BRC in Depth

[DennisAJC]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

nope....I can't.

I see a small org out there trying to make a difference.

That's what I see.

Well it won't go far if your bartender is drinking all the booze.

[Greg Mumm]

Originally Posted by KenP

Thanks J.

Greg, thanks for joining and I hope you can clear up the issues we've brought forth as laid out.

What involvement does your organization have in reopening mining roads and timber roads not for personal outdoor enjoyment, but for businesses to make their way back to the cut off/protected lands?

Who's your top Washington lobbyist and who else does that person and their firm represent?

Who are the 20 top individual and corporate donors and what percentage of your total donations come from them as a group (you don't have to individually post each donor with each dollar amount).

Thanks again and I look forward to having you clear up my concerns that people I know may be taken advantage of.

Ken

BTW, I reserve the right to ask more questions, such as why is this info not on your website? Or is it I just can't find it?

I?m not sure what kind of question it is other than preloaded with insinuation but, for the record: Even for recreational purpose, it is a very rare occasion that anyone is able to open up any roads and trails that have gone through a legitimate Administrative process. We are more often in the position of trying to prevent access closures that have no legitimate reasoning. It isn?t our job to open roads for business. We represent recreationalists not business. If we have protected access along some corridor to benefit recreation that at some point also provided access for a business or a landowner for example, that is a byproduct and not the point.

The amount of money we spend on lobbying is also listed on our 990. You have to understand what lobbying means in order to understand what you are trying to get to with this question. If I go to DC or to a state and try to influence some piece of legislation, it is lobbying. If I ask you to send a letter to your congressman/woman/person, it is grassroots lobbying. As a 501 (c)(3) we are governed very strictly as to how much lobbying we can or cannot do. We adhere very strictly to those guidelines. You say in your question ?top Washington lobbyist? as if we have a bunch of lobbyists. We don?t. You can see that from our 990 the amount of money spent isn?t what others would have you believe. We work with a firm DC, Birch, Horton, Bittner & Cherot, P.C., as do others although the extent of who those others are, I couldn?t really say. Mostly they would be multiple-use concerns as that is the realm we operate in.

With regard to the top donors, you are asking the wrong question if you are trying to identify who holds the reins of BRC. The right question is who gives you the most money? The answer to that I have already posted here. It is our collective grassroots contingent which represents 85-90% of our budget less advertising dollars. That is who holds the reins. The remainder comes from various other sources. Thank you for not requesting that I individually post each donor with each dollar amount. As I said in my previous comments, it is not my wish to name names and subject those folks to more attacks. It is important that you note that we are not talking big numbers here. Top 20 donors would include individuals and clubs that have donated $1000-$5000. The majority of our funding comes in the range of $5 to $1000 increments.

Some of this information is on our website. If you don?t find it there it is because we spend our time and media efforts on preserving access and not in some defensive posture trying to prove allegations wrong about who we are and what we do. If we did that, we would never get anything done.

Also, I would add that I don't understand the comment that you think people you know have been taken advantage of? Are you saying you think BRC has taken advantage of people you know? Could you give some instances of that so I can look into them?

Greg

[Greg Mumm]

Originally Posted by KenP

Please tell me that Jack Welch isn't the Jack Welch of GE.

No, our Jack Welch is not the Jack Welch of GE.

Greg

BTW... I find your avitar offensive.

[Greg Mumm]

Originally Posted by DennisAJC

I guess those numbers don't include the numerous lawsuits won by BRC?




$561,815.00 in direct public support. $284,689.00 in membership fees. $232,450.00 in Salaries

That's quite disturbing. Impressive burn rate.



Hey Bebes, out of curiosity, are you on BRC's payroll or do you recieve any financial comphensation?

Yes those numbers do include all of our funding including legal actions.

Impressive burn rate? Disturbing? What is disturbing about that? Our top payed position is only $70k a year. It takes good people to get done what we are getting done on behalf of recreation. And we are getting a great deal done as is obvious from the attacks we keep getting from the other side. We have 7 full-time people, 1 part-time person and 4 contractors along with a host of volunteers across this nation. I would say if you do the math that is not burn rate by any stretch. On the contrary, we are frugal and act in good stewardship with the donor's money. Check out what the other side has in that department.

No Bebes is not counted as one of our paid staff although I am quite familiar with her volunteer efforts to that end...

Greg

[DennisAJC]

Originally Posted by Greg Mumm

BTW... I find your avitar offensive.

I must apologize for Ken. He's hetrosexual.


All these pretty words BRC use like "Non-Profit", ""Volunteers", "Noble Cause" yet a huge percentage to salary.

At least Sierra club is opened book about their agenda.


Why is it that "Good People" at Seirra Club volunteer their services(2.5%),

And the "Good People" at BRC need to be on a fat payroll(22%)?


If you were to adapt the Sierra model, you should be only burning $25,000.00 for salaries. But shouldn't you be? BRC is a non-profit, volunteer organization right?


I have no problems with what you're trying to sell. It's how you're selling it.

[HummBebe]

Originally Posted by Greg Mumm

And we are getting a great deal done as is obvious from the attacks we keep getting from the other side.

"You can measure your level of success by amount of people you've pissed off"

- Bebe

[Greg Mumm]

Originally Posted by DennisAJC

Acceptable and very proportionate for the size of the organization.




Sierra Club = $92 Million Dollars - 2.5% to Administration costs.

BRC = $1 Million Dollars - 22% to Administration costs.


I'm trying to simplify it as best as I can, but can you see what is wrong with this picture?

Actually, yes I can see what is wrong with this picture. But, it is the polar opposite of what you are getting at obviously.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what is wrong with putting as much as possible back out on the ground working for your people? After all, that is why they joined and donated. They want people out there working for them. This is an advocacy organization.

This is also why we are constantly under attack... because we are getting things done. We are putting our folks' money to work and that requires people to do it. We are doing it as efficiently as possible. If I had their budget, you would still see the same percentages if not higher. People out there working is how you get the job done. We are not about being a big business monster. We are about advocating for recreation.

Greg

[HummBebe]

Originally Posted by DennisAJC

I must apologize for Ken. He's hetrosexual.


All these pretty words BRC use like "Non-Profit", ""Volunteers", "Noble Cause" yet a huge percentage to salary.

At least Sierra club is opened book about their agenda.


Why is it that "Good People" at Seirra Club volunteer their services(2.5%),

And the "Good People" at BRC need to be on a fat payroll(22%)?


If you were to adapt the Sierra model, you should be only burning $25,000.00 for salaries. But shouldn't you be? BRC is a non-profit, volunteer organization right?


I have no problems with what you're trying to sell. It's how you're selling it.

He's not selling anything.....that's what YOU do.

This a non-profit

Could you just please have a valid conversation with this man who has taken time out of his day to come here.

[DennisAJC]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

"You can measure your level of success by amount of people you've pissed off"

- Bebe

Again,

Sierra Club has pissed off millions of people.

BRC has pissed off none. 3 or 4 people were just shaking their heads at how poorly it's being run, asking questions.

By how it reads, It seems you and Greg are slightly, if not pissed off, angry and defensive.

That quote does not apply to BRC.

[HummBebe]

[DennisAJC]

[HummBebe]

no....you

for your lack of being able to have a conversation versus doing nothing but making inflammitory accusations.

At least Ken and CP are being civil.

[Greg Mumm]

Originally Posted by DennisAJC

I must apologize for Ken. He's hetrosexual.


All these pretty words BRC use like "Non-Profit", ""Volunteers", "Noble Cause" yet a huge percentage to salary.

At least Sierra club is opened book about their agenda.


Why is it that "Good People" at Seirra Club volunteer their services(2.5%),

And the "Good People" at BRC need to be on a fat payroll(22%)?


If you were to adapt the Sierra model, you should be only burning $25,000.00 for salaries. But shouldn't you be? BRC is a non-profit, volunteer organization right?


I have no problems with what you're trying to sell. It's how you're selling it.

This is a silly spin you are using that makes no sense in the real world.

In the first place, it is a simple function of mathematics to figure out your twist has nothing to do with the number of volunteers out there working and everything to do with the size of the budget income from big corporations and foundations funded by big corporations.

Huge percentage to payroll? Fat payroll? Give me a break. I wish I could pay our staff more money... something more in line with what the business world pays.

We are doing what we say we are doing. That is what it is about. It isn't about selling something. I don't understand why you keep saying that we are not upfront about what we are doing. There is no hidden agenda here. What is it that you think is hidden and not upfront?

Greg

[HummBebe]

PS Dennis, you asked a question and we answered. Ken asked and we answered. How is that defensive?

[Greg Mumm]

Originally Posted by DennisAJC

Again,

Sierra Club has pissed off millions of people.

BRC has pissed off none. 3 or 4 people were just shaking their heads at how poorly it's being run, asking questions.

By how it reads, It seems you and Greg are slightly, if not pissed off, angry and defensive.

That quote does not apply to BRC.

You are quite right. I am necessarily in a defensive posture. I and the organization I represent have stood accused unrighteously.

In the face of statements like, "...just shaking their heads at how poorly it's being run..." I thought I was being fairly civil. You surely realize that it is my job to see that it is run efficiently and you have just insulted me unabashedly. Yes, that makes me angry at some level and yes that makes me defensive. More importantly however, I'm still here trying to answer your questions whether they are well founded or not. I really do care about what the grassroots thinks and we really are sincere in trying to make a difference.

Greg

[Greg Mumm]

HummBebe-

I believe I will step away for now. Thank you for the opportunity to try to answer to what BRC is constantly accused of.

Don't hesitate to contact us if there is anything we can do or if there are more questions.

Greg Mumm

PS. I learned something here today.

[DennisAJC]

I'm pointing out irregularities and comparisons.

You guys shouldn't get your panties in a knot. You should use it to answer the question as to why you're miserably losing the battle.


Are you guys formulating a strategy even? Or just reactive as they come along(Another question so take a deep breath.)?





Like most people here, When I look at donating to an non-profit organization, I research first. When I see the "taking" disproportionate with the "giving",

I WON'T DONATE. And by the looks of it, alot here won't either.

Now let me ask you, how's the donations coming along?

People are donating LAND to Seirra Club. How's things going with you guys?



You definitely need restructuring and a strategy. If you deny that too, you've already lost.



Some people can't handle the truth or advice. That's why you a Jac are freakin out.

[HummBebe]

Greg, thank you, for your time and your service to the off road community.

I hope this was a good "I learned something" and not a bad "I learned something".

Let me know if there is anything I can do for you.

Bebe

[DennisAJC]

At the very least, we were able to bring some attention to the Land use Forum. It's a freakin ghost town in here.

Glad you learned something Greg. Good luck to you.

If you need any strategy or marketing advice, let me know.

[RuggedH2]

I can't believe I read through this whole thing.

Dennis makes his arguments again, I guess some people see what he's talking about, but for the life of me I can't figure out what he's trying to say. I guess he's just so much smarter than I am that it completely escapes me (like all the other flaming liberal intellectuals).

Defending the Sierra Club or any other militant eviro-mental organization, while claiming you are looking out for the right to drive off road vehicles, flies in the face of reason.

If the thing seems to appear to defy common sense, it probably does.

Sales pitch all you want Dennis, when you write-I feel like I'm being sold something.

I've already donated to the USA-All to fight the whack-jobs in the SUWA, and now that I've read through this, I'm gonna send money to BRC. Because I want to, not because they sold it to me.