Attn: gun experts

[Aubs]

Don't forget our friends at Taser. They have the cool 'energy' weapons, and you can legally carry some of them. They're probably very expensive however.
http://www.taser.com/index.asp

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by Racer-X

I'll clarify - I would never attempt to PULL a gun on someone who had one pointed at me. That would be asking to get shot. I would have no problem pulling the trigger if I thought my life was in danger.

It was clear the first time and you didn't change things. How do you know the person pointing the gun doesn't subscribe to the same principles that was iterated to you above about pointing a gun at someone that you don't intend to kill.

Why take the chance? Again, if you are not comfortable in pulling and using a handgun in that situation, you do not need to seek it's use as personal protection. You are simply looking for additional trouble that you don't want. That is the one time in your life you would most assuredly want that protection, yet you state you wouldn't make use of it. Someone is pointing a gun at you, you can't assume they are NOT going to shoot you. THAT'S asking to get shot.

[ShaggyX]

CC is just asking for trouble, and is more likely to escalate the issue then anything else. That is all.

[ETD]

Are you an obvious target? I'm sure you do not drive in the Hummer, right? Are you going in at night with your signage and tattoo's ablazing? You have survived being held at gun point several times but having a gun in those situations would have guaranteed you getting killed, IMHO (unless you have a background in close quarter combat, NOT playing around @ the shooting range, but actually shooting at living/breathing people who want to kill you). IMHO, it is irresponsible for me and others to give you advice on what would be the best gun to have in your pocket when the coroner goes over your dead body. My own advice is if you consider those situations so intrinsic in your livelihood (for civilians, I can only come up with a couple of scenarios e.g. bounty hunter and body guard) then become proficient in close quarter combat by studying with a reputable professional rather than just shopping around for firearm (is your life really worth a one time purchase of $300-$500 or a lifetime of careful and diligent study of the martial arts). Most Ninjutsu practitioners, for example, are given wide berth in otherwise hostile territories based on just the aura they project. And that's just $0.02 worth of advice. Good luck.

[CO Hummer]

Originally Posted by ShaggyX

CC is just asking for trouble, and is more likely to escalate the issue then anything else. That is all.

Do you mind if I quote you for a Deep Thinker's Hall of Fame nomination?

[ShaggyX]

Originally Posted by CO Hummer

Do you mind if I quote you for a Deep Thinker's Hall of Fame nomination?

I will gladly endorse this request.

[MarineHawk]

I agree with Para on this and his previous comments. If the guy is about to shoot you you anyway, acting quickly, drawing, and firing a shot or more into his mid section, will give you a very good chance of survival - approximately infinitely better than just sitting there and taking the hit.

If he's hesitant and unsure what to do himself - even more so. The vast majority of armed criminal IMO are cowards. If you act decisively, calmly, quickly, and intellligently in deploying your weapon, you should come out on top more than 90% of the time.

One illustration that draws on what Para was saying is that more than 85% of rounds fired in police shootouts (I think this is correct; I can't recall the specific numbers - someone help me if you know) miss their target. Keep in mind that (again I think this is correct) more than 80% of those shootouts occur at a distance of less than 10 feet!

Thus the victor isn't usually or necessarily the best marksman, the fastest one, or even the one who gets the head start - it's most often the one who is determined to respond and does so as calmly and proficiently as possible. As part of that training formal or otherwise at hitting moving targets quickly and thinking about what you will do in a given situation ahead of time is critical. If you act decisively and don't freak out, you'll win most of the time even if the other guy has the drop on you. As a concealed carrier, you have the element of surprise, and they don't know what you're going to do or when you're going to do it. in some sense, it's an advantage if you act effectively.

I might disagree with the others about the pocket issue. I have a small auto in my pocket often when I woulnd't have anything if I had to have a holster. If it's hot and I'm wearing shorts and a shirt tucked in, I'm not going to wear a jacket or untuck my shirt so that I can carry. I just put my thin holstered .380 in my pocket. (Note, as I said earlier, I'd put my Glock or H&K in a holster or quick opening camera case or something if I was expecting to walk around East St. Louis or Detroit or something)
One advantage to the pocket approach is that if someone is walking near you, and you sense a possible threat but really don't know, but don't want to reach for a holstered weapon, just stick your hand in your pocket. At that point, drawing and firing takes about 0.3 seconds.

Originally Posted by PARAGON

It was clear the first time and you didn't change things. How do you know the person pointing the gun doesn't subscribe to the same principles that was iterated to you above about pointing a gun at someone that you don't intend to kill.

Why take the chance? Again, if you are not comfortable in pulling and using a handgun in that situation, you do not need to seek it's use as personal protection. You are simply looking for additional trouble that you don't want. That is the one time in your life you would most assuredly want that protection, yet you state you wouldn't make use of it. Someone is pointing a gun at you, you can't assume they are NOT going to shoot you. THAT'S asking to get shot.

[Aubs]

I think this would scare anyone: Just walk around with a particle accelerator on your back, and aim it at anything that moves...

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by ShaggyX

CC is just asking for trouble, and is more likely to escalate the issue then anything else. That is all.

I agree if you don't pay them off every month. If you carry the balance the interest rates will eat you up.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by ETD

IMHO, it is irresponsible for me and others to give you advice on what would be the best gun to have in your pocket when the coroner goes over your dead body.

IMHO, it is irresponsible for me and others to advise someone to not arm himself when the coroner goes over his dead body because he was in a fight without a weapon. Of course, he needs to be trained. Read the Armed Citizen feature in the American Rifleman. It's regulalry filled with stories of people who saved their lives by deploying a firearm against people who were threatening them annd/or their families. I've noticed that many of them are 80 year old women. certainly, most of them aren't Navy Seals or otherwise have a "background in close quarter combat."

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by PhilD

Fixed. But much of that is due to training, with the peoper amount of training you will increase your reaction times, as they will more instinctive and you will have better muscle memory etc to be able to do what needs to be done.

That reminds me of a theory that's related and unrelated.

In combat, on the streets, etc. When an extreme situation occurs, your mind body falls back on "instinct." Many/most times the individual does not have much or any good memory of exact details of what transpired even though their actions were very deliberate and proper. It's always stated as he had the proper training, muscle memory, etc.

So, a while back it hit me about driving. You hear talk about people driving and talking on their cell phones, or talking to the person in the passenger seat and then not really having a memory of how they got to where they were going, but it was deliberate and they got there. Then, on occasion there are instances where some idiot can't walk and chew gum at the same time and shouldn't try to drive and talk at the same time, right? Well if the aforementioned is true, then those that are on the phone and run red lights, speed, drive erratically, etc. have simply been training themselves to drive that way for when they get on the phone. If they would drive responsibly during normal times, they would drive safely while their abilities are taxed.

Just a theory.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

I might disagree with the others about the pocket issue. I have a small auto in my pocket often when I woulnd't have anything if I had to have a holster. If it's hot and I'm wearing shorts and a shirt tucked in, I'm not going to wear a jacket or untuck my shirt so that I can carry. I just put my thin holstered .380 in my pocket. (Note, as I said earlier, I'd put my Glock or H&K in a holster or quick opening camera case or something if I was expecting to walk around East St. Louis or Detroit or something)
One advantage to the pocket approach is that if someone is walking near you, and you sense a possible threat but really don't know, but don't want to reach for a holstered weapon, just stick your hand in your pocket. At that point, drawing and firing takes about 0.3 seconds.

I would suggest one of these. You can stick a full-sized in there (especially since you are a small-penised Hummer owner ) and it still not print. As long as you don't have an old style 1911 or something that snags bad, it is pretty smooth to pull from.

It's perfect for something like the sk or even a G23.

http://www.smartcarry.com/scbrochure.pdf

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

I would suggest one of these. You can stick a full-sized in there (especially since you are a small-penised Hummer owner ) and it still not print. As long as you don't have an old style 1911 or something that snags bad, it is pretty smooth to pull from.

It's perfect for something like the sk or even a G23.

http://www.smartcarry.com/scbrochure.pdf

It helps that I wear my pants like this:

[Racer-X]

Note: NO sarcasm in this post whatsoever - Just real questions.

Scenario - thug with a gun 6' away pointing between my eyes. If I have a gun in my pocket I should try to pull it?

I would think my chances would be better if I cooperated. Atleast until I felt I had an oppourtunity to pull when and IF the situation allowed it.

For me it would depend on what he wanted. If he wanted my wallet, he can have it. I would never take someones life to protect my property.

On the other hand if I thought he simply wanted me dead or had mental issues I would likely take my chances and draw. It all depends on the situation.

MarineHawks scenario of putting my hand in my pocket when I feel something is out of place is a good point. I can't tell you how many times I would have loved to be able to do that.

I think it's a good idea if I get into some kind of class that addresses these issues and I will. Can't say I have time to practice with the thing every month but I'll certainly spend as much time as possible learning to use it proficiently. Would be fun anyway.

Pepper spray and Tazers have uses, they are great in a fist fight but I wouldn't want to use either in a gun fight.

BTW - I bet I would get fairly good at close quarters snap shooting really quick. I've played paintball almost all of my adult life at a tournament level. I know a firearm is different but in many ways it is very similar. Reaction time is reaction time.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Racer-X

Scenario - thug with a gun 6' away pointing between my eyes. If I have a gun in my pocket I should try to pull it?

Stand there motionless except for pulling the gun? No.

Move quckly out of his line as you pull the gun and fire while moving laterally? Yes.

It's unlikely he's going to have the immediate reaction to shoot before the 1/20th of a second elapses and your head leaves his sight line. Even then, he probably won't be able to keep his aim on you and also be able to realize that you are deploying a weapon. A million thoughts are going through his head. "What should I do? Is he running away? should I let him go? Is he a threat? Does he have enough money in his wallet to risk a murder charge?" Only two are going through yours. Move and fire; move and fire. IMO opinino your chances of surviving if you act effectively are greater than they are at correctly guessing whether or not he just wants your wallet or your life as well.

Modify the scenario a bit though. What if you're with your wife/sister/son/mother/girlfriend/etc. ? Going to "cooperate" then? Leave a violent criminal with total control over a loved one?

[Racer-X]

What do you guys think of this place?

http://www.frontsight.com/index.asp

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Racer-X

What do you guys think of this place?

http://www.frontsight.com/index.asp

Not sure. sounds good. Maybe expensive. This place is good and you get paid to train: http://www.mcrdsd.usmc.mil/RTR/trainingDS.htm