H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......

[DWPC]

Originally Posted by PhilD

Not sure it is way overpriced and those figures are slightly off, 2007 Wrangler Unlimited X - $21,750.00, 2007 Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon - $28,235.00, but I understand the point you are making. If you really want it for off-road use, you are almost better off buying an X, throwing in an Atlas and a couple of 60's, may work out at a little more when all is said and done, but would be a much stronger setup.

The MSRP on the Rubi was I interested in was definitely close to $33K, but that was an Unlimited with auto, dual roofs and a few other goodies. I'm sure the base "X" was $18-19K, but that might have been the 05 price.

I agree about building up. If I wanted real rock-crawler, I'd buy a ten yr old TJ or 4Runner and modify it. I don't think many factory Rubis are sold to hard-core trail drivers.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by DWPC

The Rubi's ride is brutal, the noise is horrible, the step-over awkward, its cramped, its an big job to lower or raise the top. Great on the trail, but just too crude and primitive for daily driving. I just can't imagine driving a Rubicon 500 miles. The Rubi is essentially a 2wd rig on the pavement except for those well-versed in using "old-fashioned" 4wd (and busted axles). From what I've read, I don't see much in the new 07 that will correct these things. Better, but still a dinosaur.

For those who do hit the trails, very very few H3s or Rubicons will ever see a trail that requires a front locker or the Rubi's nominal edge in articulation. The H3 drives like a very nice sedan in town, is extremely comfortable for long trips, and offers lots of space. The H3 has all the benefits of 2006 engineering and safety while the Rubi is stuck in a 70s time warp; its FINALLY getting ABS in 07. And the the Rubi is way (IMO) overpriced; almost double a basic Wrangler (06 was $18K vs 33K)!

I was shopping a Rubi last September, but the Jeep dealer pissed me off so bad I walked out...and discovered the Hummer dealer was just around the corner. I figured what the hell, and got a test drive an H3. Thank God that Jeep salesman was an moron.

yer stupid.

I agree about building up. If I wanted real rock-crawler, I'd buy a ten yr old TJ or 4Runner and modify it. I don't think many factory Rubis are sold to hard-core trail drivers.[/quote]

And even fewer H3's are sold to hard-core trail drivers. Most H3 sales are in affluent urban areas.

S.

[DennisAJC]

Originally Posted by Steve - SanJose

And even fewer H3's are sold to hard-core trail drivers. Most H3 sales are in affluent urban areas.

S.

That's just great. Thank-you.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

They're closely matched with slightly different advantages. Offroad, comparing the manual trannys, the JK's 6-spd has better low range and overdrive, but in the automatics, the H3 has better gearing overall.

JK features that the H3 lacks:

- convertible soft or hardtop
- removable doors w/ short door option
- fold-down windshield
- front e-locker
- elec sway-bar disconnect

H3 features the JK lacks:

- leather
- rear side curtain air bags
- full-time AWD

Advantages over the '07 H3:

Better Torque/Weight ratio (at higher RPMs)
Higher (slightly better) crawl ratio with manual tranny
Internal roll cage
Better ground clearance (by 1 inch)
Longer wheelbase
-- more front and rear passenger room
-- potentially nicer highway ride and easier time climbing
Shorter length overall (13 in), yielding shorter overhangs
-- better approach and departure angles
Narrower width (1 in)
-- it may possibly suffer less side damage on some trails
Larger windows
-- potentially better view of the trail
More cargo room
-- partly impeded by roll cage
Slightly better EPA mpg on paper
-- (we'll see when it hits the streets)

Disadvantages to the '07 H3:

Lower HP/weight ratio
Less HP & torque at low RPMs
Lower (worse) crawl ratio on auto tranny
Shorter track (by 3.5 in)
-- less stable on side slopes and maybe during cornering
Lower breakover angle (by 4 degrees)
-- more likely to high center
Wider curb-to curb turning circle (by 4 in)
-- less agile in turns or switchbacks
Smaller stock tire size (by 1 in)
-- plus a stock H3 can easily run 35's
Lower payload (by 150 lbs)
Lower tow rating (by 1000 lbs)
Lower roof load capacity

Anyway, it's all academic. Decide what you need, take a test drive, and pick the rig that gets it done for you. I wanted a 4-door rig to get me around in style and take me to places most people can't go. For me that's the H3.

[Agriv8r]

we have a jeep store as well, and even my jeep counterparts like the H3 better.

[DWPC]

Originally Posted by Steve - SanJose

And even fewer H3's are sold to hard-core trail drivers. Most H3 sales are in affluent urban areas.
S.

My point is that I wouldn't expect to see serious rock crawlers buying a new $30K+ anything. They'll buy a used 4x and put their money into mods. Offroad flavor is used to sell all SUVs, but the H3 is convenient family vehicle in urban areas and great offroad too. The Rubicon definitely is not, but the bulk of buyers are urban. Though the Rubi is marketed as a ready-made rock crawler, most of the Rubicons I see in So CA are driven by young women.

I had a co-worker who commuted every day in a Wrangler, but only about seven or eight miles each way on local roads. When he changed jobs and his commute grew to close to 20 miles freeway each way, the Jeep didn't last long.

[XM DUDE]

Originally Posted by Agriv8r

we have a jeep store as well, and even my jeep counterparts like the H3 better.

Well I must admit Hummer just does it better as I'm older and I like confort but don't have the budget for an expensive SUV, but have done the Jeep thing so the H3 is perfect.

[DWPC]

Originally Posted by PhilD

I'll agree with you on that as far as it relates to a new Rubi, but not the price, competition rock crawlers can and do spend $60k+ on rigs.

Yes, but I think the guys who compete in organized events live in a different universe than the avg 4x4er.

[yzergod]

Well, I do own both (TJ & H3) and I can tell you that the Jeep is a lot more utilitarian. But, it also is a lot more fun to run around in with the top & doors off. The H3 seems too confined, but more refined. I am still learning about it's idiosyncracies such as having to open the door to adjust the seat. Also, for me, the windows are too high to rest your arm on while driving and the rest on the door too low. But... I love its looks and the fact that I am one of the few around here who has one (less than 6 in this area). I can run around town in my cookie cutter truck that gets 13 mpg and nobody pays me any attention, but if I'm in the H3, the hippies go ape and yell obscenities at me blaming me for Iraq.

But, consider this: my closest Hummer dealer is 200+ miles away, my closest Jeep dealer is 5. I have stacks of Jeep parts catalogs and there are dozens of online places to buy accessories. I haven't found a H3 specific catalog yet, they are lumped in the back of H2 stuff. Same-same online. Also, if you remove all the bling for sale and the over priced roof racks, there really is only a dozen or so items for the H3. Similar items such as nerf steps cost almost double for the Hummers as they do for the Jeeps. Why? Are they made of twice the material? I don't think so, the manufacturers are capitalizing on a more afluent market.

There are numerous comanies such as AEV that will build you a Jeep with a Hemi in it, or a Chevy 350, or Ford 5.0, or a diesel, but nobody that I've seen does for the H3 (yet). I know Bully Dog was working on stuffing a diesel in an H3 for SEMA, but have yet to hear if that has gone through or not. I asked my source at Quadratec why they don't carry H3 accessories and he said, "...from the inside news....GM is going down and going down hard. They lose money on every car...the trucks are the only thing keeping the money afloat and many of our vendors are not investing money in GM products due to a fear that they will not be around much longer. Toyota is on the verge of buying out the Chevrolet brand (GM is going to be spun off like AMC did to AM General)....and the Hummer line is not doing that well either. From the numbers we have the Liberty is still out pacing it. (The Commander is tanking big time though.....) I like the H3 though....more than the KJ." If this is the case, then it would explain why companies like Hypertech are dragging their heels on a power programmer for the H3, yet have one for the Commander. And the lack of performance mods.

I guess my point is if you want an offroad TOY that you can bolt up a ton of aftermarket items and thrash it around on the trail without worry, then buy the Jeep. If you want a more luxurious and refined vehicle then the H3 is for you. There will be people who thrash their H3's offroad and Rubi owners that never leave the mall parking lot. It is all in the eye (and wallet) of the beholder.

The perfect offroad vehicle for me would have to bee a 2003-2006 Unilimited Rubicon. Longer wheelbase and add a long arm lift, some 35" or 37" tires and a winch and you are done. IMHO.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by yzergod

The perfect offroad vehicle for me would have to be a 2007 Unilimited Rubicon. Longer wheelbase and add a long arm lift, some 35" or 37" tires and a winch and you are done. IMHO.

fixed

[yzergod]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

fixed

Nah, the 2003-2006. I think it will be like the CJ8 in the future. Plus, it has the die-hard and bulletproof 4.0 inline six that they dropped for '07. I'll have to see a 2007 in person before I determine on it.

[XM DUDE]

MMMMMMMMMMM diesel

[blindzebra]

if someone says the H3 has AWD again I'm seriously gonna snap. If you don't know the difference between AWD and full time 4WD please look it up. Saturn vues have AWD. HUMMERs have full time 4WD

[DWPC]

Originally Posted by yzergod

I guess my point is if you want an offroad TOY that you can bolt up a ton of aftermarket items and thrash it around on the trail without worry, then buy the Jeep.

Jeep modders have had a 40 year head start. Give the H3 a few years to build a sustainable aftermarket base; there'll be plenty of aftermarket stuff, provided GM maintains the basic H3 platform to make it worthwhile for fabricators to invest.

[DarthKarl]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

if someone says the H3 has AWD again I'm seriously gonna snap. If you don't know the difference between AWD and full time 4WD please look it up. Saturn vues have AWD. HUMMERs have full time 4WD

x100!!!

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

if someone says the H3 has AWD again I'm seriously gonna snap. If you don't know the difference between AWD and full time 4WD please look it up. Saturn vues have AWD. HUMMERs have full time 4WD

You're right, "full-time 4WD" would have been more correct ... the difference being that the H3's xfer case has locking 4-hi and 4-lo options, which a Saturn Vue lacks. Didn't mean to give you heartburn tho. Have a tums on the house