Is the LR3 a Serious Off-Road Competitor?

[Aubs]

Aren't I nice, compiling all of this LR3 information?

Here are some vids. The water fording is actually pretty cool.

http://www.uae4x4.com/vids/lr3.htm

[DRTYFN]

Originally Posted by Mooncricket

...

Fine. Here's your favorite kind of fetish pr0n.
***EXTREMELY NWS***
http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/s...232#post256232

[drmiles]

I backed into one in the parking lot. 3,000 dollars damage took out the bumper, reartail light and quater panel. Hummer suffered a 1 inch scratch in the black bumper cover!!!

Originally Posted by Aubs

Granted, I do some research and give up, I just wanted to know if the LR3 would hold ground against an H2 or H3. It's got similar ground clearance, though poor approach and departure angles. There doesn't seem to be as much room for articulation in the wheel wells either. Just was curious to know what everyone thinks.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by Aubs

Finally, LR says there is 10 inches front and 13 inches rear wheel travel. Is this a lot? I can't find the specs on the H3's travel. The DAKAR version has 20, but that doesn't even look like an H3 anymore..

Yeah, that's a lot ... leads the pack. By comparison:

2006 H1 Alpha - 9" fr, 9" rear
2006 H2 - 8.7" fr, 10.8 rear
2005 Grd Cherokee - 8.9" fr, 8.8" rear
2007 FJ Cruiser - 7.9" fr, 9.1" rear
2006 Liberty - 8" fr, 8" rear
2000 4runner - 7.9" fr, 6" rear
2005 Xterra - 7" fr, 10" rear
1995 Samurai - 5" fr, 6" rear

[Aubs]

So I went and drove the LR3 today. And it was a good driver, but nothing really exciting. It was way overpriced, and like two models on the lot of 30 had a rear locker. So essentially, unless I wanted the $60,000 model, I couldn't get a locker.

They claimed the LR3 would kill the H3 and H2, but I think that it's a bunch of hooey. It certainly can do a very impressive side slope (we did a 35 degree at the dealership), and the independent suspension works like a solid rear axle in that the air is transferred from one side to another so you get a similar effect.

However, impressive as the specs might be, the underbody is NOT armored in the least, and LR makes no factory parts to solve this problem. The exhaust is also in a position where you would probably pinch it shut as it is the lowest point on the vehicle for the most part.

The transfer case is tucked up inside the frame which I thought was nice. But I wouldn't get this vehicle. I think a Hummer would just beat it out any day. It's got to be modified with sliders and plates for one thing, and it's hard to even find the rear locker on one. It probably wouldn't climb a wall, and the bumper in the back sticks out way too far. As the salesman said to me (and this was probably a deal breaker in itself), "Well, at least it's not some cheap pickup truck that's been made heavier and called a Hummer." He continually pointed out how the H2 and H3 suck balls, and I was kinda pissed.Um, the tow hooks are hidden under plastic parts which you can easily remove, but I thought that was silly. Um, I don't want to write anymore. In the end, maybe the LR3 could keep up with a Hummer, but I think it would probably not be able to follow in the same path and survive for long.

[Michael1]

I've been doing a lot of shopping lately, and comparing features on true off-road vehicles. While the LR3 looks too pretty to be a formidable off-road vehicle, every test and report from the field has proven otherwise. Apparentley, Land Rover does know what they are doing with traction control and suspension systems. The words "unstoppable" are used over and over, which is pretty amazing considering it rides on 30" street tires. They also know how to build an SUV with a usable interior, meaning all the seats fold flat, and you've got a flat load space that's 6 feet long. You could easily sleep in this thing. They also have a tailgate so you can put even longer items in.

The underbody is very flat, with no protrusions to catch rocks. As was mentioned, the armour is limited. All the major pieces such as fuel tank, and transfer case are covered, but it is not the full cage available for the H3. LR does sell rock rails, and a HD front skid plate through their accessories catalog. The snorkel is not water tight, but prevents water from splashing into the engine intake while fording up to 27".

The air suspension is amazing. It lifts the truck 2" when you set the conditions control to one of the off-road settings. There are settings for mud, sand, ruts, and rocks. It adjusts the suspension height, locks the center and rear differentials, and adjusts the traction control and throttle. Now here is the amazing part. If the truck electronics detect that you are high sided. It will lift the truck another 1.5 inches so you can get free. If that isn't enough to get you free, you can manually adjust it up another 1.5 inches for a total of 3 inches! That's above the normal off-road ground clearance of 9.45 inches.

Even though it has independent front and rear suspension, LR cross links them so it becomes an "anti-roll bar". Motor Trend measured the RTI at 518, which is almost the same as the H3 they measured at 521. So much for requiring solid axles to get good RTI.

You don't need to spend $60K for a rear locker version either. It's a $625 option on all models including the V6 version which retails for $39K.

So where does the LR3 fall down compared to the H3? The crawl ratio for the LR3 is 45.6, compared to the H3's 68.9 with the manual transmission. Oh, and there is no manual transmission available (big minus for me!). The V6LR3 has about the same acceleration performance as the H3, but requires premium gas, and gets 2 miles per gallon poorer fuel economy. Also the seat adjusters are not as complete as the luxury version of the H3, and they eliminated the lumbar adjustment on the LR3 in 2006 for some strange reason with a side air bag redesign. I was able to get more comfortable in the H3, although the LR3 on-road ride is better and it is slightly quieter. With the factory accessories, the H3 is certainly better armored. The H3 is a better value, too, being about $8K less expensive for a comparable vehicle.

While there is a lot to like about the LR3 (nice things GM could copy), I would say if you are off-road, and had to get home again, I'd be in the H3.

Michael

[Aubs]

Originally Posted by Michael1

You don't need to spend $60K for a rear locker version either. It's a $625 option on all models including the V6 version which retails for $39K.

So where does the LR3 fall down compared to the H3? The crawl ratio for the LR3 is 45.6, compared to the H3's 68.9 with the manual transmission. Oh, and there is no manual transmission available (big minus for me!). The V6LR3 has about the same acceleration performance as the H3, but requires premium gas, and gets 2 miles per gallon poorer fuel economy. Also the seat adjusters are not as complete as the luxury version of the H3, and they eliminated the lumbar adjustment on the LR3 in 2006 for some strange reason with a side air bag redesign. I was able to get more comfortable in the H3, although the LR3 on-road ride is better and it is slightly quieter. With the factory accessories, the H3 is certainly better armored. The H3 is a better value, too, being about $8K less expensive for a comparable vehicle.

While there is a lot to like about the LR3 (nice things GM could copy), I would say if you are off-road, and had to get home again, I'd be in the H3.

Michael

I found that I couldn't find anything in stock that had the rear locker that wasn't an SE or HSE, so that's why the high price. Theoretically, it's cheap enough, but it's not really on the base models. They just do not order/build these cars for people looking to beat them up. I mean, the catalog is essentially worthless, and the H3 catalog makes the LR3 catalog look like just pretty eye candy. I think that the LR3 could do alright, but there's no way I'd buy one to find out. I haven't seen enough evidence that makes me believe it will be what I'd like, especially for the price.

I still think the exhaust is way too exposed, and there are these little metal fins on the rear suspension to hide the exhaust, perfect for getting hung up on.

Additionally, I think the H3 is a much, much better value. You can get one, loaded with Nav, brushguards, upgraded armor, off-road lights, roof crossbows, and whatever else you might want for less than most LR3's. That's kind of biased I guess, because with the LR3 you get better acceleration, cornering, safety, room, etc. but as a pure off-roader that's acceptable on-road, the H3 is definately the better choice. On-road, the LR3 is a much better performer. I threw this one I drove into a hard corner, and could feel the cornering brake system come on and stop it from rolling. It was pretty cool. Not sure I'd do that in the H3.

I do like the folding flat seats, and the third row WILL ACTUALLY ACCOMODATE TWO ADULT HUMANS, who can sit normally, with legroom and cupholders. That is awesome in my opinion. And LR makes a lot better use of the size. The LR3 is near the size of my H2, but has drastically better storage, visibility, and versatility. The Nav system is fun because it shows you the position of the front tires, which I can see being helpful off-road. I'm always hanging out trying to figure out how they're turned.

I wish they would have let me borrow it this weekend, I could have taken it out and really driven it properly. LR is not concerned with selling this to people like us, so they really don't demonstrate the abilities too well. The test track is a sideslope and some cobbles. I still have mixed thoughts on this thing. I don't think I'd be happy with it in all honesty. It's maybe more practical than the H3, but off-road I might be taking the bypass.

As far as the armor, I couldn't find any skid plates in the US catalog, and there are sliders, but they're not for off-roading. They're about 3 inches in diameter, and they come in black or CHROME, and would probably do nothing to protect your sills. The chrome says it all.

[Aubs]

Also, the guy at the dealership claimed the LR3 could do all of the hardcore stuff in Moab (and actually did), but I think that's like saying Bigfoot exists. There are more pictures and evidence to prove Bigfoot's existence than the LR3 surviving Moab.

He told me that the LR3 could also do Spring Creek, "but would sustain damage."

[CslRkH2]

Originally Posted by Aubs

Also, the guy at the dealership claimed the LR3 could do all of the hardcore stuff in Moab (and actually did), but I think that's like saying Bigfoot exists. There are more pictures and evidence to prove Bigfoot's existence than the LR3 surviving Moab.

He told me that the LR3 could also do Spring Creek, "but would sustain damage."

One of the off road mags had a review and pics of a completely stock S/C RANGE rover going up Wipe Out Hill in Moab. They said it didn't slip a tire on the way up. Granted wheeling in Moab is easy compared to places like Colorado but I would have faith in their TCS and off road ability.

I would never buy one though due to their consistent poor reliability.

[Michael1]

Originally Posted by Aubs

I still think the exhaust is way too exposed, and there are these little metal fins on the rear suspension to hide the exhaust, perfect for getting hung up on.

I believe those are heat shields to protect the spare tire. They are pretty far up there, but I suppose they could get hung up.

Originally Posted by Aubs

I wish they would have let me borrow it this weekend, I could have taken it out and really driven it properly. LR is not concerned with selling this to people like us, so they really don't demonstrate the abilities too well.

And the Hummer dealer let you take out an H3 for the weekend? Go on one of the LR Adventure days, just like I did with the Hummer dealer today. By the way, the H3 is fantastic off-road.

Originally Posted by Aubs

As far as the armor, I couldn't find any skid plates in the US catalog, and there are sliders, but they're not for off-roading. They're about 3 inches in diameter, and they come in black or CHROME, and would probably do nothing to protect your sills. The chrome says it all.

I think you may have been looking at the step bars. The sliders are absolutely for off-roading. Side Protection Tubes P/N VTD500010.
They have both, just like Hummer.

Good luck with your decision.

Michael

[blindzebra]

I'm sorry but did anyone see OJ run by in the suspension flex video??? I lost it when he ran by!

[31_bandits]

somewhat related:

i'm no expert in off-roading. Thusly disclaimed, some simple physics can be applied to estimate/guesstimate some things.

like a 35 deg side slope... i think the H2 is rated by hummer for 20-something, not nearly as impressive as the LR3's spec. But the reality is that side-slope-capability would boil down to

1. weight of vehicle
2. width of vehicle
3. heigh of center of gravity
4. traction of the tires going sideways
and maybe how much pressure it takes to pull a tire off a rim in some wildly extreme case.

2. and 3. are going to define when the vehicle will start to tip, and 1 and 4 are going to define when it would start to slide. When the weight times some tangent or sine of the angle exceeds traction, you slide. When the center of gravity moves outside of the lower wheel, you tip.

no mystical property (as far as i can figure this evening) can overcome those basic things.

as for car-magazine review of offroading capability... yawn.

same for jeep magazine reviews, where hummer bias will usually dominate the review, or at least often dominate the review. I remember once an article "set out to prove" that the H1 was far worse than a stock wrangler w/o lockers, and the article had about 15,085 comments about the cost of the H1, and basically seemed wildly price-jaded.

They may or may not have included an actual comment on offroading among the cost-insults/panic, i can't remember. so...

yawn. lol

[31_bandits]

another thing to consider when weighing H3 -vs- LR3 is that land rover has a remarkably consistently bad reliability record.

That's too bad because i like the looks of the 'rovers, and the 'rover guys seem to be pretty smooth. FWIW, a 'rover salesman that i talked to didn't knock the H2, and didn't claim that the Range could keep up with it, though he stopped short of calling the H2 better. He just mentioned other things, like refinement and all.

[Aubs]

Originally Posted by 31_bandits

another thing to consider when weighing H3 -vs- LR3 is that land rover has a remarkably consistently bad reliability record.

That's too bad because i like the looks of the 'rovers, and the 'rover guys seem to be pretty smooth. FWIW, a 'rover salesman that i talked to didn't knock the H2, and didn't claim that the Range could keep up with it, though he stopped short of calling the H2 better. He just mentioned other things, like refinement and all.

Yes, LR has a horrible reliability record. Most British cars do. And the LR3 is still riddled with problems. The salesman claimed they were 'computer issues' and that a hardware upgrade was due out. I have a feeling the air suspension is probably also an issue.

He called the LR3 "A gentleman's SUV, a different way of travelling off the highway. We do not like to bounce and gun it. We prefer to remain composed."

The thing was pretty boring though. It just didn't give me a hard-on when I sat inside, unlike NoMoGMPG's H1.

[LR3_OWNER]

The crawl ratio is a good metric for determining how much control you'll have going over rocks and such, but lost here is the fact that the LR3 also has Hill Descent Control (HDC). While the HDC pretty much sucks on ice/snow, on rocks it is amazing. Coupled with the independent suspension, it provides even more slow-speed control over rocks and really does feel like the vehicle is carefully walking down a rocky slope. It affords ridiculous control of the vehicle.

The H3 is quite capable....more so in my opinion, than the (big for the sake of being big) H2. However, the LR3 could easily keep up with the H3, and do so with style. That is the difference....

For what it's worth, I think the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon would beat BOTH vehicles for pure off-road duty.

[ZigsRig]

Holy Old Post Batman....

[RazM]

Originally Posted by LR3_OWNER

The crawl ratio is a good metric for determining how much control you'll have going over rocks and such, but lost here is the fact that the LR3 also has Hill Descent Control (HDC). While the HDC pretty much sucks on ice/snow, on rocks it is amazing. Coupled with the independent suspension, it provides even more slow-speed control over rocks and really does feel like the vehicle is carefully walking down a rocky slope. It affords ridiculous control of the vehicle.

The H3 is quite capable....more so in my opinion, than the (big for the sake of being big) H2. However, the LR3 could easily keep up with the H3, and do so with style. That is the difference....

For what it's worth, I think the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon would beat BOTH vehicles for pure off-road duty.

I like what Four Wheeler recently said, that the H3 can do 95% of what a Rubicon can, but in comfort and style (and in the case of the Alpha, more on-road power)

The LR3 simply would not be able to follow an H3 through many obstacles, Put 35's on an H3 (with no lift required to do so, I might add) and the LR3 just doesn't compare.

[dochummer]

I own an LR3 and an H2. The LR3 can't keep up even with A/T tires.

[LR3_OWNER]

Actually...just look at the two rigs (H2 and LR3). The fact that we are even having this conversation is an indictment of the H2. Look at it! Why should the LR3 be able to keep up with that beast? The H2 is big just to be big. Look at the measures of capability; gear ratios, wheel travel, ground clearance, power-to-weight. The LR3 is right there with the H2; and I don't believe for a second that the LR3 cannot "keep up" with anyone's H2, EXCEPT in the case where approach/departure angle becomes an issue.

...of course with 35s on an H3 that brings size and clearance issues into play. Likewise with an H2. Physical stature aside, I won't buy that the LR3 can't compete with the H2's traction and handling off-road. There is no reason for me to believe that based on what's on-board.

I like the H3. I actually think it's far superior to the H2. I didn't know it had a 4:1 low-range; that's impressive, like the Rubi. No front lockers though, right?

[RuggedH2]

Originally Posted by LR3_OWNER

I like the H3. I actually think it's far superior to the H2.

This statement alone proves that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Far superior how?

I have both, and would like to hear your answer in spite of the fact that just about everything else you've stated here was stupid.

If you're going to resurrect ancient threads, at least say something intelligent.