Kerry insults every man and woman in uniform

[PARAGON]

Watch this video and then argue in favor of Kerry's words

Some of the "dumb" Armed Forces members

[KenP]

Nope, not gonna watch it. I can see it all day on the news.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by KenP

Nope, not gonna watch it. I can see it all day on the news.

It's not what you think it is..... at all.

There is nothing about John Kerry in it. Just American Heroes.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

This is a good debate. I see good points all around and some I disagree with, and that's cool. I love that we can disagree with the politicians and not get arrested, kidnapped or put on a death list.

That's the best thing about America ... we're free to think what we want and speak our mind. We can consider all sides of an issue and make our own decisions with information from a variety of sources. It's our right and responsibility to listen to different points of view and agree or disagree as we see fit.

But to oppress or ban opposing viewpoints is the road to totalitarianism. Dictatorships are full of blind, obedient patriotic citizens who don't think for themselves, use only one source of information and follow a single-minded ideology. That path leads to the antithesis of democracy and freedom - fascism, jihad, and crusade.

There's a difference between "majority rules" and "might makes right". Even within a democracy, when people blindly follow their leaders, their party or their own ideology, they disrespect what democracy exists for. Ultimately, although the US was founded with a political structure of checks, balances and democracy, it's only as democratic as the people who think for themselves, stay informed, consider opposing viewpoints, make up their own mind and vote their own conscience. Anything else is the slippery slope toward totalitarianism.

[h2co-pilot]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Watch this video and then argue in favor of Kerry's words

Some of the "dumb" Armed Forces members

Even Kerry is saying that he did not mean it in that way, tho some here defend in how it was interpretted at first.

Time to apologize Mr. Heinz.

[DennisAJC]

Kerry has served his country.

He has experienced war and seen death at ground level (Not at 30,000 feet).

Therefore he has a right to his views.

He does not need to apologize IMO.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by DennisAJC

Kerry has served his country.

He has experienced war and seen death at ground level (Not at 30,000 feet).

Therefore he has a right to his views.

He does not need to apologize IMO.

No, he doesn't. He needs to shut the fuck up and resign his senatorship.

[GeorgeSSSS]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

No, he doesn't. He needs to shut the fuck up and resign his senatorship.

x10

[CO Hummer]

I think you guys are making too much of Kerry's "intentions" and "opinions". The guy is an idiot. He never expressess any form of REAL opinion. He is 101% driven to say only what he thinks will get him votes or make him popular. He has NO depth at all, not even a trace amount. He is simply a monitor-the-polls-and-react idiot. The fact that he's incompetent is demonstrated by his continual "oopsies" like this one.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by CO Hummer

I think you guys are making too much of Kerry's "intentions" and "opinions". The guy is an idiot. He never expressess any form of REAL opinion. He is 101% driven to say only what he thinks will get him votes or make him popular. He has NO depth at all, not even a trace amount. He is simply a monitor-the-polls-and-react idiot. The fact that he's incompetent is demonstrated by his continual "oopsies" like this one.

I agree wholeheartedly. Problem is that he was the Presidential nominee and is considered the leader for the Democratic Party. Notwithstanding that, he is also currently a United States Senator. By denigrating the Military of which he owes most of his political power to, he should cast some serious doubt upon the party as whole on just what is important. Polls or lives.

[Scouts Out]

you need to read his own notes about his service, first he presented himself as a hero making sure he got all the fun medals and his guys who were with him got Jack, then he decided he wanted to be a democrat so he became a war criminal who shot unarmed civilians , then when they threatened to charge him so he claimed he was a war criminal not for shooting civilians but for using a M2 (.50 cal) on dismounts, and as the Geneva Convetion says any good military officer or NCO will tell you has never been illegal. Then he decided he want to be president he want to be a decorated veteran.

He is a Jack ass, but our jack ass so you need to move to the US and vote if you want to support him or other wise state you opinion, we will say "oh that is good you have and opion" and lets move on to Quebec's efforts for independence.

Mean while he is no more a grunt than a pilot is as he rode up and down the river on his fast boat. He never dismounted, he never partolled on foot thru the night in the jungle. Swift boats were a tough job, a very honorable MOS but he went home each night as the infantryman slept day and weeks in the field

I am a Cavalryman and do alot of the same stuff as the infantry man but no one will every experience what they deal with day and night so I never would place myself, after 2 tours, in the same categoory as them.

Kerry was a politiciaan even when in the service, he was looking for medals and a resume booster while in.

[KenP]

That track of him is going to be playing full time on Al-Jazeera, emboldening the insurgents.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

... But to oppress or ban opposing viewpoints is the road to totalitarianism. Dictatorships are full of blind, obedient patriotic citizens who don't think for themselves, use only one source of information and follow a single-minded ideology. That path leads to the antithesis of democracy and freedom - fascism, jihad, and crusade.

There's a difference between "majority rules" and "might makes right". Even within a democracy, when people blindly follow their leaders, their party or their own ideology, they disrespect what democracy exists for. Ultimately, although the US was founded with a political structure of checks, balances and democracy, it's only as democratic as the people who think for themselves, stay informed, consider opposing viewpoints, make up their own mind and vote their own conscience. Anything else is the slippery slope toward totalitarianism.

This is such crap. Just because we disagree with the lefties who ARE NOT in the White House, and instead agree on many issues with our President, doesn't mean that we are "blind, obedient patriotic citizens who don't think for themselves." I, and I assume most who agree with Bush's foreign policy, have thought their opinions through very carefully and intelligently. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean that we are "people blindly follow their leaders, their party or their own ideology."

By the way: That arrogant (yet oddly stupid) theory is mostly unique to the liberal/Democrat crowd. When Clinton was in office, many conservatives dramatically disagreed with his policies and his followers. Nevertheless, I can't recall any significant number of conservatives moronically claiming that the liberals were heading us to Dictatorship because they were “blindly following” the man. We just disagreed with them and said so. It’s a poor substitute for a real argument to simply accuse people who don’t accept your views as “oppressors.”

By the way #2: The slippery slope argument is one of the most overused, overextended metaphors. Success in life is basically all about moderation and focus. The former concept defies the slippery slope concept altogether. It can be applied to anything, and usually is in a paranoid result-oriented manner:

- If we ban porn in the elementary schools, pretty soon, they’ll be coming after our political speech.

- If someone criticizes my venomous attacks on President Bush, they will soon be sending me to a concentration camp.

Slippery slopes are not that slippery.

For example, most people, including me, condemn the Japanese internments. But you cannot make a case that it paved the way for other such transgressions. If it set any precedent at all it set trends in the opposite direction. In 1988, the United States Congress formally apologized for the internment and appropriated money to compensate the 60,000 survivors. The same thing holds true for pretty much every such civil-liberties "outrage" in American history. Habeas corpus was reinstated after the Civil War and, over the next 150 year, became an even stricter legal standard. After all of the revelations of the 1960s and 1970s about wiretaps and secret files, Congress made it more, not less, difficult to abuse the civil rights of citizens.

This exposes the main flaw with slippery-slope arguments. Much like conspiracy theories, they reflect more imagination and less hard thinking than usually required. When we go "too far" one way, we are more likely to swing back the other way than to keep sliding in the wrong direction. It's called the law of unintended consequences. FDR may have been right or wrong when he used military tribunal for icing a few Nazi spies, but that's a stand-alone argument; it didn't launch any long-term authoritarian trend.

So, if you're going to get mad when people reject your attacks on our President or even your “mindless following” of Ted Kennedy,” that's perfectly legitimate. But please bring something more to the table than a slippery-slope argument — because we've been sliding uphill for more than two centuries.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

Much like conspiracy theories, they reflect more imagination and less hard thinking than usually required.

Could this be why so many artistic types are liberal....... hmmm.





MH, instead of the Marine Corps, you should have gone to law school and sought the attorney's path and not the loser military path. As a Marine, you make a very convincing counselor.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Could this be why so many artistic types are liberal....... hmmm.
MH, instead of the Marine Corps, you should have gone to law school and sought the attorney's path and not the loser military path. As a Marine, you make a very convincing counselor.

You know, I thought about it, but as a Lance Corporal in the Corps in 1990, I quickly grew to realize that my mild retardation would never permit me even to get a GED, much less a law degree. Now, I'm stuck in Iraq with all those other mentally and morally inferior types.

[Mr. I - Man]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

You know, I thought about it, but as a Lance Corporal in the Corps in 1990, I quickly grew to realize that my mild retardation would never permit me even to get a GED, much less a law degree. Now, I'm stuck in Iraq with all those other mentally and morally inferior types.

I would have been stuck in Iraq as well, but I was late and missed the yellow short bus that morning.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

You know, I thought about it, but as a Lance Corporal in the Corps in 1990, I quickly grew to realize that my mild retardation would never permit me even to get a GED, much less a law degree. Now, I'm stuck in Iraq with all those other mentally and morally inferior types.

Wow, did you go through MCRDPI? If so, when and what platoon?

[wpage]

Both Kerry and Murtha need to spend a night sleeping out on the ground wondering if someone is going to kill them while they slumber. Evidently they have forgotten thier bretheren in arms.
The Jihadists are loving it!
Being in the line of fire is no joke!

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

This is such crap. Just because we disagree with the lefties who ARE NOT in the White House, and instead agree on many issues with our President, doesn't mean that we are "blind, obedient patriotic citizens who don't think for themselves." I, and I assume most who agree with Bush's foreign policy, have thought their opinions through very carefully and intelligently. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean that we are "people blindly follow their leaders, their party or their own ideology."

I see your point MarineHawk. I didn't say that everyone who agrees with the current administration is blind or hasn't thought it through, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I meant that too many political activists (on both the right and left) are uninformed followers who don't think for themselves but are all too willing to shut down any other point of view.

I also didn't say (or mean) that the GOP is leading us down the road to totalitarianism. It's not one party or the other that flushes democracy down the toilet ... it's disrespect for differing points of view and refusal to seek common ground. It doesn't matter how much I disagree with someone, I love a well-spoken rational argument because there's always something new to learn or consider. Whether I change my mind or not, I'm better off because I've thought about an issue in a new way.

True, the "slippery slope" is an overused metaphor. In this context, I am saying that anyone who thinks they are infallibly right and refuses to hear other points of view (because "all liberals are commies" or "all conservatives are nazis") is on dangerous ground. When this happens in politics (right or left) and the opposition is silenced, it can lead to totalitarianism.

The best way to preserve democracy and find workable compromise is to examine opposing points of view. It allows us to see all sides of an issue and reminds us that we don't know everything. If we unilaterally shut down everyone who disagrees with us regardless of their reasoning or politics, we are opposing the nature of democracy.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

btw, I haven't attacked the President and I'm not angry about anything. and I already posted that Kerry was wrong for saying that about the troops.