "yes" people post just for the helluvit..... tis not the place. If someone wants to waste their time on something as futile as this was, so-be-it. Post it in a forum such as this and expect to be ridiculed for it. Such is life. And such as life should be.

[31_bandits]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Then what's the point.

If you post something and just want to have "yes" people post just for the helluvit..... tis not the place. If someone wants to waste their time on something as futile as this was, so-be-it. Post it in a forum such as this and expect to be ridiculed for it. Such is life. And such as life should be.

fair enough.

to offer a view from the other side of the park, is there some passage of manliness in hummer foruming that bans constructive criticism?

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by 31_bandits

fair enough.

to offer a view from the other side of the park, is there some passage of manliness in hummer foruming that bans constructive criticism?

nothing that bans it, such as how I was able to get away with my constructive criticism of your post

It's just all in fun. Some things are taken way too seriously.

[PARAGON]

There is this ONE thing you can do to get by here........

post pics of your wife's bewbies

sorry, old forum joke

[31_bandits]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

There is this ONE thing you can do to get by here........

post pics of your wife's bewbies

sorry, old forum joke

i'm not sure what effect that would have...

My basic take on things is mostly live and let live, and as a general rule that doesn't seem to shorten life spans.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by 31_bandits

i'm not sure what effect that would have...

My basic take on things is mostly live and let live, and as a general rule that doesn't seem to shorten life spans.

mine is when something enters your field of vision, fire upon it until no more movement is detected

or something like what you said.