Is the LR3 a Serious Off-Road Competitor?

[LR3_OWNER]

It's superior because of its gear ratio and it's the "right size" instead of being too big for its own tie-rods !

Plus...pay attention, look at my screen name. I'm obviously trying to push your buttons, which was remarkably easy.

I just feel like the H2 is too big. ...and for all that brawn its specs are unimpressive.

...and this may be an old thread but I'm a newcomer. If you are uninterested then don't reply.

[dochummer]

Well, unlike you, I also own the H2 and have had chances to wheel both under similar circumstances. The H2 in stock form outperforms the LR3 with oversized all-terrain tires. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the LR3. It would be my fourth choice after the Hummer(1,2,3). It has impressive abilities on paper and on/off-road but my personal experiences show that it is not as capable overall. My most recent test came with some access road wheeling. There was a small stream running across the trail, and the LR3 got stuck in the mud. Even with the LR3 in extended height mode, it didn't go anywhere. Ended up scratching the rims pretty badly as I was trying to get some momentum to get unstuck. The mud was up to the front bumper and driver's side sill. I had my cousin's stock H2 pull me back out, and then tried 2 more times to get through the same area. No good. I finally had to take a completely different line to get around the newly dug hole. Immediately afterwards, the H2 was driven through the middle of the hole, following my original line and had NO issues making it to the other side.

[LR3_OWNER]

...better (low) gear ratio for starters. Better fuel economy. Not too big so that it can't even fit down trails. Doesn't bust tie-rods because it's overweight.

...should I continue?

To be honest I don't know much about the H3 except that I PERSONALLY like it better. Take that for what it's worth. If you want to compare against the LR3 I can do that intelligently all day long.

The fact that this thread started by someone comparing the HUGE H2 to the comparatively dimunitive LR3 is an indictment on GM's inability to get it right with that model. It is, shall I say, "big for the sake of being big." This only indicates a lack of creativity and/or real design effort on the part of GM's Engineers.

Finally, look at my login name, Einstein....you have to expect that part of my mission in resurrecting this post is to irritate you and push your buttons. Mission accomplished.

[RazM]

Originally Posted by LR3_OWNER

Actually...just look at the two rigs (H2 and LR3). The fact that we are even having this conversation is an indictment of the H2. Look at it! Why should the LR3 be able to keep up with that beast? The H2 is big just to be big. Look at the measures of capability; gear ratios, wheel travel, ground clearance, power-to-weight. The LR3 is right there with the H2; and I don't believe for a second that the LR3 cannot "keep up" with anyone's H2, EXCEPT in the case where approach/departure angle becomes an issue.

...of course with 35s on an H3 that brings size and clearance issues into play. Likewise with an H2. Physical stature aside, I won't buy that the LR3 can't compete with the H2's traction and handling off-road. There is no reason for me to believe that based on what's on-board.

I like the H3. I actually think it's far superior to the H2. I didn't know it had a 4:1 low-range; that's impressive, like the Rubi. No front lockers though, right?

Your arguement runs in circles. The whole idea behind a well designed offroad vehicle are its proportions, and how those proportions relate to obstacles. It's very accurate (and amusing) when you say "...the LR3 [can] "keep up" with anyone's H2, EXCEPT in the case where approach/departure angle becomes an issue." I don't know what trails you've driven, but even the most basic will have you encounter obstacles where approach and departure angles are key.

You can have all the traction control systems in the world, if you can't get your tires on an obstacle, you're going nowhere, atleast without body damage.

The H2 and H3 both allow for the most wheel clearance of any competing 4x4, allowing them to run larger tires than the competition, without requiring a lift. This alone gives the H2 and H3 an edge over an LR3. Add to that the better angles, and it's not that hard to see why it would outperform your precious Land Rover.

BTW, on your final question about H3's and front lockers, yes, they're getting them in the '09 models.

Finally, the only mission you've accomplished it to show us all how little you understand on the basics of offroading. If that's what you set out to do, well, mission accomplished

[dochummer]

I wouldn't consider 12mpg in the city and 15mpg on the highway much of an "improvement" over the H2....

[Vettster]

Originally Posted by LR3_OWNER

...better (low) gear ratio for starters. Better fuel economy. Not too big so that it can't even fit down trails. Doesn't bust tie-rods because it's overweight.

...should I continue?

To be honest I don't know much about the H3 except that I PERSONALLY like it better. Take that for what it's worth. If you want to compare against the LR3 I can do that intelligently all day long.

The fact that this thread started by someone comparing the HUGE H2 to the comparatively dimunitive LR3 is an indictment on GM's inability to get it right with that model. It is, shall I say, "big for the sake of being big." This only indicates a lack of creativity and/or real design effort on the part of GM's Engineers.

Finally, look at my login name, Einstein....you have to expect that part of my mission in resurrecting this post is to irritate you and push your buttons. Mission accomplished.

Let me see. No profile and only 4 posts. (All to the same thread)
Dissing a vehicle that you admit to never having driven. (but, You say you like the pictures .
Admitting that you come onto the forum just to stir up things.

Seems to me that you should change your user name to LR3_Troll.

Come back when you have done your homework.

[LR3_OWNER]

I wasn't dissing the H3, just the H2...which I have in fact driven.

I regularly get 20 mpg on the freeway, so the gas mileage is far superior....forget the EPA estimates; they're not consistent with my experience.

As for the tire and ground clearance and my "circular argument." What I mean is that the H2 is much bigger than the LR3 and that does allow it to go places that the LR3 cannot go. It does not provide better traction or handle itself better over obstacles. That is not a circular argument....but I can see how it could sound like a contradiction. Let me make an analogy here to help you better understand my point. It is like having "weight classes" in wresting. You wouldn't expect a lightweight to beat a heavyweight....but in terms of technical abilty he may still be a better wrestler.

As for the poster that got stuck in the mud....I'd have to know more about your tires (on both rigs) and your driving ability before I can blame the Rover in this case. The size and wheelbase could've played a big role. What tires do you have on your LR3?

[RazM]

Originally Posted by LR3_OWNER

Let me make an analogy here to help you better understand my point. It is like having "weight classes" in wresting. You wouldn't expect a lightweight to beat a heavyweight....but in terms of technical abilty he may still be a better wrestler.

Except the LR3 can be compared to a lightweight who is wearing his trunks down at his ankles, he trips easily.

The whole point of a proper 4x4 comes down to how it's designed, minimal overhangs, maximum clearance. You can have all the traction control systems you want, if you can't fit decent tires or reach an obstacle without your body getting in the way, you're not going anywhere.

[dochummer]

12 mpg and 15 mpg are not estimates - they are real world results. My H2 gets 11 mpg and 15 mpg with the same driver...The EPA estimates aren't even close to what you'd expect.

BFG A/T's were run on both vehicles.

Have you been able to find any info on LR3's running the Rubicon Trail in California? Moab info/pics are also pretty limited although I know there are a few S.California guys who have run it. But as far as the Rubicon, I've looked, and sadly haven't found any yet.

Have you driven both vehicles off-road? If you're comparing on-road handling - the LR3 is somewhat more pleasurable in the city and has a much tighter turning radius. Parking is easier and you don't have to worry about roof clearance in parking garages. The highway, well - my wife and I both like the H2 better - especially for family trips/camping. For winter driving, either vehicle is great in the snow. However, I think the stability of the H2 is somewhat better than the LR3 - mostly because of it's track and size - it doesn't get pulled around as much in ruts. It is nice having stability control in the LR3 though. Off-road if you were to compare side by side, the H2 would have it beat. The size of the LR3 is better than the H2, and the traction control is impressive - but, the H2's approach and departure angles make it much more comfortable in more situations.

Yes, I agree you are comparing apples to oranges and the H3 would be a much better size comparison....

Originally Posted by LR3_OWNER

I wasn't dissing the H3, just the H2...which I have in fact driven.

I regularly get 20 mpg on the freeway, so the gas mileage is far superior....forget the EPA estimates; they're not consistent with my experience.

As for the tire and ground clearance and my "circular argument." What I mean is that the H2 is much bigger than the LR3 and that does allow it to go places that the LR3 cannot go. It does not provide better traction or handle itself better over obstacles. That is not a circular argument....but I can see how it could sound like a contradiction. Let me make an analogy here to help you better understand my point. It is like having "weight classes" in wresting. You wouldn't expect a lightweight to beat a heavyweight....but in terms of technical abilty he may still be a better wrestler.

As for the poster that got stuck in the mud....I'd have to know more about your tires (on both rigs) and your driving ability before I can blame the Rover in this case. The size and wheelbase could've played a big role. What tires do you have on your LR3?

[LR3_OWNER]

Well....14/20 mpg are MY real world results.

I hear what you're saying about angles, but there are other measures that you are neglecting.

What about gear ratios, suspension articulation (wheel travel), power-to-weight? The H2 is not great in those areas...I'm not just talking about traction control. ...and what about side-slope and gradient capability? The Hummer reports 60% and 40%....which is unimpressive.

I'm surprised to hear that you like the H2 better on long drives because frankly I can't see out of the thing.

There are some solid points being made in these posts; but I fear we're bordering on the realm of arguing taste and preference, which is futile.

[Boss Hoss]

Originally Posted by LR3_OWNER

Its clear to see i am ignorant and only want to talk about what is my personal preference and based on ignorance at that. Personally I prefer to e-wheel as wheeling in actuality would burst my bubble.

There are some solid points being made in these posts; but I fear we're bordering on the realm of arguing taste and preference, which is futile.

You must be new to ewheeling as you are not very good at it. How bout you put up or shut up. Since your LR3 is much smaller AND more capable so it should be able to walk circles around the H2....now post pics.

[LR3_OWNER]

changing my quote....very juvenile....and lame.

So, you want pics?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16177735@N00/?saved=1

The pics on this website, posted earlier by Aubs is actually ME ! Now, I don't expect you to believe that carte blanche, but it is. I was amazed when I saw that picture on the board. I thought "you know what, I think that's me." Then I saw my flickr sight pasted in and clicked it and sure enough, it's me. Those were taken in Carmel back in 2006. I've also done the Experience Driving School in Montreal. ...and I go out a bit here in WA too.

How do I post pics directly into this box? I will do so when I figure it out, but clearly I'm not as e-savvy as you JOs !

By the way, speaking of e-wheeling...ever see the Hummer stuff on Comcast? Watching the H2 ford 27" of "Virtual Water" is a joke.

[LR3_OWNER]

I had to make this a small file, hence the name.

There are more pics, but I have a meeting and will have to post 'em later.

[dochummer]

Where do you wheel in WA?

[LR3_OWNER]

Most of the places are in Eastern Washington (Liberty, Fortune Creek, Manastash, Naches) but the picture above was actually at Tahuya on the Kitsap Peninsula. The stuff is admittedly easy, but hey...it's a stock rig and it's my daily driver! I think it's good just to get out and use a real SUV for what it's built for!

[dochummer]

You're definition of "eastern washington" is not quite what I'd consider "eastern." I live in the Tri-Cities. If I recall correctly, most of those trails are half way between here and Seattle? . Have you run the Naches trail yet? The closest trails we have here are the Dunes and Hover Park....

[dochummer]

I just wish we had more runs like this closer to home....

[LR3_OWNER]

You're right, that's more like Central WA. I have not done Naches myself, but several other members of a local Rovers club I run with have...and hopefully I will in the next few months.

Where was that picture taken?

[Boss Hoss]

Originally Posted by LR3_OWNER

I am very juvenile....and lame.

So, you want pics?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16177735@N00/?saved=1

Hey nancy boy, i guess i need to spell this out. When i say put up or shut up, it means putting up pictures of your LR3 tackling terrain which would prove to be too much for the H2 or H3. What you have posted is for nancy boys who think they are wheeling. Search the forum for Moab, Fordyce, The Rubion, and Tellico and youll see what wheeling is like. Im very excited to see your LR3 on something other than a dirt hill.

Originally Posted by LR3_OWNER

By the way, speaking of e-wheeling...ever see the Hummer stuff on Comcast? Watching the H2 ford 27" of "Virtual Water" is a joke.

I agree your virtual ewheeling is lame. Lets play a game, find the 37in tire :

[LR3_OWNER]

Boss,

So, let me see if I've got this straight....I"m a "Nancy-boy" because my SUV is smaller than yours? Is that about right?

I'm not going to engage in the name-calling game with you; I will choose to take the high road, but am quite certain that I could out wit you easily...especially if all you've got is "nancy-boy" and mis-quoting.

I would LOVE to post pics of me wheelin' in places where the H2 could not follow....trouble is, I can't find an H2 owner that is not a complete poser (22" rims, chrome, flash, no balls!) or that is willing to go out on a trail run with me.

...and that's the only way I can do what you ask; the H2 must be present...I can't just take a picture of the trail itself and expect that it would frighten you into submission. Indeed, the trails themselves are not necessarily imposing. My rig is smaller than the H2 (as noted) and if I can traverse it certainly the H2 can as well. However, where the LR3's advantage lies is in traction and hill-climbing. Therefore, it would have to be a situation where some numb-nuts H2 driver tries to drive across a rock-face or dirt side-slope that is too much for the Hummer and flips over....or maybe while trying to drive over a boulder-strewn path with less control (due to the poor gearing) they have to use too much throttle and snap a tie-rod. That's what I'll have to capture. That will be more difficult, but as soon as I get that footage, posting it here will be the FIRST thing I do, Hoss....rest assured.

I'm sure you've seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxrdwXXat14