GAS PRICE INCREASE...

[Klaus]

There were long lines at the gas pumps last night (police were having to direct traffic). Some stations have run dry.

The Colonial Pipeline as been restarted at 25% capacity, so that should start slowing down the prices.

Here's the story I posted on the pipline:

http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/t...1/m/7831061831

[Klaus]

Panic drives gasoline up and out

By MICHAEL E. KANELL , STACY SHELTON
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 09/01/05
Soaring prices, long lines and outright shortages returned to Atlanta gas stations Wednesday for the first time since the 1970s.

Although both major gasoline pipelines serving the area resumed limited pumping Wednesday evening, many consumers already had reacted to widespread uncertainty and panicked. Afraid there would be no gas over the holiday weekend, motorists got in line to pay historically high prices.

The threat of shortages came from hurricane-damaged refineries and pipelines without full power to pump. How much consumers compounded the problem wasn't clear.

"Atlanta's not out of gas," said Jim Tudor, president of the Georgia Association of Convenience Stores. Some stations might be out, "but it wasn't because there wasn't gas available. It was because there was a run on these stores."

Still, the hurricane's impact hit at a bad moment — when gas inventories were already low. Shortages were threatened throughout the Southeast in the aftermath of Katrina and prices reflected that.

Late Wednesday, Gov. Sonny Perdue declared a state of emergency and threatened to impose heavy fines on gasoline retailers who overcharged Georgia drivers. There is "credible evidence" of price-gouging, he said.

"When you prey upon the fears and the paranoia, it is akin to looting, and it is abominable," Perdue said at a hastily called news conference. "I'm frankly embarrassed for our state and some of our businesses that we have to do this."

From late morning to early afternoon, the highest area price for regular doubled briefly from about $2.70 a gallon to more than $5 a gallon. A BP station in McDonough hit $5.87, according to AtlantaGasPrices.com. Four dollars a gallon became common. There were numerous reports late Wednesday of stations' closing, or shutting down their pumps. Some stations capped purchases.

At a Midtown Chevron that announced a 10-gallon limit on purchases "due to the fuel shortage," Tim Gara pumped gas into his Toyota. "I knew it would be a problem with the hurricane. I didn't know it'd get to rationing."

Throughout the day, speculation zipped across airwaves and the Internet, via text messages and over phone lines. Rumors simmered around office water coolers, fueling the panic. One said state police were closing all gas stations at 4 p.m.; they didn't.

Wednesday afternoon, the governor and AAA told consumers not to panic. "Don't go out and top off your tank," Perdue said. At the same time, he also urged people to telecommute and discouraged unnecessary driving on the eve of one of the biggest travel weekends of the year.

The governor urged calm and expressed faith in market-regulated prices.

Four and a half hours later, he declared a state of emergency.

Others, including the auto club, advised sticking with travel plans.

Barbara Washington of Atlanta struggled with the confusing advice. She had planned to drive to Jackson, Miss., to check on her elderly parents. "Do I risk it, or do I just stay put? What do I do?"

Now she plans to fly.

Even the experts didn't have answers. "I don't want to scare the public to death, because I don't have a crystal ball," said Roger T. Lane, president of the Georgia Oilmen's Association, which represents distributors. "Gasoline is in tight supply."

So in a distant echo of the 1970s, consumers were unwilling to gamble on sufficient supplies.

Queues formed — and tempers flared.

Tammy Crowe of Dallas was waiting in line at a gas station in Lithia Springs when she saw another motorist pull a gun.

People had been waiting for a half-hour and were edgy when a man in a bronze car cut off a motorcyclist, Crowe said.

" 'Hey, wait a minute. I've been waiting here,' " the motorcyclist admonished the line-breaker, Crowe said. The two men began arguing.

Then the man in the car pulled a handgun out of his pocket, Crowe said. "It was big."

A gas station employee yelled, "You want to go to jail?" and pulled out a cellphone.

The man put the weapon away and said he wanted to get back in line.

"No," the employee said. "Leave." He did.

Crowe heard a woman who was waiting say, "It ain't worth my life to get gas. We just need to pray."

There were at least two pieces of good news.

In an unprecedented action, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency waived pollution-reduction rules for gas in all 50 states.

And by evening, both major gasoline pipelines to Atlanta were pumping again.

Alpharetta-based Colonial Pipeline Co. was pumping at 25 percent to 35 percent of capacity.

Plantation Pipe Line Co. also started pumping at 25 percent.

The pipelines had gone down when they lost electrical power at pumping stations hit by the hurricane.

Getting the flow back up to speed is critical, said Jonathan Cogan, spokesman for the Energy Information Administration. "This has affected everywhere along the chain, from the product to consumers. It doesn't look good."

The start-up by Colonial might seem modest, but it may help cushion the area from the worst effects, said James Williams, chief economist of WTRG, an energy consulting company.

"This will go a long way toward getting things back to normal," he said. "It's like one lane that gets started after an accident closed all four."

Of course, a working pipeline is pointless without a product to pump — and many of the Gulf's refineries still are not working. But as the storm cleanup continues, many should be able to pump out the product they had produced before the hurricane, Williams said.

"We don't anticipate running out," said Michael Barrett, a spokesman for California-based Chevron. "There is enough gasoline coming into the market" from storage tanks in the meantime.

Metro Atlantans found small ways to cope.

MARTA ridership was up, officials said. Georgia State Patrol troopers were asked to cut their driving by 25 percent. And consumers hit a gas price Web site so hard that AtlantaGasPrices.com was often too clogged to access.

To Atlantans fretting about a weekend trip, the AAA offered reassurance.

"As long as you are on the interstate system, we don't think you will have any problems getting gasoline," said Gregg Laskoski, AAA spokesman. "We are not aware of any reason for people to cancel their travel plans."

— Staff writers Bill Torpy, Craig

Schneider and Rhonda Cook contributed to this article.

[VTSTOMPER]

Yea - I would not want some toilet pulling a gun on me at the gas station!

[Dan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by desertfox:
Until you understand geopolitics and WHY America is at war, you should shut the **** up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[slgcmg]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by desertfox:
Until you understand geopolitics and WHY America is at war, you should shut the **** up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>



There sure are some angry/sensative people here.


I voted for Bush in the last term because there was no one else to vote for, and because I am a republican. What I meant about spending billions of dollars was that some of that money could have been used to build more oil refiniries here in the states so we would not have to be at the mercy of foreign countries that really don't like us anyways. I am not a liberal by any means what-so-ever. I am a republican and will always be, however I do not like what has taken place since Bush's term. Granted he had to clean up a lot of Clinton's mess, but we had the money to do that and chose to give it to another country to rebuild, when all that is going to happen is it being blown back up by suicide bombers. Iraq doesn't scare me but Korea does.

[TBDAugs]

Building a new refinery is no simply thing. Even if the money is available, and there has been since the last refinery was built back in the...late 70's early 80's I think...there oios still a lot of local activism to prevent it from happening.

Not saying big oil isn't making new money all up and down the line, but to blame them for all the world's woes without owning up to non-oil's contributions to the supply and demand equation is naive.

I bought an H2 because I care less about saving gas..that being said, lately to work in my CTS-V I keep it in neutral and coast down the hills to the office. Trying to make it thru a week without having to buy a tank.

Just glad to see around here not a lot of idiocy trying to fill up while 'the gettin's good'. That short term mentality will only encourage the middlemen Stop and Rob gas stations to shove price elasticity into the rigid zone...

One more thing...lot's of families and spenders are employed by US energy sector. I still believe Reagan had it right with trickle down, and disposable income is what's keeping this economy despite high energy prices and the war in Iraq.

My 2 cents

OilPatchAugs

[H3OH]

Thought you all would get a kick out of this...


I Can't Afford My Gasoline

[HummerNewbie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TBDAugs:
OilPatchAugs </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just curious, with sig line, what do you do?

[TBDAugs]

I run a group of small businesses that supply high tech materials to our med sized oil and gas equipment supplier parent. US$5 billion in 2004 revs.

PCD/HSLNAugs

[HummerNewbie]

Very cool. I might PM you if you don't mind to learn more about your group of businesses. I am involved in the oil industry from the sidelines and we are talking about designing a new well monitoring system at my day job company.

[mr.jeepster]

I voted for Bush in the last term because there was no one else to vote for, and because I am a republican. What I meant about spending billions of dollars was that some of that money could have been used to build more oil refiniries here in the states so we would not have to be at the mercy of foreign countries that really don't like us anyways. I am not a liberal by any means what-so-ever.

Not a liberal, perhaps. But a ****ing moron? Definitely. The government doesn't build refineries. This is not a socialist country. Private busiuness builds them WHEN the leaf-lickers allow it. They don't. So they haven't. So here we are. A smiley face at the end of a moronic sentence does not disguise or excuse the ignorance of the statement. I'll stay out of the box. You just keep fishin'. *******.

[Hart1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BP is a true "GOUGER" and ought to be taken to it's knees for doing so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let ’Em Gouge: A Defense of Price Gouging

by Jerry Taylor & Peter VanDoren
Jerry Taylor is director of natural resource studies at the Cato Institute, and Peter VanDoren is editor of Regulation, the Cato Review of Business and Government.

Gasoline prices have gone up from a national average of $1.22 a year ago to a startling $1.71 today. The industry says it's supply and demand. Consumer activists say it's gouging. Who's right? Well, both are.

The supply and demand explanation is straightforward. On top of the Venezuelan labor strike and war jitters in the Middle East, the winter in the northeast — a region that relies heavily on heating oil — has been unusually cold. Refineries have accordingly been making heating oil rather than gasoline, so gasoline supplies are relatively scarce. Scarce gasoline = rising prices.

But what constitutes price gouging? To many, "gouging" is selling something at the highest level that the market will bear regardless of production costs. By that definition, we are indeed being gouged at the pump. Gasoline prices have risen faster than the price of crude oil.

But pricing goods and services at the highest level that the market will bear is what everyone in a capitalist economy does every day. Moreover, it happens regardless of whether prices are rising or falling. Oil companies were trying just as hard to charge what the market would bear in December 2001 when gasoline was $1.13 a gallon as they are now. Given present scarcities, however, the market can bear a higher price today than yesterday.

Why the constant government investigations only when prices are rising? Because to many, pricing significantly above cost is immoral and politicians and the press are in the business of finding immoral dragons to slay.

What has really set the moralizers off this time is the revelation that the gouging is often both tightly targeted and coldly calculated. The industry calls it "zone pricing." Essentially, oil companies examine small geographic areas, consider how much retail competition exists, estimate the willingness of motorists to look elsewhere for gasoline, and price accordingly. Consumer activists are aghast that oil companies would go so far to extract every penny they can out of a gallon of gas.

Price discounting, however, clearly benefits the consumers who receive the discounts. But how about those consumers who pay prices higher than the discount? Economists of all stripes who've studied the effect of differential pricing based on the willingness of consumers to search for lower prices have concluded that consumers overall are likely to benefit if sales are higher with price discrimination than without it. That's because those consumers less sensitive to prices pay more of the fixed costs of doing business.

Regardless, most people view the practice of zone pricing in gasoline markets as unfairly taking advantage of consumers. Yet many of those same people — who will curse a blue streak if you put them in front of a camera and ask them about "Big Oil" — are as we speak putting their houses on the market and enthusiastically gouging the living daylights out of anyone looking for a new home. And what's more, they're zone pricing! Surprisingly, however, no one ever rages against real estate price gouging. In fact, the opposite is the case. Business reporters gush about returns and politicians pledge to do whatever it takes to keep the real estate bubble afloat.

So is price gouging okay if you're the gouger but not the gougee? It would appear so. But in reality, price gouging — like spinach — may be unappealing at first bite but it's good for everyone in the long run. Gougers are sending an important signal to market actors that something is scarce and that profits are available to those who produce or sell that something. Gouging thus sets off an economic chain reaction that ultimately remedies the shortages that led to the gouging in the first place. Without such signals, we'd never know how to efficiently invest our resources. Moreover, we'd have no idea what to conserve. It's no exaggeration to state that, without such price signals, our economy would look like Cuba's.

There's a catch, however. If the government artificially restricts supply, those price signals will fall on deaf ears. Local zoning ordinances, for instance, often prevent real estate developers from answering the call from desperate home-buyers. They also frequently prevent new service stations from popping up to challenge the local micro-monopoly.

Blame not the price gouger. Blame the government that won't let the price gouger do his job.

This article originally appeared on NRO on April 1, 2003.

[JMV1210]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by desertfox:
I voted for Bush in the last term because there was no one else to vote for, and because I am a republican. What I meant about spending billions of dollars was that some of that money could have been used to build more oil refiniries here in the states so we would not have to be at the mercy of foreign countries that really don't like us anyways. I am not a liberal by any means what-so-ever.

Not a liberal, perhaps. But a ****ing moron? Definitely. The government doesn't build refineries. This is not a socialist country. Private busiuness builds them WHEN the leaf-lickers allow it. They don't. So they haven't. So here we are. A smiley face at the end of a moronic sentence does not disguise or excuse the ignorance of the statement. I'll stay out of the box. You just keep fishin'. *******. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So if you lift up your dress, I bet you have a snatch under there, you little girl. Get in the box, fucixx new fish. You and your 50 posts………..pathetic

[TBDAugs]

Price gouging: great article, thanks for posting it

BTW if you have a Maverick or Flying J in your area sign up for their club card. It's free and you get a 2 cent per gallon discount at the pump.

Regular unleaded here with club card discount is $2.63.

UtahAugs

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hum2:
BP is a true "GOUGER" and ought to be taken to it's knees for doing so.

Here in NE they warned of a 10-15 cent hike next week...we got 50 cents plus the same day from BP. I will stop buying gas from them, and I hope everyone else stops as well. BP....what does that stand for....Big Pricks?

Ric </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't go as far as saying BP is a gouger but rather the person that owns that particular station. If BP does not own that station but they have given the right to the owner to use there sign then I bet BP will take care of that person or persons.

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HummerNewbie:
Very cool. I might PM you if you don't mind to learn more about your group of businesses. I am involved in the oil industry from the sidelines and we are talking about designing a new well monitoring system at my day job company. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

TBDAugs: I would like to learn about your group of businesses also.

HummerNewbie: Please fill me in on your well monitoring system aswell. If you are planning this you will probably know that there is/was supposed to be a convention at the end of october for petroleum equipment. The company I work for has been involved in the petroleum industry since the '20's and I would be really interested in your project.

PM me.

[mr.jeepster]

[QUO
So if you lift up your dress, I bet you have a snatch under there, you little girl. Get in the box, fucixx new fish. You and your 50 posts………..pathetic[/quote]

Pathetic is having nothing better to do with your life than post here on this forum. I don't have many posts, true. I have a life. And I understand who builds refineries. And you, sir, are still quite the little moron. Have a nice day. Thanks for keeping me laughing.

BTW - You shouldn't be so interested in the snatches of little girls. You'll end up in prison. Now why don't you get off the computer and go for a drive? Maybe we'll meet on the trail and I'll buy you a beer.

[Dan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by desertfox:
Not a liberal, perhaps. But a ****ing moron? Definitely. .... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This coming from someone who can't even figure out how to use the quote tool.

I'll have fries with that.

[JMV1210]

[/quote] BTW - You shouldn't be so interested in the snatches of little girls. You'll end up in prison. Now why don't you get off the computer and go for a drive? Maybe we'll meet on the trail and I'll buy you a beer.[/quote]

Buy me a beer? Split personality?

[HummerNewbie]

Have the gas stations around any one else been running out? There were rumors going around yesterday and I think a lot of people here went into panic mode. They could remember a year ago around each hurricane when you couldn't find gas around here so everyone went to fill up last night. I just happened to have filled up earlier in the afternoon but a friend left my house about 10:30 last night had to go to 6 stations before he could get any. Wouldn't have stopped but was about out anyway. What is it like everywhere else?