Hip-Hop is Dead!

[dеiтайожни]

I don't agree with that. Rappers attempt to convey themselves as murderers, drug dealers, etc.. in their work, the same as actors. If you think rappers with their $100M record deals are out on the streets selling crack to earn a couple thousand a week, you're crazy. They are exactly the same as other celebrities, ever watch cribs, reality shows, and so on? If someone isn't going to be afraid of running into Kevin Spacey in a dark alley but is going to fear for their life if they see Lil Wayne... it's probably going to be because he's black. Would they be scared if it was Eminem in that alley?

True, James Earl Jones isn't shooting actors but rappers aren't shooting rappers either that I'm aware of. They feud like any other people. There aren't countless rappers that have been killed by psychotic fans and they aren't the only ones with stalkers, obsessed fans and so on, actors have them too. They also don't goto prison more that I'm aware of. It's just more publicized, because people want to hear those things to confirm that rap is indeed the downfall of the civilized world.

[The ArchiTexan]

Rappers portray the lowest element of society. They draw the youth into their world of rebellion because the youth are prime to rebel against society. They don’t know history. They don’t know how hard anyone worked to finally get things set a certain way, they only know they don’t like that way and want to change it. The Rappers are the leaders of this rebellion with their pimps, ho’s, bling and pompous attitudes. Young Mexicans, Asians, and Whites have left the culture of their parents and become Black. Everyone wants to be Black because it represents rebellion and easy money. Nobody wants to be Colin Powell, or Martin Lurther King. They are too old school. They all want to be gangstas. Yes, I would be afraid to run into M&M or whatever his loser name is. He is a worthless thug just like the rest of them. They had their moment in the sun, or the dark, ugly side of whatever it is they are proposing. It is time to take back the culture and return it to values of respect, ethnic loyalty, high morals and standards and, above all, education and hard work. I hope Rap is dead. It was the most worthless, low, sexist, violent form of “entertainment” ever conceived on this planet. I am astounded that it was allowed to flourish in the first place, but it did because of violent outbursts crying racism and discrimination in the music industry. Well, they got their way, and look at what happened. Disgusting, vile, abominable images of degradation and immorality. I watched those horrific videos on youtube and was offended by the very sight. If it isn’t dead, the citizens of the USA should rise up and KILL IT!

....Flame away!!!

Whatever sells, it's a free country, rap music, country music, cheap wine to derilect winos, cheap crappy packaged food to herion addicts, 20% interst credit cards for the porrest people, etc. etc.

[frenzy1]

RAP IS CRAP !

[frenzy1]

I like country music
I love country girls
I like Willie Nelson
and don't forget about Merle

There's only one thing that I hate
Cuz it's a bunch of crap
I, I, I hate rap

I like NASCAR racing
Richard Petty's still the king
Yeah, they call me a redneck
But you know, that's a beautiful thing!

There's only one thing that I hate
Cuz it's a bunch of crap
I, I, I hate rap

There's only one thing that I hate
Cuz it's a bunch of crap
I, I, I hate rap

Raaaaaaap is crap
Raaaaaaap is crap

[RubHer Yellow Ducky]

[quote=frenzy1]I like country music
I love country girls
I like Willie Nelson
and don't forget about Merle

There's only one thing that I hate
Cuz it's a bunch of crap
I, I, I hate rap

I like NASCAR racing
Richard Petty's still the king
Yeah, they call me a redneck
But you know, that's a beautiful thing!

There's only one thing that I hate
Cuz it's a bunch of crap
I, I, I hate rap

There's only one thing that I hate
Cuz it's a bunch of crap
I, I, I hate rap

I like Waylon Jennings plus all the female chit kicken musicians.

and

DOOly Partons

Raaaaaaap is crap
Raaaaaaap is crap

[h2co-pilot]

Rap is crap! LOL

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

I see your point on its face, but if you look a little deeper you might see a difference.
Rap stars attempt to personify their lyrics into their image. Actors who play murderers don?t do so nearly to the same degree. That?s why countless rap musicians are killed by other gangstas or imprisoned for violent crimes. Not so much Jack Nicholson (who has played a murderer in movies). Though Darth Vader was a bad guy, James Earl Jones was not going out and shooting other actors while hopped up on crack. It?s a totally different culture. If you turn on MTV?s violent rap crap, you see that those guys are trying to convey that they really are cool, fancy violent people who kill at will. While Kaiser Soze was pretty brutal in ?The Usual Suspects,? I doubt many people in an alley are as afraid of Kevin Spacey as they are the gangsta rappers, who really try to act the part of the brutal murderous man who can kill at will. It?s a different message. One is fiction. The other really attempts to convey reality. If you don?t get that, then too bad.

Well said, very well said. And anyone who references Kaiser Soze just gets a gold star with glitter on it.

Also well said to the Architexan.

I have mentioned before my distaste for the culture.

Punk and Rap would be an equivilant debate.

Rap rose along with Punk, black kids and white kids rebelling for no good reason just as generations before, and though the Circle Jerks, JFA, Agent Orange aren't around (may be around, I dunno) Pennywise, Rage and lots of other anti-establishment/punk/skate/surf are. The rebellion remains but hasn't evolved into the wide-open violence, sexual and personal discrimination, frivolity and overall self demeaning nature that gangsta rap culture has.

Kids need something to identify with.

I think it is indeed the portraits they paint outside of the studio. They think of Cribs as a marketing tool too. If they are shown to be the Cosby's then everyone will think they are traitors for some reason. They are not legit or they are banishing the ghetto.

So they glam it up with grills and the talk (the culture). I guarantee that if they had a KISS house on cribs and the camera showed the group sitting in a dungeon with full-on face paint you would LYOA!

Same thing, I laugh my azz off and watch them walk and talk like uneducated idiots- and kids and older identity seekers look up to them. It's sad.

Marilyn Manson is guilty of the same thing, but the worst his fans will face is a huge crater of a piercing hole in a facial part, not felonies and criminal records, though some attribute his music to Columbine. His stuff and that culture is more self demeaning but still a rebellion.

[dеiтайожни]

The closest any of you have probably came to listening to rap is your middle aged co-worker's imitation of Rappers Delight.

You're implying that without rap there wouldn't be any gangsters. Just because gangsters and the like are out committing crimes, you seem to be blaming it on rap, only because rap in very few cases talks about it... but so does the news. I'm sure the number of people that put on Cop Killer decide to go out and murder a cop simply because they heard it in a song is zero.

As for the Cribs and banishing the ghetto... have you seen it? There aren't very many multi-million dollar homes in the ghetto, if that's not banishing the ghetto then what is? And lmao @ glamming it up with grills and the talk, that's hard core murderer **** right there. So they should be required to wear suits at all times and not talk like themselves?

Please, somebody go through the youtube list I posted and tell me exactly what's offensive, which parts make you want to go murder somebody or do all this other bad stuff you are referring to. Everyone always says they hate rap, but their only reason is because they don't like the sound of it, they aren't even singing, boo hoo. Yet they are so defensive about it they make up all this other nonsense to blame it for. There were gangsters and crime before rap you know..

[h2co-pilot]

Originally Posted by dеiтайожни

The closest any of you have probably came to listening to rap is your middle aged co-worker's imitation of Rappers Delight. I grew up with Gin n Juice, B.B., Ice Cube, Dre., Puffy, B.I.G etc.

You're implying that without rap there wouldn't be any gangsters. No, but that lifestyle is marketed by them. Just because gangsters and the like are out committing crimes, you seem to be blaming it on rap, only because rap in very few cases talks about it... but so does the news. I rarely see young kids dressing like Koppel and Jennings. The news doesn't glamourize it. I'm sure the number of people that put on Cop Killer decide to go out and murder a cop simply because they heard it in a song is zero. Are you positively sure about that though?

As for the Cribs and banishing the ghetto... have you seen it? There aren't very many multi-million dollar homes in the ghetto, if that's not banishing the ghetto then what is? No, but I have heard of several rap "artists" that refuse to leave their old "ghetto" neighborhoods because they would be selling out. I can look it up for you if you want. I guess you can tak ethe rapper out of the ghetto but not the ghetto out of the rapper? Did Gwen Paltrow go out and by six cars after her first movie or was it Patrick Dempsey? () Frivolity my friend.And lmao @ glamming it up with grills and the talk, that's hard core murderer **** right there. Most of them probably aren't, so why rap about it and act like it? So they should be required to wear suits at all times and not talk like themselves? P. Diddy wears suits. English would suffice, especially when you are a role model.

Please, somebody go through the youtube list I posted and tell me exactly what's offensive, which parts make you want to go murder somebody or do all this other bad stuff you are referring to. It's not me I'm worried about, it's the easily impressionable. Everyone always says they hate rap, but their only reason is because they don't like the sound of it, My and many others reason isn't the sound, it's the culture and words they chant over and over to the said impressionable. The lifestyle that is encompassed as glamorous. they aren't even singing, boo hoo. Yet they are so defensive about it they make up all this other nonsense to blame it for. There were gangsters and crime before rap you know..

There is no doubt among many that the "hip hop/rap" culture is detrimental many upon many have discussed it at length and deemed so many times before.

[h2co-pilot]

From crap like that we get this:

[The ArchiTexan]

Oh, come on, fellow citizens! We have all heard rap, the REAL rap, can?t escape it. Every loud obnoxious car sitting next to us at the stop light blaring the filthy lyrics so that even with our windows rolled up we can still hear the morally-base intent. It won the Academy Award for cryin? out loud. And, most of us have heard Tupac, and everyone singing his praises.

The problem isn?t that crime and gangster ways were around before. The problem is in glorifying it and making it a legitimate ?art form.? And, bringing the ghetto to million dollar neighborhoods is just lowering the quality of the hood. Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to conform to the values of the rich. Snobbery means keeping the lowlifes out, not letting them in, with their diamond teeth and their gaudy d?cor. So, yes they should be required to wear suits and not be themselves. Prejudice ignites when the differences of people are so glaring that it makes you run. The problem of individualism, in this nation in particular, is that it emphasizes the separation of class and standards. If someone has worked hard all their life to acquire a fortune, conformed to the standard, and made the choice to live a ?quality? life, then why should they have to live next to trash? Just because they have money? Used to be, the trash lived on the other side of town, and if and when those individuals educated themselves and progress far enough up the ladder they were welcomed and accepted as part of the upperwardly mobile. Now, all you need is money to live in those mansions, and some of the gawd awful people who have money now should be shot! There, that is one aspect of rap that makes people want to run out and murder others.

I have gone through your list and what I find offensive is the lack of respect for women, treating them as object simply for sex (there is never an intelligent looking woman relating to any of the men, she is just there for their pleasure), the sloppiness of their ?costumes,? which reinforce the laziness and slovenliness of the poor enabling them to think they can get by dressed like that and be accepted by the mainstream or even bypass it, and the stereotypical antics and gestures of the black performers which reinforce the images in bigoted and prejudice individual?s minds who now get to say, ?See! See how they jump around and act!? These antics have filtered down into the White, Asian, Latino and young Black youth?s everyday behavior. A guy just casually walking down the street nowadays is swaying and jerking so much that he looks like an idiot! You can spot the influence in any young person who has succumbed. It is NOT a positive influence.

[dеiтайожни]

Still not buying that hip-hop is responsible for a detrimental culture. I've been listening to it for 10 years and I don't have a criminal record. I don't dress like them or act them and I don't talk like them except maybe in jest. Same goes for everyone else I know that listens to it. Have you ever stopped and thought perhaps it isn't the music, that's just how some people are?

Fads go in and out, kids are wearing baggy pants and jewelery now that look ridiculous. So what? It's the thing to do, the problem is not with rap... it's with the kids that won't accept them if they wear dress pants and plaid vests. Are you telling me people have never dressed poorly over the years as a result of a pop singer, rocker or actor? Anyone remember the 80s?

All this nonsense reminds me of what your parents thought of rock & roll. Different genre, different generation, same issues. Something has to be responsible for everybody. People can't just be plain crazy or dumb these days.

What's with all the money comments? Is it so evil that someone who gets a $1M advance to express their art buy 6 cars and a mansion? Nice looking out for rich folk Archi. Those rappers come to our neighborhood with their sinister looking teeth and live in peace but it just makes me so angry that they had a talent and an idea and were able to make it out of the ghetto. Makes me just want to shoot them in the face, everyone of them... how dare they.

Originally Posted by dеiтайожни

Still not buying that hip-hop is responsible for a detrimental culture. I've been listening to it for 10 years and I don't have a criminal record. I don't dress like them or act them and I don't talk like them except maybe in jest. Same goes for everyone else I know that listens to it. Have you ever stopped and thought perhaps it isn't the music, that's just how some people are?

Fads go in and out, kids are wearing baggy pants and jewelery now that look ridiculous. So what? It's the thing to do, the problem is not with rap... it's with the kids that won't accept them if they wear dress pants and plaid vests. Are you telling me people have never dressed poorly over the years as a result of a pop singer, rocker or actor? Anyone remember the 80s?

All this nonsense reminds me of what your parents thought of rock & roll. Different genre, different generation, same issues. Something has to be responsible for everybody. People can't just be plain crazy or dumb these days.

What's with all the money comments? Is it so evil that someone who gets a $1M advance to express their art buy 6 cars and a mansion? Nice looking out for rich folk Archi. Those rappers come to our neighborhood with their sinister looking teeth and live in peace but it just makes me so angry that they had a talent and an idea and were able to make it out of the ghetto. Makes me just want to shoot them in the face, everyone of them... how dare they.

I agree, sounds like the hysteria with Elvis, Beetles, mary jane, etc. Nothing wrong with money, we in Silicon Valley like to take it to the max when it comes to money.

Face it, the Hummer brand is equal parts pop culture and offroad ability. Nothing like it. Ooops, that's too on-topic.

[The ArchiTexan]

Sheez! So, you are the exception! I smoke, but I know it is harmful. I drink, but I know it can harm me. I know child abuse leads to adults who abuse; I know that rude behavior begets rude behavior. I know that listening to rock music at high volumes can damage your ears, but I do it. You won?t give an inch on the reality and documentation of the dangerous effects of gangsta rap on youth! What are you nuts? Or blind? Yes, Elvis was a horrible influence, he brought on rock, then came punk, now we have rap! What?s next? If the society doesn?t band together, it will just keep sinking lower and lower. Come on! Even the most ignorant poor understand the detrimental effects of rap music. I was just watching the show One On One and a young back man said, ?Oh, you don?t want to go to the Bing Dance, it is full of gangstas!" It is even on TV. Maybe that would convince you. Wow! If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem!

[h2co-pilot]

Originally Posted by dеiтайожни

Still not buying that hip-hop is responsible for a detrimental culture. I've been listening to it for 10 years and I don't have a criminal record. I don't dress like them or act them and I don't talk like them except maybe in jest. Same goes for everyone else I know that listens to it. Have you ever stopped and thought perhaps it isn't the music, that's just how some people are?

Fads go in and out, kids are wearing baggy pants and jewelery now that look ridiculous. So what? It's the thing to do, the problem is not with rap... it's with the kids that won't accept them if they wear dress pants and plaid vests. Are you telling me people have never dressed poorly over the years as a result of a pop singer, rocker or actor? Anyone remember the 80s?

All this nonsense reminds me of what your parents thought of rock & roll. Different genre, different generation, same issues. Something has to be responsible for everybody. People can't just be plain crazy or dumb these days.

What's with all the money comments? Is it so evil that someone who gets a $1M advance to express their art buy 6 cars and a mansion? Nice looking out for rich folk Archi. Those rappers come to our neighborhood with their sinister looking teeth and live in peace (You want to see a pic of Teddy Riley's house? He lives down the road, Ill snap one. Unkempt and sh1tty.) but it just makes me so angry that they had a talent and an idea and were able to make it out of the ghetto. Makes me just want to shoot them in the face, everyone of them...(see your violent tendancies?) how dare they.

I don't know you Dei or your friends, but if your balsting that crap I would laugh at you too. And why do you think you are so much younger than some of us? Rap was born before I was.

But I can't see how you can deny what this culture is doing to urban American youth. And yes, I believe it is from the music.

If not from rap- where did the culture come from? How did it come to suburbia?

Sure, some rap artists are positive but at least 75% are not.

It presents the notion that the only way to get out of their situation or to have wealth is by illegal activity. Illegal activity that is not only detrimental to the individual but perpetuates throughout the community. It also perpetuates a psychology of victimization- that is not conducive to socio-economic progress.

(BTW- I checked out your videos. Tell me where guys that look land act like that could work/would be employed to afford those vehicles and stuff!! I'll tell you- no where.

Where are the kids that dress like and act like that going to work- maybe fast food, maybe- hence the detriment and downfall of an already struggling community.

(Not to mention that that legit McDonalds paycheck may go to a set of rims for that dinged up '89 Ford Taurus or $200 tennis shoes rather than to something worthy. This is where the overly tacky show of money-which most of the time ends up in bankruptcy- comes into play.) )


The poor treatment of women mantra'd over and over for example: How is a young black woman going to flourish and respect herself if the neighborhood boys call her a ho and she hears it consistantly on the radio? She has to rely on her mother to tell her she is worthy- and it goes on. I hope you are not blind to this problem as well.

Yes, I think I wore leggings under a skirt a la Madonna in the 4th grade.

However, if people that were shooting guns, dealing drugs etc.(or perceived in that way) were wearing leggings under skirts; I'm sure my mother wouldn't have allowed me to wear it and be discriminated as such- especially if discrimination was a problem to begin with, but how can you blame those that discriminate- that goes on as well.

Adults have always been prude to the next generations music but this has lasted for decades and the gangsta crap for at least 12 or more years and the violence and discrimination glory it justifies continues to get worse- as long as people support it.

The decline in sales hopefully means that this too- will pass.

I believe in artistic expression, free speech and all that. But I don't support things I don't believe in. And in this case- until they are 18, my children don't have the right to "free listen".

P.S.- You are defending the boys wearing make-up (like "Poison"), too much hairspray and the flourescent green leggings right now.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by dеiтайожни

Still not buying that hip-hop is responsible for a detrimental culture. I've been listening to it for 10 years and I don't have a criminal record. I don't dress like them or act them and I don't talk like them except maybe in jest.

Here's what your missing: A certain 12% racial segment of our population commits 57% of the murders in this country annually. Why? More than 50% of the inner-city black kids in this country have no father. That's why such a large percentage of black people are poor and without hope IMO. I've seen studies where blacks who grow up in a traditional family make as much as comparable whites (I'd be able to be a Professor at Yale if I was black). Without fathers, these inner city kids are crying out for male role models. Yet the inner city is dominated by the gansta culture, which is facilitated by gansta rap. Deit may not be affected by it. But the tens of thousands of fatherless black boys in Detroit will be.

Whitlock said a lot of this very well, and he's a black guy from the inner city: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5ZQXaXmCW4&mode=related&search=

[h2co-pilot]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

Here's what your missing: A certain 12% racial segment of our population commits 57% of the murders in this country annually. Why? More than 50% of the inner-city black kids in this country have no father. That's why such a large percentage of black people are poor and without hope IMO. I've seen studies where blacks who grow up in a traditional family make as much as comparable whites (I'd be able to be a Professor at Yale if I was black). Without fathers, these inner city kids are crying out for male role models. Yet the inner city is dominated by the gansta culture, which is facilitated by gansta rap. Deit may not be affected by it. But the tens of thousands of fatherless black boys in Detroit will be.

Whitlock said a lot of this very well, and he's a black guy from the inner city: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5ZQX...elated&search=

Yea, It's all those black bastards. LOL

I couldn't help myself.

Again, MH summed it up well. Well explained.

[dеiтайожни]

Bet you weren't expecting this... but I still don't agree.

Ok, lots of fatherless black kids. They look for role models in gangs. How are these gangs facilitated by rap again? Are you implying that if rap goes away, so do all the gangs? You guys don't listen to rap, so I can't blame you for not knowing anything about it. Luckily you know someone who does and I'll tell you about 97% of rap is simply about luxuries like vehicles, houses, clothes, etc. It's called escapism for those with no means and little hope.

You guys know which rap songs? Cop Killer? and the 3 other the media has put it's spotlight on in the past 12 years?

It's my opinion that you are giving rap too much credit for the downfall of society. You believe rap influences gangs when it's the other way around. Rappers are artists, entertainers and businessmen, they have a target audience. Which means the gang came before the gangsta rap.

You all must be in some fantasy world if banning rap = every black kid without a father will suddenly be good, goto school and become a doctor. Besides fads with material objects, little would change if we had no rap. But if you feel qualified in knowing rap enough to continue the debate, please. I've had this conversation about 200 times, it usually ends with the protester says rap is crap, period, end. Followed by a parody of what an old white guy would look like doing an over exaggerated demonstration of a rap.

CP -- I never mentioned age. I only made references (which you got) that any 25 year old would know first-hand. Oh, and let's see that Madonna look!

[ssgharkness020147]

Wow. Lots of passion on this topic people. FWIW. I hate the culture. Lets take going to the bars... There is one bar in my area that I (grudegingly) go to once and a while. Its supposed to be a "club", but its just in the basement of a crappy building. All you hear is that rap **** in there, problem number on for me.

Then there are the people, oh the ****ing people in that **** hole. Every white kid in there with his hat cocked sideways trying to look "tuff", the ones that walk by me and bump in to me as I am standing still. When I look down at eminems long lost 5'5 155lb brother, he says "what the **** is your problem"? Well... Lets see shady... I'm just standing here minding my own ****ing business when your little punk ass comes walking in to me, then you have the nerve to make it out to be my fault in the most disrespectful way possible. THATS my "****ing problem". Learn some ****ing respect you little ****. I rarely have problems with people, if I bump in to you I'll apologize to you for it, and I expect the same in return. Then of course you get the inner city trash that comes in there too. Nope. I'm not even gonna start up on that subject. **** that place. **** those people. **** rap.

[h2co-pilot]

Originally Posted by dеiтайожни

CP -- I never mentioned age. I only made references (which you got) that any 25 year old would know first-hand. Oh, and let's see that Madonna look!

Well, put on your grill and come over here.