Rubicon VS H2

[Steve R]

Musk-master,

That certainly is one tight set-up, I'll give you that! But you still have not one...but two big-old pumpkins set between your axles.

You're approaching H1 capability though, certainly a formiddable vehicle!

[Mike97ZJ]

The great thing about those two pumpkins between the axles: they are connected to solid axles.

Those solid axles mean far more suspension travel than an IFS vehicle, and more clearance in some cases.

Okay, so you found one situation where the H1 excels. Sure, it's got those great geared hubs and belly plate. But it has virtually no suspension travel! That clearance is all it has going for it.

What kind of Wrangler was it that couldn't make it up that hill? I bet it was a YJ (square headlights).

I'm sorry, but the Hummer is not the final word in offroad vehicles. For most terrain, a small, short wheelbase rig with solid axles will work best, whether it be a 'Zuk, Jeep, early Bronco, or D90.

Oh, and I'd put money on that Scout being able to out wheel an H1.

[Steve R]

The H1 has more then "virtually no suspension"....granted it's not huge...but it's still there. Pumpkins may remain constant in terms of distance from the groud...but still..there they are in the way.

The Scout could out-wheel the H1 in some situations....but more often I bet the H1 would outwheel the Scout. I don't see much in the way of lateral stability there. Nor can it drag it's entire belly over boulders.

Come on man...give the H1 some credit. Your making it sound like an Explorer.

[muskyman]

I built that scout from scratch

it has a 392 agricultural pump motor(18% nichol block) stroked to 414 it makes 330 to 360 hp depending on the jets and timing and fuel. well over 500 ftlbs of torque. the motor is dropped in the frame three inches to lower COG. it runs thru a 12" clutch into a T19 trans with a 6.78:1 first gear into a dana 300 TC with crawler gears.it has a rear dana 60 with 35spline axles a front dan 44 with 30 spline hub to hub. 4whl disc brakes.it weighs 4600lbs as you see it, it side hills to 44* and because it is front heavy with a low COG it climbs like you cant even believe. it has a complete enclosed belly pan that makes it dead flat underneith. it has a completly sealed intake and breather system all thru the snorkle.it has forded depths over the hood many times it submarine safe.on the front it has a hydraulic winch that combined with the boosted power steering system pulls at about 12000 lbs. it ramps 988 on a 20* ramp

it goes places a stock H1 cant even come close to. untill you ride in it and expierience what it can do ,you wouldent beleive it.

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[Steve R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> it goes places a stock H1 cant even come close to. untill you ride in it and expierience what it can do ,you wouldent beleive it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like it's time for me to take my Hummer booklet and go home. A wise man knows when he's been beat. I'm not wise...but I still seem to know when it's time to quit.

Still....the H1 has more side-slope stability and the CTIS is pretty cool. Plus....I bet you can't spend nearly as much on parts even if you tried!!

Nice rig. Can't honestly say I understand all of what you rattled off....but I'm impressed!!! Just don't let MAC see that pic...he'll brand us a bunch of backcountry yahoo's! Maybe if you painted it up gloss black, chromed it out and put some underbelly neon lights or something

oh yeah....some sidebars gets them excited too!

[muskyman]

yes I drag the belly over boulders, it side hills everybit as well as a H1 due to the droped engine and soft top.

and no I dont have CTIS, but it does have my tirelocker system that allows me to air down to what ever presure I want.

at 4psi I can drive over snow drifts like a snowmobile. plus its power to weight ratio is so good a H1 gets left in the last zip code

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[Mike97ZJ]

Sounds like a great setup you got there Musky.

Steve, don't get me wrong, I think the H1 is cool and capable in it's own unique way. You can't strap a parachute to many other vehicles and throw them out of cargo planes, that's for sure. Also, it's fording depth while equiped with a snorkel is impressive.

The H1 just wasn't built for technical wheeling. For one thing, it's just too damn big to fit down most trails. Also, it was designed with the lead footed serviceman in mind. It's not about finessing it's way over obstacles, it's about crashing over them at high speed. Problem is, most people don't drive like that in the rear world, not when you have to make payments on the thing.

Then again, different vehicles work better than others for different kind of wheeling. I think the terrain that we wheel on is very different. Most trails I run, a Hummer wouldn't even fit. And if it did, it would be severely limited in the number of different lines that it could take. Yes, they are stable on sidehills, as long as they are relatively smooth. I think it's nice to be able to keep all four wheels on the ground, and most pics of H1's that I've seen have been of it 3 wheeling because of the lack of suspension flex. Also, that long wheelbase and low rocker clearance lead to a lowsy breakover angle and can make it prone to body damage. I've seen more than one shot of a H1 high centered on a relatively mild hill.

How about this: Just about all the mag reviews of the H2 that I've read say it is BETTER off road than the H1. What do you think of that?

[Hummie2]

Musky...

Nice Scout. Pretty serious rig there.

Just curious as to what type of carburation you made work on it.

Don

[muskyman]

I run a milled quadrajet with snap springs on the metering rods. its 825 cfm.

the carb was custom built for the motor by brad urban at the carb shop in Cuchamonga CA

it acts like fuel injection in everyway never stutters even when the truck is at insane weird angles.

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[Hummie2]

Musky...

OK sounds cool. I didn't think you ever made a Holly work off-road very well. I didn't anyway, but I had great results with Predators though.

Don

[muskyman]

a friend of mine at performance unlimited is a really talented tuner of predator carbs, check out his site he sets them up for lots of off roaders.

but the quadrajet has much better off-idle characteristics so because I spend most my time on very tactical trails off-idle is whats most important.

Musky:the thinking mans fish

Dirt is for playing roads are for getting there

[Steve R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike97ZJ:
How about this: Just about all the mag reviews of the H2 that I've read say it is BETTER off road than the H1. What do you think of that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm confused and puzzled. I've been on the trail several times and watched H1's do amazing things. Several times it was the only vehicle to make it to the top of horrifically rutted runs. It's definitely a vehicle that the driver needs particular experience with.

The H2....I almost forgot how we originally described it: A Jeep Grand Cherokee on steroids.

Well, to sum it up....it's like my fishing equipment: a different rod & reel for each application/situation.

My other thought....go check out my "fun in hummers" thread!

[Mike97ZJ]

I did. I just stared at that pic for 5 minutes trying to come up with a caption. I couldn't. I'm speechless.



Oh, and I think the mags like the H2 better because it has a solid rear axle with the locker, and is a little narrower than the H1.

[Steve R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike97ZJ:
Oh, and I think the mags like the H2 better because it has a solid rear axle with the locker, and is a little narrower than the H1.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to mention costing half as much?

[Mike97ZJ]

Yeah, that too.

See, instead of buying an H1, someone could buy a Rubicon, trailer, and H2 to tow it with.

[Duramax Diesel for H2]

this article is probably a better one to compare the two vehicles: http://www.chicagotribune.com/classi...7298694.column

[Allen]

After reading that article...enough said. For me the H2 is perfect. I tow a boat, 3 quads and my former 1999 wrangelr went 30mph up the moutain pass on the way to Lake Mead in NV because the Jeeps are power starved. My H2 carries my 3 kids and gear and it'll take me anywhere offroad I have ever had the courage or stupidity to go...and come back!

[Duramax Diesel for H2]

here is a pic that depecites exactly what the rubicon has that the average jeep does not have.

[Duramax Diesel for H2]

full chassis pic

[Mike97ZJ]

The Wrangler is more than a vehicle, it's practically a lifestyle.

You have to be a special sort of person to tollerate a Wrangler on a daily basis. A lot of reviews knock the Rubi because of it's onroad manners, but most people who buy them could care less. When the nice weather comes around and the top and doors are removed and the windshield is folded down, all that is forgotten.

Eventually, I'd like to get a Wrangler, but as a 2nd car. For me, it's just not practical enough to be a daily driver.

From a purely offroad standpoint though, you just can't beat them.

The Rubi is great because it comes stock with all the goodies that serious rockcrawlers would install on them later anyway.

Regular Wranglers come with A Dana 30 front axle and a Dana 35 rear axle. A Dana 44 is optional on standard Wranglers, but it has drum brakes.

The Rubi comes with Dana 44 axles front and rear, and the rear one is also equiped with disk brakes.

On the 6cyl Wrangler, the best gearing you can get is 3.73. The Rubi comes with 4.10's.

Standard Wranglers have optional Trak Lok rear limited slip. Rubi has front AND rear electric lockers that work as ltd. slips when unlocked.

Standard Wranglers have a 2.72 low range. The Rubi has a 4.1 low range. Crawl range is in the 60's.

Standard Wrangler has optional 3 speed auto trans w/out overdrive. The Rubi has an optional 4speed auto w/OD.

Rubi also comes standard with factory rocker protection and full skidplating.

The Rubi also comes stock with MTR's in 245/75R16, which are the biggest tires offered on a Jeep. Basically a 31" tire.

Only negatives about the Rubi are easily remedied. A 3-4" lift from Rubicon Express and some 33-35" tires will remedy the problem of the Rubi's relatively low stance.