diesel

[Wisha Haddan H3]

That's one good thing about the I-5 ... it has 2 torque peaks in the most used parts of the power band (2600 & 4800 rpm). HP peaks at 5600.

Here's a chart of the 3.5 and 3.7 L engines for comparison with the Liberty's CRD

[-=Mac=-]

Thanks for posting those!! The lack of horsepower explains why the Liberty wasn't much fun on the quick highway run, especially with the auto-tranny but that torque should make it capable for wheeling.

-Mac

[f5fstop]

You can show all the torque charts for every diesel made, make all the wishes you want, but unless the US market changes, the costs of installing a diesel in the H3 for the US/Canadian market is not worthwhile at this time. Someday in the future, it might change, but marketing research shows, diesels are not wanted at this time.

[BEST 4x4xFAR]

Originally Posted by f5fstop

You can show all the torque charts for every diesel made, make all the wishes you want, but unless the US market changes, the costs of installing a diesel in the H3 for the US/Canadian market is not worthwhile at this time. Someday in the future, it might change, but marketing research shows, diesels are not wanted at this time.

Silly MAC, don't you know that as an enthusiasts you make up less than 1% of GMs customers, how many yuppies looking for something intimidating to drive (with a name that they feel gives them prestige) care about the virtues of a diesel? Now these buyers will buy a V8 in a heartbeat, cause everyone "needs" more power you know..

P.S. -- I'm with you MAC, I want a nice turbo diesel under the hood..

[Huck BB62]

I don't want an inline 5 diesel. I don't want a four banger. I want a six cylinder dmax. It's a GM company, and it wouldn't be that hard. Yeah, the H3 would cost $5k more but all I can say is this: H1 Alpha.

It would make a profound vehicle. I'd sacrifice some of the handling to get the solid axle up front too. You know, that brings this to mind, how cool would it be to have a portal driven front axle with a locker?!? Yeah, that's what I want:

H3 with 6cyl. dmax
6 speed baby Allison
14 bolt rear end with e-locker
Portal driven abbreviated front axle with e-locker
4:1 tcase
35's, stock
Removeable rear seat
Shifter on the column to give me back my console for the ham radio and cup holders

There, that's a long way towards the perfect H3 Alpha.

About there not being a market for the diesel? Yeah, right, if they did it right, they'd sell 'em like hotcakes. They're misidentifying their market. For cryin' out loud, people are putting $1000 ROOF RACKS on their vehicles!

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by f5fstop

You can show all the torque charts for every diesel made, make all the wishes you want, but unless the US market changes, the costs of installing a diesel in the H3 for the US/Canadian market is not worthwhile at this time. Someday in the future, it might change, but marketing research shows, diesels are not wanted at this time.

I realize it's all about the marketplace ... but it's fun to talk about

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

I don't want an inline 5 diesel. I don't want a four banger. I want a six cylinder dmax. It's a GM company, and it wouldn't be that hard.

GM does not, nor has it ever owned Isuzu. It did own somewhere between 7 and 10 percent at one time, but sold all their shares earlier this year. It still has an agreement with Isuzu in regard to the purchase of Isuzu engines, and there is still some agreement with the sale and service of their vehicles (or else those Isuzu vehicles sitting at my work location have been forgotten ).

In fact, I believe Toyota purchased about 5 percent of Isuzu right after GM sold their shares.

[-=Mac=-]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

I realize it's all about the marketplace ... but it's fun to talk about

Agreed!! As Jeep starts to drop Bluetec engines into their assorted lineup, it'll be interesting to see if the market for diesel powered SUVs develops. The Liberty first, then the Grand Cherokee... rumour has it the Wrangler will be next. I would rather see GM lead than follow...

-Mac

[-=Mac=-]

6 cylinder Duramax is an Isuzu motor? Is the engine use arrangement like Cummins with Dodge?

-Mac

Originally Posted by f5fstop

GM does not, nor has it ever owned Isuzu.

[Huck BB62]

Duramax is made in Ohio, by folks like you and I. Things I don't know would fill an encyclopedia, but the internet is helpful....

1971GM signed a capital agreement with Isuzu.1972KB pickup trucks first shipped to the U.S.A. under the Chevrolet LUV name.1974Gemini, the first car jointly developed with GM under the world-car concept, was introduced in the Japanese market.1983GM and Isuzu established GM Egypt jointly with local investors.1984Shipment of Gemini R-Car (Chevrolet Spectrum) commenced.1987IBC Vehicles Ltd. was set up to manufacture commercial vehicles in the U.K. as a joint venture between GM and Isuzu.1989GM and Isuzu jointly established Isuzu-General Motors Australia Ltd. to import, assemble and market Isuzu vehicles in Australia.1994Production of NPR gasoline powered trucks started at the GM Janesville Plant in Wisconsin.1995Production of Hombre pickups jointly developed with GM for U.S. market started at the GM Shreveport Plant in Louisiana.1996Production of medium-duty trucks with Isuzu cabs started at the GM Janesville Plant.1997Isuzu Motors Polska Sp. z o.o. was established in Poland to assemble diesel engines for Adam Opel AG in Germany.
Isuzu Thailand started the OEM supply of Isuzu TFR pickups to GM Thailand.1998In the U.S.A., DMAX, Ltd. was set up jointly by Isuzu and GM to manufacture diesel engines.1999GM raised its share of equity in Isuzu to 49.0% from 37.5%.2000Production of 6.6-liter direct-injection diesel started at DMAX, Ltd.
GM and Isuzu jointly established General Motors Isuzu Commercial Truck, LLC for sales and marketing of GM/Isuzu commercial vehicles in the U.S.A.2001GM and Isuzu agreed to start consigned-basis production of Isuzu one-ton pickups at GM Thailand.2002All-new Isuzu one-ton pickups, jointly developed by GM and Isuzu, debuted in Thai market as "Isuzu D-Max."2003GM's share of Isuzu's capital was altered from 49% to 12%.
Isuzu and GM established a new joint venture company called GMI Diesel Engineering Ltd. (GMIDEL) for powertrain systems.
Production of 1-ton pickup truck for general export started at GM Thailand.2004Supply of CKD to GM India for multi-purpose vehicle started.

The DMAX venture is 60 percent owned by Isuzu Motors and 40 percent owned by General Motors and involves an investment of $320 million in this engine launch. Though no technical details have been released, the new 6.6 L engine is said to offer significant improvements in performance characteristics, fuel economy and emissions over the current GM diesel.

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

Duramax is made in Ohio, by folks like you and I. Things I don't know would fill an encyclopedia, but the internet is helpful....

1971GM signed a capital agreement with Isuzu.1972KB pickup trucks first shipped to the U.S.A. under the Chevrolet LUV name.1974Gemini, the first car jointly developed with GM under the world-car concept, was introduced in the Japanese market.1983GM and Isuzu established GM Egypt jointly with local investors.1984Shipment of Gemini R-Car (Chevrolet Spectrum) commenced.1987IBC Vehicles Ltd. was set up to manufacture commercial vehicles in the U.K. as a joint venture between GM and Isuzu.1989GM and Isuzu jointly established Isuzu-General Motors Australia Ltd. to import, assemble and market Isuzu vehicles in Australia.1994Production of NPR gasoline powered trucks started at the GM Janesville Plant in Wisconsin.1995Production of Hombre pickups jointly developed with GM for U.S. market started at the GM Shreveport Plant in Louisiana.1996Production of medium-duty trucks with Isuzu cabs started at the GM Janesville Plant.1997Isuzu Motors Polska Sp. z o.o. was established in Poland to assemble diesel engines for Adam Opel AG in Germany.
Isuzu Thailand started the OEM supply of Isuzu TFR pickups to GM Thailand.1998In the U.S.A., DMAX, Ltd. was set up jointly by Isuzu and GM to manufacture diesel engines.1999GM raised its share of equity in Isuzu to 49.0% from 37.5%.2000Production of 6.6-liter direct-injection diesel started at DMAX, Ltd.
GM and Isuzu jointly established General Motors Isuzu Commercial Truck, LLC for sales and marketing of GM/Isuzu commercial vehicles in the U.S.A.2001GM and Isuzu agreed to start consigned-basis production of Isuzu one-ton pickups at GM Thailand.2002All-new Isuzu one-ton pickups, jointly developed by GM and Isuzu, debuted in Thai market as "Isuzu D-Max."2003GM's share of Isuzu's capital was altered from 49% to 12%.
Isuzu and GM established a new joint venture company called GMI Diesel Engineering Ltd. (GMIDEL) for powertrain systems.
Production of 1-ton pickup truck for general export started at GM Thailand.2004Supply of CKD to GM India for multi-purpose vehicle started.

The DMAX venture is 60 percent owned by Isuzu Motors and 40 percent owned by General Motors and involves an investment of $320 million in this engine launch. Though no technical details have been released, the new 6.6 L engine is said to offer significant improvements in performance characteristics, fuel economy and emissions over the current GM diesel.

That's nice that you know so much about DMAX, but your original statement was incorrect:
"Originally Posted by Huck BB62
I don't want an inline 5 diesel. I don't want a four banger. I want a six cylinder dmax. It's a GM company, and it wouldn't be that hard."

There is a quite a difference between a "joint venture" and a company that GM "owns." GM had a joint venture with Toyota too, does that mean GM owned Toyota.
Now, continue to dream on about a GM diesel in a H3, since you have probably sepent a day googling Isuzu and GM, I just spent two minutes on the future production charts for GM vehicles (to make sure nothing changed in the last week) and guess what....NO diesel for the H3.

I can google too:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
GM sells Isuzu shares for $300 million
Long expected, GM just anounced that they were selling off their Isuzu shares.

Snippet: TOKYO -- Cash-strapped General Motors Corp. is selling the shares it holds in truckmaker Isuzu to two Japanese trading companies and a bank for about $300 million to fund its turnaround in North America, the U.S. automaker said Tuesday.

Disposing of the Isuzu stake marks the latest retreat for a company besieged by staggering losses, labor problems and mounting competition from Asian automakers. The move also highlights GM's rapid pullout from Japanese partnerships it has built since the 1970s.
GM said last month that it was selling the 7.9 percent stake it held in Isuzu Motors Ltd., or about 90 million shares, but will keep its business partnership with Isuzu, such as joint development and manufacturing of trucks and diesel engines.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toyota-Isuzu alliance

Toyota and Isuzu have signed a memorandum of understanding stating they will start studying the synergic effects of business collaboration.

Not sure where this might lead, as it seems to me that Isuzu, from a product standpoint, offers pretty much the same types of offerings as does Toyota. In any event this is good news for Isuzu I would think, as on the surface, this appears to be more of a benefit for them than for Toyota.

Here's a news update: Toyota buys 5.9% of Isuzu.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

GM also has an agreement in place with Fiat to purchase some of their smaller diesels for use in small vehicles and trucks. This was left over from the recent buyout GM performed to get out of purchasing Fiat.

GM is also working on their own diesels that will meet ALL us state emissions regulations, and they are working on this issue without Isuzu. Go back in time, and GM at one time made some of the best truck diesels in the world....Detroit Diesel Allison.
(GM was also responsible for killing the diesel market in the US with the infamous small truck diesel in the 70s that was a POS.

Now, I'm done talking about diesels and I'll let all you guys who want diesels to either dream on, or purchase a Jeep. For some, it might be the best thing that could happen (for you and the forum).

[Huck BB62]

fstop, seems like you're in that Midol mood. What's your beef with diesels?

Thanks for taking the time to google more stuff for us. Not to pick too much, I don't google because they store their searches indefinitely. What that means yet, who knows, just going with my gut.

Spend a day searching? More like fifteen seconds. C'mon, you think I'm that involved in this krap? It would appear that you've spent a lot more time than that, I appreciate the effort.

OK, so it's not a GM company so much anymore. Big deal. The engine's made in Ohio still right?

Like I said before, if people don't say what they want, they'll be stuck with what they get.... period.

It's my guess that you're not done talking about diesels yet.....

[3Hummer]

I don't think a diesel a would be a bad idea.... I would'nt want one in my car though becuase the problem with it down here where I live is theres only like 2 gas stations that have diesel within 30 miles of me! If there's a bunch of a gas stations that have diesel it be a great idea, but diesel fuel is diminishing in gas stations quite alot, you usually only find it often on the highways now.

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

fstop, seems like you're in that Midol mood. What's your beef with diesels? I don't hate diesels. If I needed to tow a fifth wheel or something similar, I would purchase a Duramax in a flash. I don't think for small SUVs or cars they are logical at this time. One, the price of diesel fuel is about .60 more than gasoline; two, diesel options with their stronger axles and transmissions costs a lot more; thus, not logical in this day and age. In addition, like I have been trying to say, why wish for something that probably will not happen due to market research; at least at this time.
You have a small minority of people on this forum, which in itself is a very small minority of H3 owners, who want diesels. I prefer a V8 for possible better fuel economy, more torque, and more power for pulling a trailer, if required. Also, easier to find fuel. As 3Hummer stated, service stations where he lives are doing away with diesel, same here. Some are converting their diesel pumps to E85 (a wasted product, but that is for another discussion). So, it appears if I need diesel in a month or two, I would have to drive approx. 10 miles out of my way to get fuel. Great money savings....

Thanks for taking the time to google more stuff for us. Not to pick too much, I don't google because they store their searches indefinitely. What that means yet, who knows, just going with my gut. Actually, I use MSN search...google sucks, in my opinion, but it has become a work.
Spend a day searching? More like fifteen seconds. C'mon, you think I'm that involved in this krap? It would appear that you've spent a lot more time than that, I appreciate the effort.
OK, so it's not a GM company so much anymore. Big deal. The engine's made in Ohio still right? At this time, the present 6.6L is made in Ohio. But, will this change in 2010?

Like I said before, if people don't say what they want, they'll be stuck with what they get.... period. Then get about 50K people to write GM about a diesel, but again I say, marketing research at this time says a diesel, in this market is not something GM wants to invest in. Will this change? Sure it can change, people are finicky, so next year's market research might say a diesel is a good idea.

It's my guess that you're not done talking about diesels yet.....

Now I am since I see nothing else to add. If everyone wants to wish, or dream, who am I to destroy their dreams. If enough dream and write letters to GM asking for a diesel, then possibly their dreams will come true. Hell, I keep dreaming of winning the Megamillions with every ticket, but then I'm logical enough to know it will not happen, and my five dollars a week is at least going to support schools.

[-=Mac=-]

If we don't have dreams, everything else becomes meaningless but that's a whole other subject.

I appreciate what you're saying, f5fstop- the market dictates what the manufacturers build but, as I said earlier, I would rather GM be a leader than a follower.

-Mac

[Huck BB62]

Nah, complacency is a good thing. Hell, that's what brought us AMC Matadors and Dodge Satellites while the Japanese were kicking our asses with their cars!

I bet they were saying..... If everyone wants to wish, or dream, who am I to destroy their dreams. If enough dream and write letters to GM asking for a fuel efficient, dependable, attractive car, then possibly their dreams will come true. Hell, I keep dreaming of winning the Megamillions with every ticket, but then I'm logical enough to know it will not happen, and my five dollars a week is at least going to support schools.

[-=Mac=-]

Originally Posted by Huck BB62

Nah, complacency is a good thing. Hell, that's what brought us AMC Matadors and Dodge Satellites while the Japanese were kicking our asses with their cars!

No kidding... The "Big Three" spent a couple of decades learning a lesson which I'm still not convinced they've conquered... loyalty will only carry them so far.

-Mac

Not seeing much loyalty to Big 3 around here at all. Don't think diesels are a big part of a successful GM turnaround. But I'm staying tuned and hopeful for more good products like the H3.

S.

[Huck BB62]

Have you ever driven a Duramax GM truck? I'd say that it has a LOT to do with GM truck sales since '01. I think that any power plant that gives fantastic power/torque and great mileage is going to help sales.

[JeffW]

GM seems to be putting all their foreign-oil-independent eggs in the E85 basket, but here in WA we don't have a single public E85 station. We do have quite a few biodiesel stations already and much more are on the way:

Grays Harbor port readies for biodiesel plant
By RACHEL LA CORTE
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Grays Harbor County will be home to an enormous biodiesel production plant under an agreement announced Tuesday involving Seattle-based Imperium Renewables.
The plant, to be built on land owned by the Port of Grays Harbor between Aberdeen and Hoquiam, will produce 100 million gallons of biodiesel a year. Construction began recently on a plant that will produce 85 million gallons per year in Velva, N.D.
Last year, national biodiesel production was just 75 million gallons, according to the Missouri-based National Biodiesel Board. By the end of the year, that number is expected to double.
...

With such momentum from Jeep and MB BlueTec, it definately seems like the General is missing the boat a bit.