JeepForum.com, H2 Recovery Team, H2 vandalism and more...?

[h2?]

this post hits the nail on the head. for those that wheel, craniac etc etc. good to go. for those that don't, relax. it's ok. you are secure in your image only world. as long as you like who you see in the mirror, thats all that matters. most of the h2 owners i have met are cool. i helped a h2 guy about a month ago. The h2 owners on this board want to flame jeepers for god knows why. the real test of a man is not what he drives or his place in society, it is wether they are down to earth enough to lend a hand to anyone, anywhere, anytime. chew on that. semper fi

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brrrrrrrrr:
For the most part, I can't speak for everyone, we'd love to go wheeling with you guys, but I have never seen an H2 offroad and the H2 Owners I have approached about this look at me like I am crazy.

I'm sure some of you do take your H2s offroad, and yes there are jeeps that never go off road, but for something that has been labeled as the ultimate off road machine you'd think more people would be wheeling them .... except the people bought them for the image only.

It's these "image only" people that bother us/me. These are usually the arrogant people that will "drive over curbs to avoid traffic" (quoted items paraphrase things from your album page) and these same people are usually the ones that will argue to no end about how capable their H2 is and how bad a Jeep/chevy/yota is. I myself, don't buy a vehicle for the "looks people give me", or so that I can "pull up next to other vehicles and smile at them". Just as I would laugh at the lack of maturity in these acts should a Jeeper do them I do so towards anyone else, including H2 owners.

I think there are a lot of H2 owners that give those of you that bought the vehicle and really use it, a bad name. Unfortunately there are a lot, a whole lot of people that got their h2s to make a statement ... If you need a vehicle to let the world know who you are then you aren't much of anyone in my book.

I also think a lot of people have problems with seeing how a vehicle that heavy, with the limited articulation that it's IFS has, and large turning radius can go down a trail and not damage it. Having never seen one on the trail I can't comment about this myself, just want to fill you guys in. And I do feel for you on this level coming from owning a large vehicle before my Jeep.

I don't want to get into how/why I think a stock Jeep will out wheel an H2, unless you want to, but remember that a stock jeep costs a lot less than an H2. Consider the Jeep you would be "up against" if I went out and spent as much on it as you folks did for your vehicle alone.

For those that actually do take your H2 off road I commend you, but most people will still think poorly of you because you are trashing a 50 grand vehicle, which to most people makes you look really wasteful .

I invite you to let me know next time any of you want to go in my neck of the woods...

OH, I'd love a link to the H2 wheeling movies you have too.

edit - Oh and I don't remember anyone saying that they were going to actually vandalize any vehicles on that thread. I hope that if they said it it was in Jest, but then again I see some of your members feel quite happy that one of us would have our vehicle vandalized. Like I said, it's these types of people that will give the rest of you a bad rep...

http://www.2bbdelta.org

[This message was edited by brrrrrrrrr on 07-28-03 at 05:05 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[BADRAP]

I know that this is an open forum and all should be able to post, but where do some of these people come from and how do they get on here... It seems as if their only intention is to slam H2 owners and future owners. I know that I speak for many when I say, that YES my H2 is an image, and it says alot about those that own them. I have taken my H2 offroad and had fun doing it. Although I would not do anything serious that would tear it up, if I wanted to do that then I would spend the money and buy an old cheap POS and tear it up, why spend 55K to tear something up, never understand that one... I am just saying this is an open forum and there is no reason for outsiders to come on here and start flaming and causing trouble... This just like other forums has and will have its share of trolls and the more we monitor and watch out for these people the better off this place will be...

For the NON H2 OWNERS:
This forum is open you are welcome, but come in peace, not to cause issues and try to make a statement here... If you want to do this then drop the cash join the club and then talk all you like.. If not then take your jeeps and what not and go somewhere else.. We have neither the time nor the inclination to dwell on your misfourtunes and ludicris ideas about Hummer owners.. I think that we can all get along in some shape or fashion...

BADRAP
DOMESTIC PARTS NET
03 H2, Lux, Pewter
03 BMW 525i, Titanium Gray Metallic, Black Leather
H2 Club - Houston Chapter..
badrap@sbcglobal.net

[Steve R]

Ya know....when we go trolling and hunting for tuna we don't bring our whippy little bass rods and light tackle. And when we are hitting up the kelp paddies for calico's...we leave the heavy stuff at home.

Much like different tackle, the H2 and the Jeep are different vehicles. When our club went to Stoddard Valley and had to work around all those nasty rocks, boulders and tight trails...it was a bitch and we watched smaller vehicles with shorter wheelbases turn circles around us.

However, our last event was a desert run through sand washes, steep hills and long roads where we blasted through at speeds in excess of 60 mph. Trust me when I say a raised, short-wheelbased, SFA vehicle would not have kept up with us...not even close. Not only that....but we were moving 3-4 people per rig and all dressed up with camping gear....no jeep could carry that many people and that much supplies.

Vipers and Vette's scream down the straights, Porsche's carve the twisties....just different vehicles.

"The Ultimate Go Anywhere Vehicle"....it's just a tag-line. Don't believe the hype and don't resent a marketing plan.

It's not what you have in life...it's what you do with it. It really is that simple. I'd help out ANY vehicle I find on the trail, as well as welcome any to join us.

[SOCAL XMER]

Well said Steve, I get so tired of who has the better rig.Just buy what you can afford and wheel it!!

future H2 or H3 owner

[Dan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by h2?:
... to quote one of your own, "Drive what you like. Expect the same respect you give. Its that easy." Ironic one of your own sums it up the best, i feel bad for you
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that was a compliment?

If you think about it, it all really doesn't matter. Hummer labeled the H2 as the "Ultimate Offroad Machine", not its buyers. "Ultimate" is a subjective word, depending on your needs. Ultimate for one person might be to have lots or cargo space and a decent ride, while others dont care about space and want a heavy duty suspension.

Some H2 owners wheel their H2's all the time, others will never see dirt. But to go so far & say that the ones that never see dirt are all mall queens is a little short sighted. Take my situation for instance. When the SUT comes next year it will be my daily driver, to & from work. Also to go on my Home Depot errands, etc. It probably wont see dirt more than a few times a year. Does that make me a yuppie ego-head? No, it means that I just dont have time. Two kids, house, yard, job, etc. Mind you, I'd love to go every week like I did with my CJ7 years ago but I can't now. Sure, there are folks who are buying H2s for the image but to lump everyone into that crowd isnt right.

My objective opinion - the H2RT is a little much and gives the impression that its members are somewhat immature and hating. I realize its all in fun, but consider what the average person looking at it from the outside might think.

Really though, who cares about it all. Why find some useless axe to grind? Why spend energy irritated about what other people drive? It silly if you really think about it. Its right up there with the Ford vs Chevy arguing. Time is so much better spent.

Again - Drive what you like. Expect the same respect you give. If you're going to have an H2RT sticker on your jeep, dont expect H2'ers to be Hi-5'ing you for it. And if you're driving your H2 with your nose up in the air, dont expect jeepers to be thumbs up.

I drive an XJ by the way - H2 is on order.

- Dan

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SUT on order since 12/02 - 11 months to go!
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[brrrrrrrrr]

I'm certainly not here to try to argue with you on your own forum. After reading a few threads I got the idea that you folks don't understand why there is dislike for some of you and I am here to try to enlighten you.

BADRAP-
"I know that I speak for many when I say, that YES my H2 is an image, and it says alot about those that own them" ... To maority of the population all it really says is that you can afford a 50K vehicle. I'll address the image it portrays to the later on in this post...

Steve R-
I agree that most trail rig Jeeps couldn't race across the desert at 60Mph, but before you draw any conclusions you may want to check out some of the jeep speed guys. If I were to spend the price difference between my Jeep and your H2 I think I'd be able to keep up with no problems. Actually for the price of your H2 I could get 2 jeeps, leave one at home and still afford to nicely outfit the other for whatever beatings I want to give it. It really doesn't matter what wheels beter where, and saying your H2 will out wheel a jeep doesn't help your arguement. Whether it's true or not, it still cost at least 30k more than most Jeeps.

Dan-
"Sure, there are folks who are buying H2s for the image but to lump everyone into that crowd isnt right.

My objective opinion - the H2RT is a little much and gives the impression that its members are somewhat immature and hating. I realize its all in fun, but consider what the average person looking at it from the outside might think."

Think about that ... the average person. The average person can't afford to spend 50K on an H2 ... ot even the gas bill, so they assume that anyone that buys an H2 buys it for image, are wasteful & don't understand why you got an H2 not a suburban. I think most folks don't understand why a pickup truck, or a suburban can't do the same things for you utility wise. And I don't think the H2 puts off the image you folks think it does.... especially to the average person. Average people don't look at your H2 and think how cool you are. Average people think you are driving the biggest vehicle, with the worst gas mileage, taking up the most amout of parking space and trying to prove how successful you are by doing do. And yes, if you are using the biggest gas guzzler ever, as a daily driver, for driving yourself to work in these days of high arse gas prices, people are going to dislike you. I'm not trying to attack & it's nothing personal, thats just the way it is.

www.2bbdelta.org

[Dan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brrrrrrrrr:
Think about that ... the average person. The average person can't afford to spend 50K on an H2 ... ot even the gas bill, so they assume that anyone that buys an H2 buys it for image, are wasteful & don't understand why you got an H2 not a suburban. I think most folks don't understand why a pickup truck, or a suburban can't do the same things for you utility wise. And I don't think the H2 puts off the image you folks think it does.... especially to the average person. Average people don't look at your H2 and think how cool you are. Average people think you are driving the biggest vehicle, with the worst gas mileage, taking up the most amout of parking space and trying to prove how successful you are by doing do. And yes, if you are using the biggest gas guzzler ever, as a daily driver, for driving yourself to work in these days of high arse gas prices, people are going to dislike you. I'm not trying to attack & it's nothing personal, thats just the way it is.

http://www.2bbdelta.org&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;

Its an H2 thing...You wouldn't understand.



Seriously though, then why dont Escalades get the same bad rap? They get bad mileage, are very expensive, huge vehicle, etc, etc. Theyre all image if you ask me. At least the H2 is a capable offroader.

- Dan

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SUT on order since 12/02 - 11 months to go!
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[Steve R]

Mr. Brrrr, (you get what you give), you wrote:

If I were to spend the price difference between my Jeep and your H2 I think I'd be able to keep up with no problems. Actually for the price of your H2 I could get 2 jeeps, leave one at home and still afford to nicely outfit the other for whatever beatings I want to give it. It really doesn't matter what wheels beter where, and saying your H2 will out wheel a jeep doesn't help your arguement. Whether it's true or not, it still cost at least 30k more than most Jeeps.
-end

I never stated nor argued that the H2 could outwheel a Jeep...I merely tried to find a middle-ground in an effort to tolerate your stench and be friendly.

I like your gentle form of being obnoxious & offensive. What's your point?...that the H2 is not worth it and a Jeep can do it cheaper? I have no interest in researching your "speed jeep", but I know with certainty that a short wheelbased vehicle with axles is no match for a longer wheelbased vehicle with IFS. Deceive yourself otherwise, but spare us your bull****.

I've had 3 jeeps and I can tell you that you are completely right: there is no comparison, the H2 out-classes the Jeep hands down. It's better looking, better made, far more luxurious and is just a much sweeter vehicle that carries with it some prestige in ownership.

Your numbers are off. By the time you take a Tahoe and have it all done-up with tires, lockers and all the good stuff, you're just about where an H2 is. And what does a Grand Chickedee cost nowadays anyways...who cares, the interior is so stripped down and cheap. I recently "unloaded" mine, but not before it nickel & dimed me to death with crappy design.

Anybody in a trailer can buy themselves a frankenstein'd CJ and attend tractor-pulls with the best of them....it's just another jeep. You don't like the H2, you dont' see the value in the H2...that's fine. Some people just love a greasy hamburger. We like steak and can afford it: deal with it.

It's a lot like the guy with a built-up old Nova with a huge engine: he thinks the guy who bought the vette is a fool. He can buy and build 4 Nova's for the price of a vette.

It's a matter of taste, ability to afford such a vehicle and an appreciation for something much nicer then common junk. Obviously a concept that is well beyond your ability to appreciate.

Here's a thought: Jason...this guy is obviously a troll who has no intention of constructively contributing to this forum....do I hear a flushing noise coming on??????

[brrrrrrrrr]

Dan
I totally agree. But, the excursion & escalade have now been outdone by the H2 interms of price and size, which leads you to your problem. Oh and for the record, I hate it when people have the "it's a jeep thing" stickers and I laugh at them as well.

Steve,
I'm actually trying to be friendly. I read the post of the stuff from colorado 4x4 and someone asked why people look at h2 owners the way they do, so I'm trying to answer their question.

I've tried to respect your forum, I've used no abusive language, no curse words and made no personal attacks, unlike you have.

I even listed the website of the 4x4 club I am in in case any of you wanted to come wheel with us.

Sorry if you missed that, and I really am here to disscuss things and be real about it, not to troll. If you don't want to hear what the average guy is thinking then I apologize for you having to read my thoughts.

www.2bbdelta.org

[Steve R]

Brrrrr....

Your trying to be friendly? I don't think so. While you have not used absuive language, curse words or mounted any personal attacks....you have entirely been here to boast the **** out of your jeep and lay an ugly picture of the Hummer. Let's not kid ourselves, your intent is malicious....your just doing with with a smile on your face and soft voice.

There's nothing friendly about coming onto a foreign board and boasting how you could put together 2 jeeps for the price of the H2 and out-do us. You claim that you are merely explaining stuff....but we can read between the lines and pick up on what you're really trying to convey: the notion that Jeeps are great and Hummers are over-priced ineffective gloats.

You deserve the hostility. The next time you annoy anyone...I will see to it you are removed from the forum. We've been attacked long enough to recognize the soft approach.

This forum is about Hummers, in particular the H2. Since you don't own one, why don't you leave.

[brrrrrrrrr]

I hope you'll read my posts again and notice what I said the first time. I never said I could build 2 jeeps for the price of 1 H2 that would both out do the H2. What I did say was that for 50k I can build a Jeep that will keep up with an H2. I then said for the price of the H2 I could buy 2 Jeeps and outfit one of them quite nicely.

Not once did I say my Jeep is better or say I think H2s are over priced gloats. All I've done is given you the insight of what most people think of the H2 and how they perceive the drivers/owners of them. In fact there is another thread on this board disscudding how the H2 has lost some of its glory now that it isn't new, and some even feel threatened when people approach them when they are in their H2 because they feel that people may give them greif over owning the H2.

If you want to go on a mission to have me banned from this forum I won't complain. But like I have stated several times, I'm came to discuss things, not start an arguement or hate anyone. It seems though that you are unwilling to calmly discuss anything, so I'll make this my last post, and leave you to your forum. Hopefully one day you will realize that not all Jeepers "hate" H2 owners.

A lot of the folks on here seem open to wheeling & discissing these things with other people, it seems you aren't. I'm not sure what I said that has upset you so much, sorry for whatever it was.

For the rest of you I invite you to come out and wheel with us anytime. Our club has several chapters around the nation and we'd love to have you join us.

www.2bbdelta.org

[HUMMERDOGG]

I stated this a long time ago when we had the jeep trolls invade the air space and I guess I'll have to say it again...

For the price of a "new and bad ass Jeep Rubicon", I could go over to Avalanche Engineering and talk to my good buddy Steve and have him build me one of his custom Assassins or Snipers or his brand new creation the Carnivore that would just f*cking smoke the ass off any souped up Jeep Rubicon, much less any other Jeep you could outfit for the same amount of money.

So here we sit, you the fool for spending all that money on your jeep which you thought was the baddest offroad vehicle made yet it can't hold a candle to my Carnivore for offroading and my Carnivore was so much less money. Now who is the j@ckass for wasting his money??? And who is the genius for having the baddest offroad vehicle made???

And what's funny is if you read my tag, I don't even own an H2...

*member of the "No Hummer Krew"*

[BADRAP]

Very well put HD.....

[DiscoDancingRover]

You could buy 2 jeeps yea, but you get what you pay for. An H2 is better then any jeep. And all these guys are unique, they wheel their H2s. How often will you meet a guy who wheels his or her H2? Not much, but I see about 20-30 jeepers driving around everyday.

That is one reason why I would never buy a jeep, everyone has one, there is nothing unique about it. I have a Rover taht is lifted, and I will rarely see one around here. I go wheeling and have meet a few jeepers and they try to talk down to me as that I wasted my money on that and I should buy a jeep. I don't want a jeep. These guys have worked hard in their life to get the H2 and you have no reason at all to bash on them for having one or to say it is a lesser vehicle. If I could have a dream garage I would have a D90 for SWB trails, the disco for a flexable vehicle, and the H2 for the trails in which the LWB is a plus. Now I can not afford all those but that would be my dream. No off-roader is perfect, like everyone has said. So don't make fun of the people here because they paid their dues to soceity and made something of themselves so they could get an H2. That is just jealousy, thats all so unless you have something productive to add to this site then go away.

I was once a troll, but now I respect the H2, maybe you could do the same.

-CALM

[Buckeye Hummer]

Many of my friends had Jeeps (back in high school). They are very inexpensive, poorly made vehicles that need a significant amount of money thrown at them to have any off-road ability. But of course, after you make them off-road capable, the little on-road comfort the vehicle had is comletely gone. And now what do you have? You have nothing short of a circus vehicle or should I say something more suited to the Ohio State Fair! Don't get me wrong I am "Buckeye Hummer" so don't think I don't love Ohio. I just haven't gone to the fair in quite some time. About the same amount of time since my friends were driving Jeeps (when they didn't have a choice).

BTW, Brrrr, I am driving a Jeep Cherokee in Cape Cod while I am on vacation. The vehicle is purely junk. I do plan to take it up to Norsette beach, which is about 20 miles in the sand. Lucky for me my good friend will be following in a 4wd silverado to pull me out if/when I get stuck. Remember, this is a stock Jeep that is not ready for the fair yet and certainly not ready for deep sand!

[brrrrrrrrr]

I really, I mean really tried to leave well enough alone, but as a few of you emailed me & the responses you guys are giving on here are unbelieveable .....

I can't believe how much hatred some of you seem to have, that or you just aren't reading what I'm posting. I have had ample opportunity to come up with witty & insulting comebacks to a lot of the things some of you have said, but I won't drop to that level. I'm not here to do that.

Buckeye, I wouldn't think a stock & ragged out rental anything would be much fun, though with it being so light it may do better in the sand that you'd think. I know XJs have fairly harsh rides, and I'm sure going from your H2 to an XJ is not a pleasant experience.

Chris, you folks are the only ones saying that your vehicle is better than others, at least in this thread. I'm not saying my Jeep, or any other is better than any H2, go back and read my posts, see for yourself. The closest I said that a Jeep comes to "keeping up with an H2" was after heavy modification. So I don't see why you are getting upset.

Hummerdog, I don't exactly understand the point of your post. I have a vehicle that is a daily driver, I actually use my vehicle for things other than offroad as well. A scorpion is great for hardcore rockcrawlers & such, but that isn't my style, let alone street legal. No place for kids, dogs, or much cargo either. That aside, if you say it is the best offroad vehcile and cheaper than a jeep it would be ridiculous for one to try to "soup up" a jeep and think it is the best offroad vehicle ever. Again, I nevr said my 4x4 is the baddest offroad vehicle ever. Now, further going into what you said, if the scorpion is the baddest offroad vehicle ever and I wanted the baddest offroad vehicle ever it wouldn't make much sense for me to buy an H2 either, would it?

I invite those of you that think I am bashing your H2 to please go back and find any comment where I said my 4x4 is better, or that I think your h2 is garbage.

I can't help the way the public perceives you & your H2. Yes I'm sure your H2 has a better on road ride than a jeep, yes I know lots of you worked hard to be able to afford it and I'm not bashing any of you for that. If you want to ignore what I am saying and bring this to an arguement about which vehicle wheels better then go for it, I won't reply because it is a pointless arguement. If you want to ignore the fact that most of the average folks think an H2 is a too much, go ahead. But the fact remains that that is how the average person feels.

2 Big Broncos 4x4 Club

[Dan]

I think the problem here is that H2 owners have become somewhat defensive due to all of the negative attention since its release. Everything from Huffington to some 4x4 club in Colorado. Unfortunately its taken its toll. I mean, how long can you listen to that crap before you get sick of it, right??

People who come here and troll are not welcome, period. People who come here and try to have a rational discussion about the shortcomings of the H2 are welcome but should be aware of the defensive attitude that has been cultivated by the media, etc.

Im not saying its right, in fact its a shame. But it exists. And I dont think any H2 owner would say they wouldn't like it all to go away.

There are a lot of good, level headed people here. Seems you're in a discussion with some who aren't warm to the topic. Move on I guess.

Like I said, most people here are great. But we do have our resident dorks too

- Dan

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SUT on order since 12/02 - 11 months to go!
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[CO Hummer]

You hit the nail on the head when you say "ENVY". It's plain and simple the reason for all the bashing. I'm not suggesting that everyone wishes they owned an H2. A lot folks would much prefer to have a Jeep, Rover, whatever. They are simply envious of the ability to buy one. It's cleverly disguised in all the B.S. But when you strip it all down, that's the root cause. Of course, the response to my comment will then be "you're so arrogant...to think me envious of you". Arrogance has nothing to do with it. There is no other rational explanation. Every clan of vehicle owners has their share of bad ducks -- in the same proportion. However, you only see the H2 targeted so radically. Envy drives society - you see it everywhere. Politics are nearly 100% based on envy. Vote for me and I'll take his money and give it to you. It works. Brrrr refers to "the public" as perceiving us in a bad light. That same "public" is the one who votes for any politician (Bill Clinton, Al Gore) that promises to redistribute wealth. Why would we expect that the "public" would feel any different about us?

[ItsaJeepThing95]

I'm gonna step in here and share my view on this.

I drive a modified Jeep Grand Cherokee. There are 3 other Grand's in my family, and one Cherokee.

Now, that being said, do I look down on my parents and sister for not beating the living crap out of their Jeep's on the trail like I chose to do? No, because I know the reasoning behind why they bought them. Without really knowing the person behind the wheel of whatever rig they're driving, we have no frickin' clue why they drive what they drive! I've helped several people put lifts on their vehicles, some to be used to wheel, some to just look cool. I originally didn't plan for my Jeep to EVER on anything but dirt roads, but over time that changed a just little bit, lol.

The biggest thing that I see between the Jeep crowd and the H2 crowd right now is ignorance. We assume we know why someone does what they do just by a few posts on the net. Assumptions can be pretty far off based on such little information.

Personally, I didn't expect to EVER see any H2's on the trail, but I found out that some of these guys do wheel! Now you ask why anyone would ever want to wheel in an $50,000 vehicle, I think its the same reason many Grand Cherokee's go wheeling, because we CAN.

I am kind of biased towards hard-core wheeling, or any off-road travel really. I think I would definately be able to identify with and get along with some who wheels their H2, but I'm sure the guys who don't wheel can be cool too.

In my book, if the t-case sees 4lo every once in a while, I'm cool with it. Last year I ran into some Kia Sportage's on Poison Spider Mesa out in Moab. My 1st though was WTF are they doing out here, but then I realized that they're just out here trying to do the same thing we are. Using our vehicle's capability to go places most vehicles sold today cannot go.

So that's my unorganized rambling of thoughts!