Coolant Loss !!!!

[PARAGON]

Ok, stupid question above. For some reason I was thinking of the outside of the plug and couldn't fathom that heat transfer through the plug could cause cracking of the insulator. Wasn't thinking.

[PARAGON]

At this point how much trouble and cost would it be to pull the intake and check around the valves on #2.

I wonder what the incidence rate is for the insulator to crack and come off of the spark plug. If it is rather low, it is awfully coincidental and Don's idea is the most plausible. Pull the intake and the head on that side and do a visual.

[NoMoGMPG]

Just FYI, if a complaint is documented under warranty and the CCC is "cannot duplicate complaint" or "NTF (no trouble found)" you do have some recourse under GM's Policy and Procedure manual. It is usually on a case by case basis and requires the Area Service Rep to approve any repairs, but it sounds like you have good documentation to back a claim up should anything happen. Just don't let it go too long.

Dave

[NJ H2]

If you have a problem while under warrenty and now the same problem I would insist on GM footing the bill or at least 1/2 the bill.

I purchased a new Corvette in 1998. At 6000 miles my Check Engine light came on. Brought it back to the dealer and they added some fluid. 2 days later the light came back on!
Brought it back and they said I might have a leak and to bring it back if the light came back on!!
I was pissed and brought it to another dealer who figured out (within 1 hour) I had a cracked block!! The claimed the engine must have been dropped at the factory and they were going to have a new engine sent directly from the factory line all complete including spark plug wires etc.
They replaced it and the cost was around $8,000. on GM.
I was pissed it needed to happen and wanted to talk to the GM Corvette Rep. I left 5 messages with NO return call so I went on line and found
www.lemonlaw.com at 1-800-lemon-law
I had no idea if they could do anything but within 1 month GM offered me $8,000. to keep the car.
I kept it and had no further problems

[joe k]

Dave, There has been a case working on this with the GM customer service folks on this for quite some time (5-6 months). The best proposal that they have come up with is a “customer loyalty” certificate for $2500.00 (to the purchase of a new GM vehicle). A few things about this:
1) Not the best was to handle the situation, AVP would rather try to offer financial settlement rather that expend the necessary time and effort to explore / resolve /repair problem.
2) What the hell will $2500 dollars do for the replacement of the H2? Running boards, curb feelers?
3) Asked if the $2500 dollars could be spent compensating either the dealership or a 3rd party mechanic to explore the problem -> answer NO
4) Asked if the $2500 dollars could be applied to the purchase of a new engine ->answer- NO (I do believe that it would be a GM product)
5) Have demanded to speak with or have a meeting with the AVP for several months- GM will not respond
The bottom line here is that these folks are operating under the laws of averages, and do NOT have a sincere vested interest in bringing any extraordinary problems to resolution.
They utilize stall tactics and smokescreens in order to blow folks off. The best course of action that these folks can offer is to keep driving it until something craters. If we were speaking about an aircraft engine people would think one was out of their mind for pursuing this type of action. This is a completely apathetic approach to the situation. I do believe that the GM Hummer mechanics DO know how to repair this type of problem, they just will not because this is something that should have been completely resolved during the warranty period. I am ready to fix this problem, I have a problem with “ driving it until something craters”. Paragon – the plug in the picture – the customer service rep at the dealership told me that the poor engine performance was caused by a fuel delivery issue – ie required a fuel system cleaning treatment – I told him to pull the plug first. After that he stated that something else might be causing the problem.
Once again folks, thank you for all of the suggestions, you guys have some damn good talent within the pool of contributors in this forum. Waiting to get a price back from a shop to look at the intake. We might just replace it as long as it is apart. May fix the problem and give me a nice paperweight for my desk.

[PARAGON]

This might be an over-simplistic idea but, who knows, if it works it would be a cheap fix. Have you tried any of the stop leak junk you put in your radiator? Might be worth a try as well as a much cheaper solution.

[joe k]

No. I know it might curb the symptoms but it will not fix the problem

[LasVegas]

Joe...you're being too nice at this point. It's time to take the gloves off. If this problem started during the warranty period and you have that documented you have a very strong case. It's time to pursue legal/government agency options. If it were me, I would learn all my legal options, then write them a certified letter telling them what you intend to do if they don't respond to the positive. If they don't, then do it.

[tower]

Lawyer up, Cowboy. Recover your costs, get a new truck and get lot's of punitive damages from GM for doing business in bad faith.

[joe k]

Weekend Update: Received a call from the dealership on Friday out of the blue, they said that they wanted to take another look at the truck. Drove it up and they topped off the level, and put it on the rack for inspection. They want it back in about 10 days to look at the consumption once again. I should be able to put around 1000 miles on it during that time to show some additional loss. I am told the when the truck is returned to SA that an area manager will be inspecting it as well and that they will need the truck for several days for additional testing. Think we are starting to head in the right direction with this, ie – getting some action back from GM types. If nothing else I think I might get a 55 gal drum of Dexcool out of this to keep the truck rolling!

[joe k]

Took the rig back to the dealership in SA on Tuesday morning, has been in their hands testing various components since then. Last ditch effort by all parties to make this situation right, but looks like GM is actively involved with this case at this point in time. They expected to have it for at least 4 days, so hopefully I will know something by Friday. Once again, thanks for all of the suggestions offered by the forum on this problem,,, will let all know what they find.

[joe k]

UPDATE: After 4 days at the dealership and 1 day with a hummer technician out of Detroit,,,,,
NO source of the leak could be found. I think that the area rep limited the amount of exploration to pulling the valve covers.
Problem appears to still be around but I am being told that they (GM) will offer a component warranty on the rig up to 100,000 miles, should be plenty of time to allow the problem to manifest itself in a catastrophic manner.
Once again, thanks for all of the well thought out suggestions, I know it took a lot of thought / time from multiple members of this forum. I have not ruled out any more exploration in the future at my expense, just want to forget about this problem for a few weeks.

[PARAGON]

DAMN!! It's like a bad rash. Drive it and keep Onstar paid up.

[phenom01515]

Originally Posted by joe k

UPDATE: After 4 days at the dealership and 1 day with a hummer technician out of Detroit,,,,,
NO source of the leak could be found. I think that the area rep limited the amount of exploration to pulling the valve covers.
Problem appears to still be around but I am being told that they (GM) will offer a component warranty on the rig up to 100,000 miles, should be plenty of time to allow the problem to manifest itself in a catastrophic manner.
Once again, thanks for all of the well thought out suggestions, I know it took a lot of thought / time from multiple members of this forum. I have not ruled out any more exploration in the future at my expense, just want to forget about this problem for a few weeks.

what is a compnent warranty

[Yetti]

well as an Ex GM engine mechanic I have a couple of suggestions. one of the biggest over looked areas for consuption is through the transmission. the trans runs hot enough to boil off most water leaking into it from the radiator trans cooler. it may very well be the starting point for loss. check your trans and make sure the oil isn't murkey. if its not clear and clean its most likely the problem.
also if you suspect its a cracked head or leaking head gasket, remove the spark plugs after driving it while the engine is warm and the radiator has pressure from running. let it sit over night. in the morning use a piece of clear hose and see if you can suck any fluid out of the cylinders that has pooled on top of the pistons. something in the real small range like 1/8 dia hose works well for this. if you find fluid laying in the hole you have your culprit.
the alternative would be you use a endio scope to look in the holes for fluid.

last but not least have you checked your engine oil for coolant? this is an old trick. you climb under the truck and let it sit after loosening the drain plug just a tiny bit, just enough it doesn't seal tight. put a piece of clean white paper in a pan and put it under the truck where it can drip on it from the plug. I have seen it take days to yeild results. but once in a while you get lucky. if the spot on the paper is being made by water or coolant it will have a green or pink ring around the oil spot.

[codeman671]

I have been leakng coolant in a similar way, just found it I need a water pump (at 67k ??? ). I have a GMPP so it only cost me $100.