Ocean City Maryland beach hummer accident

[ROX]

tower: You da man!

I da PMS.

Thanks for straightening that out.
Roxie

[tower]

Aw, shucks, Roxie.

[Hummoron]

Ok, my story about what I thought happened is completely wrong by what is getting reported in the paper now. Most of my key points were what had been reported by the paper and I assumed they were correct.

The beach does not usually have terrain violent enough to roll a pickup (with the exception of the dunes which are off limits because of the fragile vegetation) at normal speeds. The maximum allowed speed is 25 mph and must be reduced to 15 when within 100 feet of another vehicle. Considering the number of people who drive their pickups on the beach without rolling them, it just seemed unlikely that he would roll (what I would assume is) a much more stable hummer going at normal (up to to 35) speeds. I couldn't find anything online that mentioned how often vehicles overturn while on the beach. I'm sure the rangers have some stories to tell, but I didn't find them.

I also assumed that they both made it out of the surf, which would have gave some credence to your hope that the rangers could have saved them. Assuming they rolled at the waters edge and they were unable to get out of the surf and onto the sand, I would also assume that it is pretty unlikely that the rangers could have gotten there on time even if they had gone straight to them. Although they did perish from hypothermia and not drowning according to the current reports) so maybe there was hope.

Now, the map that someone posted showed the gps point as being quite a ways out in the water. I initially assumed that both the coordinates and the map were slightly off and that the accident occurred on the waters edge. However, if they were driving in the ocean (albeit a shallow section), that would also account for the sudden terrain change that could roll a hummer without Adam being able to see and avoid it. After the accident, one or both climbed on top of the vehicle to get out of the water and that is when OnStar got the call. And that is where they stayed waiting for help until the tide rose.

But I just can't imagine anyone being so stupid as to drive their hummer in salt water (which is going to get into every crevice to rot out the metal) and to drive so far out into the OCEAN with it as to be afraid or unable to get back to shore on their own. Just boggles my sick mind. I am honestly open to someone giving a reasonable explanation of how this accident could have occurred without Adam being overly reckless and foolhardy.

Maybe there was a gut cut by a recent storm that rolled the hummer at the waters edge...but they still should have been able to get to the beach and out of the surf.

Regardless of the cause, no one has suggested that someone else did anything that caused the accident. Assuming they weren't attacked by a herd of killer ponies that caused the hummer to roll, the driver of the hummer is the only person responsible for their deaths. Everyone here wants to treat Adam as some kind of saint after his actions caused his own death, but want to belittle the rangers who responded and tried to rescue them (and they didn't have my attitude about humorons).

Despite what others have claimed, the park rangers duties are:


http://www.nps.gov/asis/orv.htm

National Park Service staff can:
•Assist with removing sand from around the tires
•Deflate tires
•Use traction devices such as boards
•Make a phone call on your behalf to friends/family
•Provide information regarding local towing services

National Park Service staff cannot:
•Winch or pull the vehicles out
•Recommend a towing company

Yes, a distress call in the winter is much more important than someone just stuck in the sand in the middle of summer, but overall you are on your own to get yourself out of any jam you get into. Many 4-wheelers have demonstrated that when driving with some sense, the beach can be a fun and safe activity. Act stupid and all bets are off.

[dochummer]

I don't think that anyone here is questioning who is at fault for this horrible accident. I think it's fair to say that we all agree that it most likely was driver error and not a herd of killer ponies. Most of us are only re-acting to the apparent lack of concern by the local authorities in the area. I, for one, upon hearing of this tragic event hope that I never have a family member run into trouble in the area, because I am not confident in the abilities of the local authorities.

On a side note, if this event involved any other vehicle other than an H2 or H1, I believe the members of this forum would have reacted the same way. I'm sure you would have reacted differently if it were a jeep, toyota or whatever you drive. Not all vehicles are immune to accidents or driver error.

[tower]

Dear Hummoron,

Your most recent post is the most humble I have seen from you, and I am grateful for that. You seem, though to a lesser extent, to still want to blame Adam. I still hold that the rangers were delinquent in their duties. I suppose we must simply agree to disagree on this. I greatly appreciate your having the courage to openly recant your original position, at least partially. Thank you for participating in our forum. As the facts of the incident unfold, I suspect there will be enough lessons for us all.

Be safe,
t~

[PARAGON]

So, which one of your schizoid personalities wrote this last tidbit?

[ROX]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
So, which one of your schizoid personalities wrote this last tidbit?

HumMoron: Welcome back. Is that you?

[Klaus]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
Despite what others have claimed, the park rangers duties are:

http://www.nps.gov/asis/orv.htm

National Park Service staff can:
•Assist with removing sand from around the tires
•Deflate tires
•Use traction devices such as boards
•Make a phone call on your behalf to friends/family
•Provide information regarding local towing services

National Park Service staff cannot:
•Winch or pull the vehicles out
•Recommend a towing company

Look, moron - Read this and let it sink in your thick skull:

Duties
Park Rangers supervise, manage and perform work in the conservation and use of resources in national parks and other federally-managed areas. Park Rangers carry out various tasks associated with forest or structural fire control; protection of property; gathering and dissemination of natural, historical, or scientific information; development of interpretive material for the natural, historical, or cultural features of an era; demonstration of folk art and crafts; enforcement of laws and regulations; investigation of violations, complaints, trespass/encroachment, and accidents; search and rescue; and management of historical, cultural, and natural resources, such as wildlife, forests, lakeshores, seashores, historic buildings, battlefields, archaeological properties, and recreation areas. They also operate campgrounds, including such tasks as assigning sites, replenishing firewood, performing safety inspections, providing information to visitors, and leading guided tours. Differences in the exact nature of duties depend on the grade of position, the site's size and specific needs.

http://www.nps.gov/personnel/rangers.htm

Now you can bet your ass that these guys get paid to perform the above duties. No one forced them to take this job. If it's too much trouble to perform ALL of the duties required of Rangers, then they should turn in their badge and quit.

No one is saying that the Rangers are responsible for the accident. Adam was driving. HOWEVER - Had the Rangers done their job in a professional manner, one or both of the victims would probably be alive today.

Originally posted by Hummoron:
...overall you are on your own to get yourself out of any jam you get into.

Considering the incompetent search and rescue those Rangers provided - I'll have agree with you on this point.

[Hummoron]

Tower,

My problem with Hummer and SUV owners is that their selection of a vehicle ultimately effects me. While some may actually need their vehicle, most do not. At least the roads around here don't require the use of a large vehicle to pickup a bag of groceries. Their fuel guzzling vehicles might not be the primary cause of pump prices rising, but it certainly isn't helping. If more people chose fuel efficient vehicles, it might actually help. It would certainly get the car makers more interested in looking for ways to make safe yet efficient cars. And how many of you haven't silently said to yourself at some point "yeah, he'll move. I'm bigger than him"? How many people driving a BMW M5 has said the same? And I bet it hauls grociers just as well on less fuel.

Adam had what, about 15 miles of beach just for off-road vehicle use? But no, he decided to ruin the outdoors for anyone deciding to enjoy a nice walk along the beach in the pedestrian use only area. Arrogant prick. Or maybe he just couldn't be bothered to learn the rules? Maybe he missed the crossover, but then what was wrong with his GPS? I mean, he's got GPS, what does he need landmarks for? He had no excuse for being in the wrong area.

The next time there is a distress call, I hope the rangers search the prohibited use area first because "when we have a vehicle that makes us feel safe, we are going to test the limits anyway? They should have been looking in the place where they shouldn't have been." - Queen Sheba. But I guess you'd all cry about that too.

Maybe we just need to add a $100K tax to all hummer and suv sales so that the park service can have better and more rangers on duty in the middle of winter on a Saturday evening just in case one of you get in trouble. Cheers.

[HUMMERDOGG]

Hummoron-

Ultimately, what is it you want??? You complain about the type of person who drives an H2. Which is extremely debateable and which I have defended in previous posts since most H2's I see are driven by teenage to middle age women. Now, you complain how the vehicle we drive affects you? You have mentioned how it's gas guzzling and it's unsafe in an accident. Unfortunately, you aren't the first troll to come in here and start berating the choice of vehicle we drive and complain how the increase in the size of the ozone hole, increase in the price of gas, car versus suv accident survival rate, troop presence in Iraq, <insert another dozen or so bs reasons why we shouldn't drive our H2>, has to be a direct result of the emergence of the H2. Give it a break.

The truth of the matter is this- all over the world, economies are growing- specifically for my example India and China, at rates we haven't seen before and that no one could have anticpated three years ago. Therefore, the demand for energy, agricultural products, steel, copper, etc... has risen rapidly in the past two years to account for the rapid rise in demand. This increase in global demand for crude oil, coupled with concerns regarding supply disruptions (keep in mind that Nigeria, Russia, Venezuela, Iraq, etc... aren't the most stable places yet make up a relatively large amount of the daily crude oil production), a weak dollar, along with highly leveraged/well financed/bullish speculating hedge funds have caused this runup. However, keep in mind, as recently as January 05 we were at $42, Sept 03 we were at $26, and Sept 01 we were at $18. Crude prices will continue to erode over the long haul and I truly believe we will see relief at the pump as a result of it. However, it won't happen overnite and it definitely wouldn't just happen overnite if every H2 was taken off the road...

Keep in mind, it's all about supply and demand. Do you think we can keep building the way we are here in the US- homes, apartments, strip centers, etc... and not think at some point we might not have enough electric generation built to supply all the demand growth that is going on. Trust me brother, California will happen all over again. Maybe not in California next but maybe Florida or New York. When it happens, are you going to go bitch to every person who bought a house in that new 5,000 house development across the street. Who, because they bought a home there, are now using the same electricity that you were using before. And since the utility wasn't able to get a new power plant online in time, there isn't enough electricity to go around and you both are now faced with rolling brownouts??? It's inevitable and called progress. As we build more ****, we need more natural gas, heating oil, electricity, water, land fills, highway infrastructure, schools, etc... to keep up with it all. And demand and supply don't hold hands and grow at the same exact convenient pace. Demand typically outstrips supply and then you have high prices... and then everyone comes in to capitalize on the high prices and builds all this supply and then prices fall... Old Supply gets taken down since it's no longer profitable, etc.. then the whole cycle starts all over again... It's the nature of the beast.

Now, I've told you already why the price at the pump you are currently paying is so high. Now that you are armed with that information, go bitch to the big oil companies and tell them you want more refineries built in the US so that US refining capacity can keep up with demand.

With regard to demand, I'd like to hear your opinion on what is fuel efficient. Would you talk **** if I had a diesel H2 and ran it on B100 biodiesel? It be a totally renewable fuel with no impact to the current demand for fossil fuels and no impact to the enviroment.

No, you'd only just go on to bitch about how the thing is dangerous in a wreck, when in all reality, the H2 is no more dangerous than any of those full size pickups that are out on the road... ****, here in Texas, every other Ford/Dodge/Chevy Pickup has one of those Cattle Guard Bumpers. Tell me that thing wouldn't tear up a lot more **** than my H2 if I hit you...

And for your benefit since you brought it up, the top of the line x5 costs at least $20K more than the top of the line H2. X5 drivers aren't saying under their breath-"he'll move, I'm bigger than him"... naw, they are just saying-"I'm richer and better than you so you should move for me..."

[DRTYFN]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
Tower,

My problem with... <span class="ev_code_RED">BLAH-****ING-BLAH</span>
...get in trouble. Cheers.

You whining bitch. Do you ever shut your mouth(when you're not at "work")?

Jesus christo!!! The poor nitwit pulled a Darwinistic move and paid the price. Let it rest.

You don't like the Hummer why? Because some one else has given you an easily recognizable target to focus your limited brain power on and now your concentrating for all your worth on that one thought.

I ran into two of your dip**** brethren today(2 in 1 day is a real bonus). One malcontent little bitch pull her bandana over her face so she could hide her nasty grill before flipping me off. When I circled back around to ask her why, her answer was "I don't like what you drive". I calmly asked her why(while imagining pushing her into traffic) she didn't like what I was driving. The glazed over look I got back confirmed my suspicions- She hadn't been programmed with any further thoughts on the issue. I offered to walk her through the parking lot next to us and help educate her on all of the other vehicles she was missing out on hating, but she pushed her ****ty little bike away while glaring straight ahead, pissed off that she ran into someone that wasn't just going to take her gesture and drive off.
The next brain dead, mid 20's, hippie puke was in a rust bucket, early '70s light blue Volvo wagon that was sitting idling at a red light and spewing smoke several shades darker than its 30 year old paint. I was making a right turn onto the street he had just driven down and he decided he was going to make his statement by clearly & angrily mouthing "**** you" directly at me. Since I knew no one was directly behind me I slammed on the brakes. He suddenly looked like a scared little kid that didn't want to look sideways for fear that the Boogey Man was coming to get him. My window was down and so was his, so I yelled to him(and I know he heard me because he started to shake like a little bitch) to ask why he thought that was something he could mouth to me. Did he give any answer? Noooo. I then tore him a new portal for his ****ting pleasure for being a coward(ok, I think I called him a "little hippie bitch pussy".I'm not exactly sure what I called him because I went into a name calling trance.) He just sat there and stared straight ahead like Death was coming to get him and if he didn't look it might pass him by. The bus driver directly behind him had his window open and he started to laugh at him for getting caught and receiving an ass-chewing for it.

The point of my little stories is that I'd put money on you being the same kind of no-load carrying malcontent, have-not, POS as those two were today. Mouth off all you can on the Internet or someplace where you think someone won't confront you for your cowardly actions or words, but in person you'd dribble piss down your leg like a scared little girl.

You made your opinion clear on the accident, but don't bring your weak ass "I'm going to teach you all the error of your ways" garbage in here. After reading a few of your posts it's very clear that the only thoughts you can regurgitate are the ones fed to you.

[ROX]

Originally posted by Hummoron:
Tower,

My problem with Hummer and SUV owners is that their selection of a vehicle ultimately effects me. While some may actually need their vehicle, most do not. At least the roads around here don't require the use of a large vehicle to pickup a bag of groceries. Their fuel guzzling vehicles might not be the primary cause of pump prices rising, but it certainly isn't helping. If more people chose fuel efficient vehicles, it might actually help. It would certainly get the car makers more interested in looking for ways to make safe yet efficient cars. And how many of you haven't silently said to yourself at some point "yeah, he'll move. I'm bigger than him"? How many people driving a BMW M5 has said the same? And I bet it hauls grociers just as well on less fuel.

Adam had what, about 15 miles of beach just for off-road vehicle use? But no, he decided to ruin the outdoors for anyone deciding to enjoy a nice walk along the beach in the pedestrian use only area. Arrogant prick. Or maybe he just couldn't be bothered to learn the rules? Maybe he missed the crossover, but then what was wrong with his GPS? I mean, he's got GPS, what does he need landmarks for? He had no excuse for being in the wrong area.

The next time there is a distress call, I hope the rangers search the prohibited use area first because "when we have a vehicle that makes us feel safe, we are going to test the limits anyway? They should have been looking in the place where they shouldn't have been." - Queen Sheba. But I guess you'd all cry about that too.

Maybe we just need to add a $100K tax to all hummer and suv sales so that the park service can have better and more rangers on duty in the middle of winter on a Saturday evening just in case one of you get in trouble. Cheers.

Hummoron: You've made it pretty clear by your posts, that you live out there. I'm sorry you have to be so spiteful toward one guy who broke the rules and paid for it with his life.

Your posts really aren't about the accident on the beach, they're about your OPINION on peoples "selection of vehicle". What people in America drive does not cause gas prices to go up or down. But this is not the place to point all that out. This thread is a FACT FINDING mission about an Onstar call that was not followed up on properly. I don't think his being in a Hummer had anything to do with breaking the rules. He may have done it in any 4wd he was driving. It's pure speculation.

Linda wants to find out what went wrong, and why her friends died. She doesn't care if it was a Hummer or a Volkswagon. She wants to know what happened to make her friends die of exposure, when authorities had co-ordinates that would lead them to the scene.

One more thing: Maybe you didn't know this, but Hummers have an Onstar system that can be tracked using GPS. The earlier model Hummers do not have the kind of GPS you would use out on the trails to find out where you've been and where you are. Adams was a 2004, so maybe he did have it. I don't know. So, please don't speculate.

If you'd like to tell us your hatred of big SUV's, save it for another post.

If Linda's post is correct, Onstar recieved an emergency button, and airbag deployment alert. Why didn't they inform 911?

"After the park rangers’ initial search was called off late that first night, it wasn’t until the Starky’s body and the Hummer were found early the next morning that a comprehensive multi-agency search was conducted of the entire area. It remains to be seen if a similar search conducted the night before could have possibly found the crash site and the victims."

They weren't sure if there was someone out there; they weren't sure if it was an actual emergency; they weren't sure why the coordinates were so hard to locate; They just plain old weren't sure of anything. They should have called in the big dogs that night, just to be sure no one was out there.

Let's put it this way.
If the Coast Guard would have recieved that call, Adam and Jen would still be alive! I'm sure of it.

P.S. Take the BIG CAR tax idea and shove it up your ass. K?

[H2Finally]

ELOQUENTLY PUT! Roxs!

[h2co-pilot]

Originally posted by H2 Rocks:
If you'd like to tell us your hatred of big SUV's, save it for another post.

Yeah Humm-yourown, post your gripes on this thread..

http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/t...1/m/7711075411

[Linda]

It is amazing to me how the press oporates.... let me explain:

The is another site that has had a thread going about the hummer accident as well (http://www.stripersonline.com/ubb547...ic/8/1986.html), and it is there that I orginally started posting. Then I found this one, and to be frank I have gottan a ton more info here. Anyway, a day or two ago I posted a message on that site telling anyone who was still interested in finding out the latest on this accident should check out this site. In doing so I must of offended some people because I was basically told to just "let it rest" and "stop blamming". I responed by merely stating that I was NOT trying to blame anyone.... but with out a doubt there were some very serious mistakes made that night, not only by Adam but by the Rangers in their lack of effort that night. I continued to say that there was a LOT of important facts that have surfaced that the papers are NOT publishing in trying to save face. The papers put in there what they want NOT the whole truth, I have never been more aware of this as to now. But anyway what I find amazing is that they DELETED my post, saying that I was making accusations!! Its seems o.k. for people to make accusations about Adam such as saying he was speeding (which has been proved that he was NOT) that he was drunk (which again he was not).... yet when I say something about the lame rescue effort that night I am BANNED form even letting others seeing my post!! WHAT??????

As for letting it rest.... how can I when obviously something is wrong in the way emergencies are handled on the island, and two people are dead as a result. If nothing else, I hope and pray that something good comes of all this, that people will be a bit wiser and learn from all this. Not only the people who 4-wheel but the authorites as well.

-Linda

[VTSTOMPER]

Can we all just agree that is was a tragic event and hope that nothing like this ever happens to anyone ever again? I hope that we all learned something here about 4weeling, and how sometimes every safety measure cannot save everyone, every time. Would I lock this thread if I could? Probably seeing how hummoron is acting in such a way that will only add to more and more replies, wasting bandwidth. Well, at least there are many adults here that are not whining their hatred for Hummers and all basic capitalism. Then only to turn and take it out on the poor soles that are no longer with us. After all it just ends up fueling to the all mighty hummer haters. If you hate my hummer, great, good…I love the fact that you do, after all it's you right. But coming onto a Hummer forum to talk poorly about Hummer is one thing. To start mocking people that have loved ones that died in a tragic death is horrific. Only because they are driving a hummer - holding them to a higher level of stupidity is immensely amazing on its own. As Linda said, mistakes were made…yes! Mistakes by what sounds like everyone involved pretty much had one or two mistakes probably. We like to call that human error. It can happen when you misjudge a cooking recipe…oh well…it can also happen and cost people lives…when this happens it is truly a sickening thing. Please find it in your heart to see your reflection in the mirror and just allow all whom died to rest in piece.

[Salt Lake City HUMMER]

Originally posted by VTSTOMPER:
Can we all just agree that is was a tragic event and hope that nothing like this ever happens to anyone ever again?

Amen

[KenP]

Linda, your last post was edited on that forum:

**edited**

Sorry Linda, but this is not going to become a platform for you to toss around speculation and accusations of that sort. We are sorry you lost your friend and many here have expressed their condolences, but it’s way past time to put this one to bed here. If anyone wishes to continue to follow this with Linda I will leave the link up there to the Hummer message board for awhile. Please take it over there and leave it there.

Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.

[ 03-24-2005, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Bill Klein ]

Adam made a mistake and we can all agree on that. What I am interested in is the response, or lack there of. According to the other forum the parents have gotten lawyers. Now that may bother me depending on where they go with it.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by Salt Lake City HUMMER:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VTSTOMPER:
Can we all just agree that is was a tragic event and hope that nothing like this ever happens to anyone ever again?

Amen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Guys, what fairytale land are you from. "Let's just HOPE that nothing like this ever happens again" ? To several adults here, this is not some idea you can just keep at arm's length. Please do us all a favor and read all of the posts here before you post your opinion about the subject. To just write off the whole thing and forget about it, you would have to ignore the facts and basically not give a damn as to whether or not something could have been done different. You see, this isn't about one person making a mistake. It is about a standard operation procedure that must be flawed for this to have transpired the way it did.

This same thing could happen on any rural road in any state if the emergency services are not trained properly.

[Marcmedic]

You bet your ass I'd be canned if I pulled anything like that. What they did went way past negligence, and there is no way you can say otherwise. They were lazy, plain and simple. Just becuase Adam was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, and possibly being careless does not free emergency responders from performing their duties. Maybe the next time a drunk plows into a loaded minivan I'll just leave him there since he was stupid...I think not. The Park Rangers ****ed up, plain and simple, and in the end they'll pay the price with their jobs and a lawsuit. When you call off a search and the people die of exposure because you were lazy...you pay.