Canada's Army picks the G-Wagon

[Ed G.]

Hell, they have to look good when they retreat don't they.

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thai:
US Recon uses G-wagen, not H1. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DUH!!!!

US Recon driving a Hummer? You dumb chink.

They obviously have to blend in with the populus. Kind of obvious they would be recognized if they were in a Hummer.

Did Benzworld kick your stupid ass out and now you're looking for a new tunnel to burrow in?


LOL! What a stupid child.

[tanklizard]

Okay, where to start;
I’ve been in the Army and National Guard for over 17 years and just got back from a year long tour in Iraq this November so I can probably shed some light on this subject.

Right off the bat my biggest problem with the armored G-Wagon is this line:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> A total of 802 G-Wagons and 160 amour protection systems are being supplied to the CF by Mercedes Benz Canada </div></BLOCKQUOTE>.
Armor protection systems, this means the G-Wagon is an up-armored vehicle not an armored vehicle. An up-armored vehicle has had an aftermarket armor kit added to it while an armored vehicle is designed and factory built with armor from the get-go. Why is this important, because a vehicle with an armor kit will never provide as much protection as a vehicle that has been designed to be armored. An armor kit will always have holes and gaps that armor could not be fit around because the original vehicle wasn’t designed with armor in mind. A factory armored vehicle has these gaps eliminated in the design process.

Additionally, a factory armored vehicle has had the rest of the vehicle beefed up to support the armor, up-armored vehicles normally do not. We used two types of Humvee gun trucks in Iraq. The first was the M1025, basically an unarmored scout Humvee that we added an armor kit to. The engine and suspension just couldn’t take the weight. The truck would barely move and every time you hit a pothole you thought something was going to fall off. Here’s a good shot of a 1025, the green is the original truck and the tan is the added armor.


The second type was the M1114. This beast came from the factory already armored and had a more powerful turbo-diesel and beefed up suspension. This was truck people fought to have. The armor was light years ahead of the 1025 (what a death trap.) Here’s a picture of my “Green Machine.”


I didn’t see any mention of upgrading the G-Wagon’s engine or suspension in the article. If you add a ton of armor and leave the rest of the truck alone you’re asking for breakdown after breakdown.

Additionally, adding all that armor raises the vehicle’s center of gravity making it more prone to rollovers. We had this problem with our Humvees, people would drive them like cars, get stupid and roll them over. With a shorter wheelbase and less width the G-Wagon would be more susceptible to rollovers than a Humvee.

Yes the Army is planning to replace the Humvee with a vehicle that will be designed with armor from the start. We’ve known about the underside of the M1114 trapping the effects of a mine blast from day it was fielded . I don’t see where a G-Wagon underside would provide any advantage, it’s wide and flat as well. There’s an old saying “perfect is the enemy of good enough.” If we waited for a perfect vehicle it would never come and we couldn’t afford it if it did. The M1114 is good enough to save lives in Iraq every day. And guess what, a little internet research finds that the G-Wagon is an interim armored vehicle soon to be replaced by a new APV (armored patrol vehicle.) To quote the article:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But it was obvious from the outset that G-wagon’s add- on amour would give insufficient protection from landmines or improvised explosive devices. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trying to compare a G-Wagon to a Humvee is like comparing a Humvee to a jeep or even a land rover, apples to oranges. The Humvee replaced much more than the jeep, it replaced several light vehicles (gamma goat, mule, etc.) with a single, common vehicle. All the G-wagon and jeep can do is haul 4 people and a light load of equipment. The Humvee can haul up to 4,400 lbs., evacuate 4 wounded soldiers on stretchers, and move troops.

In Iraq, the army as already started replacing the M1114 in some of its roles with two, new, specialized vehicles.

MP units in heavy (read that tank) divisions have been receiving the M1117 ASV (armored security vehicle.) It’s basically an armored car with heavier armor and weapons (a ma deuce and MK-19) than the M1114. It also weighs more, costs a lot more, and can’t move troops or equipment like a Humvee. Here’s a pic I took of one at LSA Anaconda:


The second vehicle the army is using is the RG-31 Mine Protected Vehicle. It’s a South African armored car that is better protected than the M1114 because it has heavier armor and a boat shaped hull to deflect explosive blasts. Engineers use these during route clearance when they sweep the roads for IED’s. Saw several in theater but didn’t take any pics so here’s the one from the website:


The engineers are also using another armored vehicle to do route clearance, the buffalo (American made.) This truck isn’t replacing the Humvee but I thought I’d show it to you anyways. This monster weighs 23 tons (heavy, heavy armor.) and has a long hydraulic arm with a camera and rake at the end of it. Whenever they see something suspicious, they’ll drive up and poke it with the arm. If it’s an IED and it goes off, they’ve got a good 20ft of standoff space and 23 tons of armor to protect them. Here’s a pic of one on my FOB:


And last but not least, I’d like to address this post:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">US Recon uses G-wagen, not H1. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
BULL****!!!
United States reconnaissance units use either the M1114, a Stryker, or the walk. They do not use G-Wagons in any way shape or form. All I see is a picture of an American soldier standing in front of a G-Wagon. How did you come to your conclusion from this picture? How do you know he isn’t just posing in front of a G-wagon? I learned a long time ago to keep my mouth shut when I don’t know what I’m talking about. You should do the same.

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tanklizard:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the first time I've witnessed an American Soldier sniper a Charlie on teh web.

Can somebody say OWNED in Thai?????

[MovinH2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
G-Wagon brings teh suck </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

X2

[DDWH]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MovinH2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
G-Wagon brings teh suck </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

X2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

X3

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DennisAJC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tanklizard:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the first time I've witnessed an American Soldier sniper a Charlie on teh web. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That brings teh funnay.

[TXSUT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thai:
did you know that a replacement of the Humvee is in progress??

This is FACT </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The bottom line that a lot of posters in this thread have miss is "So the phuck what if it's going to be replaced?" We all know that it won't be replaced by the G-wagon, so what point does that make in defense of your argument?

What kind of military would we have if it wasn't always looking to improve its equipment?

These threads sure do bring the ignorance.

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tanklizard:

BULL****!!!
United States reconnaissance units use either the M1114, a Stryker, or the walk. They do not use G-Wagons in any way shape or form. All I see is a picture of an American soldier standing in front of a G-Wagon. How did you come to your conclusion from this picture? How do you know he isn’t just posing in front of a G-wagon? I learned a long time ago to keep my mouth shut when I don’t know what I’m talking about. You should do the same. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BUWAHAHAHA!!!!! Thai gets Pwn3d by someone that has first hand expert experience.
Thanks for the sniper shot to his head, Tankliz.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DDWH:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MovinH2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
Thai brings teh suck </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

X2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

X3 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>fissed

[Thai]

Last post: (5th paragraph) December 2003 Article

Stewart & Stevenson Tactical Vehicle Systems, LP (TVS), a manufacturer of medium tactical vehicles for the U.S. Army, announced that it has entered into an agreement with DaimlerChrysler, which gives TVS the exclusive right to market the Mercedes- Benz Military Gelandewagen (G-Wagen) series of vehicles to United States Government authorities, including all federal, state, and local government agencies.

The G-Wagen military series includes the Open Wagon, Van, Station Wagon, Light 4x4 Tactical Wheeled Vehicle, and a Chassis with Cab. Since 1979, more than 60,000 of these vehicles have been sold to military customers worldwide. The G-Wagen has been continuously upgraded with the latest in automotive off- road and on-road technology.

The G-Wagen provides superb mobility, reliability, and economy, both off- road and on-road. It optimally fulfills its intended mission as a vehicle for transporting personnel or loads at a maximum two metric tons, and for towing trailers or artillery.

Designed for air landings, the vehicle can be transported easily as an external load below a helicopter or as an internal load for aircraft, including the U.S. Marine Corps V-22 Osprey. It can also be air-dropped by parachute.

The G-Wagen is offered in several armored versions, with protection ranging from small arms to mine blast protection. It has performed successfully for German special forces in Afghanistan and U.S. Marine Corps Force Recon Units in the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts. Powered by a modern turbocharged common rail diesel engine, the G-Wagen military series meets the latest requirements of modern armed forces with respect to fuel efficiency and exhaust emissions.

The G-Wagen series complements the existing FMTV product line made by TVS, which includes 15 active variants and weight capacities ranging between 2.5 and 11 tons. Planned FMTV models under development will extend the product range to 15 metric tons in an 8 X 8 configuration.

Another source: (http://force-reconnaissance.biography.ms/)

Interim Fast Attack Vehicle (IFAV)
These are deployed and used by Force Recon. Force Recon used to operate a fleet of Chenowith Fast Attack Vehicles (FAV), popularized by the Navy SEALs as the 'black dune buggy.' However, this vehicle lacked cargo capacity and firepower, so Force Recon moved to a militarized Mercedes-Benz G-Class (Geländewagen) 290 GDT diesel 4x4, a much more traditional 'Jeep' type truck. The IFAV is considered "an alternative to walking," though it has numerous defensive weapons, including a Mk 19 automatic 40mm grenade launcher. This vehicle is manufactured by MAGNA STEYR (Austria) for Mercedes-Benz (Germany).

[CO Hummer]

ZeroThailerance brings teh SUCK.

[Mr. I - Man]

Hey Thai, get ready to be owned again!

Read this dipsh*t

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...rps-jeep_x.htm

Looks like the Corps chose an American vehicle for Recon.

Take your G- wagen( G stands for Black Forest "Ghey") and stick it.

[DRTYFN]

Thai = DEE DEE DEE Of The Year.

[h2co-pilot]

Holy Turdtumbler! that bitch is still here?!!!

[PARAGON]

Oh, it get's worse. That article is from like 2002 or 2003. The Marine Corps IS NOT US special forces per Thai's comment about dude in the picture, and dude is not a Marine. The Marine Corps evaluated it for use starting in 1999 or 2000.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">QUANTICO TO RECEIVE CORPS' NEWEST SUV

By Sgt. Michael Niman

MARINE CORPS BASE QUANTICO, Va. (June 16) - Though the Marine Corps procured the Interim Fast Attack Vehicle as a replacement for the M-151 Jeep in the Fleet Marine Force, Quantico Marines are now getting their hands on one to evaluate it in a base support role.

Quantico's range control section will soon receive the Corps' newest tactical utility vehicle and become the first non-tactical unit in the Marine Corps to receive and evaluate the IFAV.

The vehicle is one of 62 the Marine Corps contracted for last year from Advanced Vehicle Systems, of Washington, D.C., who partnered with Daimler/Chrysler for rapid manufacture of the Mercedes-Benz 290 GDT long wheel-base vehicle.

Of the IFAVs produced by the Corps, 24 were given to II Marine Expeditionary Force in Camp Lejeune, NC., 24 to I MEF in Camp Pendleton, Calif., and 12 were given to III MEF in Okinawa, Japan. Marine Corps Systems Command retained the remaining two IFAVs for testing and configuration management.

MarCorSysCom Commanding General BGen. James Feigley is scheduled to hand over keys to one of the remaining IFAVs to BGen. Leif Hendrickson, base commanding general, 11:45 a.m. June 19 in front of Lejeune Hall.


"From discussions and meetings by MCCDC and MarCorSysCom senior officers, not unlike the way the Corps started in Tun Tavern, the idea came up that the commercial-based IFAV might have good utility in less tactical base support operations," said LtCol. Thomas F. Manley, Program Manager for Transportation, MarCorSysCom.

"The thinking behind it was, since it was designed as an aggressive off-road sport utility vehicle, it would probably better suited for some of the rougher terrains around base than the vehicles currently in use," said Manley.

"We use four-wheel-drive vehicles to aid personnel in training areas - but sometimes they get stuck," said Sgt. Gerald Spilatro, who is one of three range control Marines recently trained to operate the IFAV.

The range control Marines trained extensively for one week learning maintenance and practicing driving on hardball, unimproved gravel roads and rough off-road areas.

"With an IFAV in two-wheel drive, our instructor easily got through areas we frequently get our Dodge Rams stuck in," said Spilatro.

"When there is heavy rain, there are certain roads that we have to stay off, but with the IFAV we can go anywhere, if it is raining or not," he added.

It won't hold the M-19 40mm grenade launcher or the M2 .50 caliber machine gun, like some of its relatives in the FMF, but Spilatro believes the IFAV will prove to be a valuable asset to the Marine Corps in non-tactical roles just as in tactical missions.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Oh, it get's worse. That article is from like 2002 or 2003. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
BUWAHAHAHA!!!!! I was so dead on about this turd being a DEE DEE DEE!!!

[TootsSUT]

I think he's kinda cute.

[Alan06SUT]

That guy is jack bauer from 24, I told you!

[Racer-X]

You guys DO realize your scrapping with a guy who advertises that he owns a Toyota Corolla in his sig line....right?