Exhaust Gasket leak and stud broke

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Easy Ed

I replaced all of mine (both sides) and it is not really bad job, just takes some time and some "grin and bare it" too when parts are in the way of getting another part removed. Examples, had to remove a O2 sensor to get to a manifold to exhaust pipe nut removed. Then I had to un-hook front drive shaft to get to another manifold to pipe nut loose. Just a bunch of small things to make the day go by before ya know it

I had all kinds of 1/2" extensions, rachets, sockets, knuckles, vise grips and so on and was able to get it done in a afternoon and evening and not had a problem since, the new manifold bolts are of a different design and should last longer, larger head and a bigger radius under the head causing less of a fracture point.

Part way down this page you can see all the parts http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=38098

Oh yeah, $2500.00 is too much in my book

Ed

I?m with Ed on this one... I?ve had to replace the studs on both my H2?s because they broke. Because they break off and usually leave some of the stud sticking out once the manifold is removed, it?s not a problem removing them.

They?d have to be pretty fukked up to pay 2500 to have them repaired by the dealer.


Mark

[cashville]

Did you use anything else besides the vise grips to remove the broken bolts?
The only thing I used was some WD40 like on 3 different days, about a week ago, I put some of it on the broken stud in order to try and have it loosen a bit...

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by cashville

Did you use anything else besides the vise grips to remove the broken bolts?
The only thing I used was some WD40 like on 3 different days, about a week ago, I put some of it on the broken stud in order to try and have it loosen a bit...

I actually used a stud remover (looks like a socket with teeth on the inside that tighten up on the stud as you turn it counterclockwise)

If you remove the manifold (you don?t always have to) it makes it easier.

If I remember correctly, they sell updated bolts/studs.

Mark

[cashville]

I checked it out, and it looks like a great tool to easily remove broken studs.
If I can't take it out tomorrow with a bigger vise grips, I'll have to order one of those...

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by cashville

I checked it out, and it looks like a great tool to easily remove broken studs.
If I can't take it out tomorrow with a bigger vise grips, I'll have to order one of those...

One suggestion... if the stud is iffy right now, don?t put a bigger set of vise grips on it.

I say that because typically if you can?t get a good hold on it, you?ll end up smoothing off the threads and then make it harder to use the stud remover.

One more trick...


If there is enough stud sticking out (which apparently there is cause you?re getting a pair of vise grips on it) get a nut that will slide over the end of the broken stud. Get someone to weld the inside of the nut to the stud and then just use a socket to get the stud out.

Just a few suggestions...


Mark

[cashville]

I've tried the bigger vise grips, but it didn't move...

I will have to try the stud remover. the thred is a little smooth now because I tried yesterday a lot of times, do you think the stud remover will work anyways?

[cashville]

btw, the one you used is identical to this right?

http://www.pipelinesupply.com/images...ud_Remover.jpg



Regards

[cashville]

I'm just going to have someone weld a nut to the bolt tomorrow... I think it will be easier that way.
tomorrow I'll post news, I hope I finally solve this problem, it's driving me mad

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by cashville

btw, the one you used is identical to this right?

http://www.pipelinesupply.com/images...ud_Remover.jpg



Regards

No, the one I use is like this...



Much slimmer, easier on...




Mark

[cashville]

Ok, I was able to take the broken bolt out with a pair of vise grips.
After that I put the new studs, and I re-used the same gasket because the only ones I could find for sale that would ship to my country were Felpro, and I heard a lot of mixed feedback, so I just re-used the gaskets.

I tightened all the bolts a first pass to 11lbs, and a second to 18lbs, like in the manual.

I noticed that where the broken bolt was, with the new bolt tightened to 18lbs, the header was still not even making contact with the manifold, so I had to tighten it really hard to get it to make contact. (It probably stayed a lot of time with the bolt broken, so it got bent out of shape)
Then, I connected the spark plug wires, and turned on the engine, but the noise is still there, A LOT more quieter now, but it's still leaking air, I can hear it.

Now, I don't know what I should do, if I should tighten all the bolts a little bit more, especially the one where the broken one was, or maybe it can be a leak from the gasket, although I don't think so.


What do you think, should I tighten the bolts a little bit more tomorrow?

[Easy Ed]

I had to double checked the torque specs and you do have them correct but while looking at the manual it did say not to use the old gaskets. I am afraid it may be the gasket that is the problem now

I would hate to see you tighten the bolts more than the 18 foot pounds and either strip out the threads in the head or break another head of a bolt off.

The call is yours and I know it is not cheap to get the gaskets sent to Portugal but I would get the new ones and do it right and hope for the best

Good luck, Ed

[cashville]

At least the last bolt will have to be tightened at more than 18lbs, because like I said, at 18lbs, there was still a gap between the header and the manifold on that one... The only bolt I have overtightened now, is that last one, that is on the place of the broken one... Maybe if I tighten that one a little bit more, it will stop making the sound, I don't know

I'm thinking like that because, if there was a gap at 18lbs, then maybe I haven't fully closed it at the torque I have on it right now, maybe a little more would close it good.
I'm afraid that it will brake with time, but if I don't overtighten that bolt, then I have a big gap that lets all the air out...

[Easy Ed]

The bolt should handle the extra torque because of the grade it is, guess it is worth a try.

Edit: max torque dry looks to be 24 to 27 foot pounds for a 8 mm 10.9 grade.

Good luck, Ed

[cashville]

I'm not even sure at how much torque the last bolt is, because it's the only bolt with bad access, and my torque wrench wouldn't fit in that place. After the others I could get a feeling of the 18lbs, and put it around that, and I did but it was not enough to close the gap. After that I tightened it a lot, because a lot was needed for the header to go back into place with no gaps.

What I'm thinking of doing tomorrow, is do a leak test and spray some wd40 around the manifold (will start with the place where the broken bolt was), and see if I get a different engine idle, just to detect the leak and make sure it's really coming from that place.

[cashville]

I couldn't wait till tomorrow, so I tightened the last bolt as much as I could, and turned on the engine. the noise was still there, so that didn't help. I then sprayed wd40, and noticed bubbling coming from the gasket at that last bolt. I turned off the engine, and unscrewed the last bolt a little, to not leave it there overtightened.
So, I guess I'm investing in a Felpro gasket. Lol.

[cashville]

btw, I didn't put anything on the used gasket, I just took it out, and put it on again. Should I have used a sealant or something?

[OrangeCrush]

Be careful over tightening those bolts. You tighten them too much and you pull the studs clean out of that head. (aluminum)

Just a suggestion.

Mark

[OrangeCrush]

Btw, DO NOT REUSE THE GASKETS!!!


Mark

[Indy]

I personally would not over tighten the bolt. If it snaps off, you are where you started. Use a high temp copper sealant on both sides of the gasket to make sure the seal is tight. Good luck.

[NJ H2]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

No, the one I use is like this...



Much slimmer, easier on...

Mark

How does one aquire 1 of these Stud removers?