Another Broke Tie Rod

[Bad Dawg]

Well, like I already said, we did not stay on the throttle and we were not blasting through the obstacle. We were climbing up a hill at the same speed four other H2's had just done. Very good advice though for those who haven't wheeled before. I know you guys think the H2 is without any problems and anything that happens has GOT to be the drivers fault (Gee, sounds like the typical Hummer rep response). I am honestly not here to bad mouth the H2. We REALLY liked it. But after three straight outings with breakage we figured we would cut our losses. I shared our experiance to get a conversation going about a known problem and for folks to share solutions they have found, and I thank those who contributed.

The dealer offerd us $44K and we keep the rack, lights, ladder and winch. Happy trails, folks.

[Bad Dawg]

Well, like I already said, we did not stay on the throttle and we were not blasting through the obstacle. We were climbing up a hill at the same speed four other H2's had just done. Very good advice though for those who haven't wheeled before. I know you guys think the H2 is without any problems and anything that happens has GOT to be the drivers fault (Gee, sounds like the typical Hummer rep response). I am honestly not here to bad mouth the H2. We REALLY liked it. But after three straight outings with breakage we figured we would cut our losses. I shared our experiance to get a conversation going about a known problem and for folks to share solutions they have found, and I thank those who contributed.

The dealer offerd us $44K and we keep the rack, lights, ladder and winch. Happy trails, folks.

[BKLYNH2]

Ok- So perhaps my previous post answers a) and b) don't apply, but not neccessarily. A product manager may just be a guy that's good at moving cars off the lot. I'm sure there are a few engineers that designed the H2 that couldn't hold a candle to some of the forum members here, out on a trail. Perhaps the guy was just trying to massage your ego. Did you get your upgrades through him? If you don't want to accept any responsibility for your driving technique then maybe look at the fact that you modified the stock vehicle, and perhaps did not complete the job. Maybe beefing up the tie rods as well as some other components becomes a neccessary evil after lifting the vehicle and increasing tire size, given your style of driving. The guys making lifts don't know if your cruising the mall or running Baja, so why would they tell you that other modifications may be neccessary. I assume that Rod Hall isn't racing H2's with all stock parts either. I'm all for people modifying their H2, but once you start that process you also must accept responsibility for the results. I believe the H2 meets or exceeds the goals of it's design. Comparing the H1's progression and redesign to the H2 isn't really applicable either as the H1 is designed and held to a much different criteria than the H2.
There are far too many great H2 offroad stories and pics on this site alone to give your viewpoint any merit. Sounds more like sour grapes.

[BKLYNH2]

Ok- So perhaps my previous post answers a) and b) don't apply, but not neccessarily. A product manager may just be a guy that's good at moving cars off the lot. I'm sure there are a few engineers that designed the H2 that couldn't hold a candle to some of the forum members here, out on a trail. Perhaps the guy was just trying to massage your ego. Did you get your upgrades through him? If you don't want to accept any responsibility for your driving technique then maybe look at the fact that you modified the stock vehicle, and perhaps did not complete the job. Maybe beefing up the tie rods as well as some other components becomes a neccessary evil after lifting the vehicle and increasing tire size, given your style of driving. The guys making lifts don't know if your cruising the mall or running Baja, so why would they tell you that other modifications may be neccessary. I assume that Rod Hall isn't racing H2's with all stock parts either. I'm all for people modifying their H2, but once you start that process you also must accept responsibility for the results. I believe the H2 meets or exceeds the goals of it's design. Comparing the H1's progression and redesign to the H2 isn't really applicable either as the H1 is designed and held to a much different criteria than the H2.
There are far too many great H2 offroad stories and pics on this site alone to give your viewpoint any merit. Sounds more like sour grapes.

[HummerLV]

bad dawg,
since you have to let it go, i don't want you to be upset every time you go into the garage and stub your toe on the rack, ladder and winch, so how much are you willing to sell them for so you have peace of mind???

[HummerLV]

bad dawg,
since you have to let it go, i don't want you to be upset every time you go into the garage and stub your toe on the rack, ladder and winch, so how much are you willing to sell them for so you have peace of mind???

[BKLYNH2]

He he

[BKLYNH2]

He he

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:
I know you guys think the H2 is without any problems and anything that happens has GOT to be the drivers fault (Gee, sounds like the typical Hummer rep response). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is a difference between "having problems" and there being a design flaw, at which you are trying to say. The tie rod is obviously a weak link, but it is a weak link on many vehicles. Personally I would rather be replacing $50 tie rods than replacing a front differential or something. The tie rod bending might be an indicator of something wrong, either in setup or driving and is bending for a reason. It did not bend on the other H2s, as you mentioned, going over the same obstacle, so the only logical reasoning is either your setup caused it or your driving did. Why is that so hard to grasp from our perspective?

As someone has stated on the board before, the tie rod can be considered something like a "fuse" for the front end, bending or breaking before major damage occurs. By the way, many, if not most, off-roaders (before there were H2s or H1s) carried extra tie rods. It is probably the most common breakage on the trail.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:
I know you guys think the H2 is without any problems and anything that happens has GOT to be the drivers fault (Gee, sounds like the typical Hummer rep response). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There is a difference between "having problems" and there being a design flaw, at which you are trying to say. The tie rod is obviously a weak link, but it is a weak link on many vehicles. Personally I would rather be replacing $50 tie rods than replacing a front differential or something. The tie rod bending might be an indicator of something wrong, either in setup or driving and is bending for a reason. It did not bend on the other H2s, as you mentioned, going over the same obstacle, so the only logical reasoning is either your setup caused it or your driving did. Why is that so hard to grasp from our perspective?

As someone has stated on the board before, the tie rod can be considered something like a "fuse" for the front end, bending or breaking before major damage occurs. By the way, many, if not most, off-roaders (before there were H2s or H1s) carried extra tie rods. It is probably the most common breakage on the trail.

[FrgMstr]

I think something VERY important was hit on here but is not being given much merit and that is BTM. I got into several situations in the last two weeks where I have seen other H2s break things. We however did not and I make sure to keep one foot on the break at all times to "stop" any wheel spin when tires come off the ground or lose traction.

If you are not doing this, it is very likely that your front end problems are DRIVER ERROR. I don't see any trucks out there that are going to take the abuse of having huge and heavy 35 or 37 inch tires and wheels slammed back into the ground while rotating fast. You might also have to take into account the 7000 pounds sitting on those tires as well. That energy HAS to be absorbed by something and if the spinning tire is forced into the ground to where it gets traction enough to stop it from spnning that energy is going right into the front end.

Front Locker is next on my list of modifications.

Anyway, that is just my opinion and I am not trying to force it on anyone, but years of 4x4 experience, do not equate to years of H2 driving experience. It is quite a different vehicle.

[FrgMstr]

I think something VERY important was hit on here but is not being given much merit and that is BTM. I got into several situations in the last two weeks where I have seen other H2s break things. We however did not and I make sure to keep one foot on the break at all times to "stop" any wheel spin when tires come off the ground or lose traction.

If you are not doing this, it is very likely that your front end problems are DRIVER ERROR. I don't see any trucks out there that are going to take the abuse of having huge and heavy 35 or 37 inch tires and wheels slammed back into the ground while rotating fast. You might also have to take into account the 7000 pounds sitting on those tires as well. That energy HAS to be absorbed by something and if the spinning tire is forced into the ground to where it gets traction enough to stop it from spnning that energy is going right into the front end.

Front Locker is next on my list of modifications.

Anyway, that is just my opinion and I am not trying to force it on anyone, but years of 4x4 experience, do not equate to years of H2 driving experience. It is quite a different vehicle.

[DURAMAX TIM]

Bad Dog I'm over at the place quite often.
The person making the SS sleeves is over there too.
Seems the tierods won't stand up to 500 or 600hp Dmax 4wd launches on asphalt.
Hate to see u get rid of the H2.
U got a PM and pic.

[DURAMAX TIM]

Bad Dog I'm over at the place quite often.
The person making the SS sleeves is over there too.
Seems the tierods won't stand up to 500 or 600hp Dmax 4wd launches on asphalt.
Hate to see u get rid of the H2.
U got a PM and pic.

[Bad Dawg]

Mr Paragon, one more time....I have already said it was my fault. I overestimated the capabilities of the H2 for my needs. Why is that so hard for you to hear (read)? Could it have been my driving or my wife's? Maybe but if we were going any slower we would have been stopped. That leaves two other explainations. One is that the mild lift, larger more aggressive tires, slightly wider wheels with slightly more offset and a winch on the front all contributed to pushing the H2's tie rod capabilities beyond it's threshhold of strength. The second could simply be that the tie rods (and perhaps the whole front end) need to be beefier. Actually, there could be a third reason, that being a combination of the first two. I believe it's behind door number three.

FRGMSTR - You are so right. I have been wheeling since I came home from Nam in '72 and the H2 is a whole different beast.

DURAMAXTIM - I forgot how to get to the PM ( ). Uh, Are you saying you have some experiance with launching a 500 to 600hp Dmax? Wow. I'm impressed. Mine is only 400hp. Thanks for the info. I may look into them for my Dmax. The H2 goes to the dealer as soon as I take off the rack and ladder. Dispite what folks might think, we REALLY liked ours and we wish we could feel confident it would have held up without spending another thousand dollars. Besides, I heard yesterday that regular gas is expected to hit $3 a gallon by July.

[Bad Dawg]

Mr Paragon, one more time....I have already said it was my fault. I overestimated the capabilities of the H2 for my needs. Why is that so hard for you to hear (read)? Could it have been my driving or my wife's? Maybe but if we were going any slower we would have been stopped. That leaves two other explainations. One is that the mild lift, larger more aggressive tires, slightly wider wheels with slightly more offset and a winch on the front all contributed to pushing the H2's tie rod capabilities beyond it's threshhold of strength. The second could simply be that the tie rods (and perhaps the whole front end) need to be beefier. Actually, there could be a third reason, that being a combination of the first two. I believe it's behind door number three.

FRGMSTR - You are so right. I have been wheeling since I came home from Nam in '72 and the H2 is a whole different beast.

DURAMAXTIM - I forgot how to get to the PM ( ). Uh, Are you saying you have some experiance with launching a 500 to 600hp Dmax? Wow. I'm impressed. Mine is only 400hp. Thanks for the info. I may look into them for my Dmax. The H2 goes to the dealer as soon as I take off the rack and ladder. Dispite what folks might think, we REALLY liked ours and we wish we could feel confident it would have held up without spending another thousand dollars. Besides, I heard yesterday that regular gas is expected to hit $3 a gallon by July.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:
Mr Paragon, one more time....I have already said it was my fault. I overestimated the capabilities of the H2 for my needs. Why is that so hard for you to hear (read)? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, Mr. Bill Clinton double-speak. It is very clear what you are saying, that's why you are getting a response.

If you "were going any slower you would have been stopped" then why did your "front end start bouncing", were you jumping up and down on it or something. Only speed, either in wheel spin or vehicle speed is going to cause the front end to start bouncing.

You didn't overestimate the capabilities of the H2, as stated here before, compare what you were doing to the pics and videos from PhilD, FRGMSTR, JNSFOX, ALEC W, Detonate, DRTYFN, etc. You overestimated YOUR common sense and insulting everyone's intelligence by claiming otherwise.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad Dawg:
Mr Paragon, one more time....I have already said it was my fault. I overestimated the capabilities of the H2 for my needs. Why is that so hard for you to hear (read)? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, Mr. Bill Clinton double-speak. It is very clear what you are saying, that's why you are getting a response.

If you "were going any slower you would have been stopped" then why did your "front end start bouncing", were you jumping up and down on it or something. Only speed, either in wheel spin or vehicle speed is going to cause the front end to start bouncing.

You didn't overestimate the capabilities of the H2, as stated here before, compare what you were doing to the pics and videos from PhilD, FRGMSTR, JNSFOX, ALEC W, Detonate, DRTYFN, etc. You overestimated YOUR common sense and insulting everyone's intelligence by claiming otherwise.

[Bad Dawg]

Well, I knew you would get down to this level sooner or later. You usually do. I have been talking about myself, my rig and the problems I have had with it. You, sir, always seem to start attacking people on a personal level as soon as you see the opportunity. You seem to take any critique of the H2 as a personal attack. Don't you get tired of taking almost every thread down to this level where the topic gets lost in your ranting? Get a life.

For all of those who are reading this to try to find some useful information I appologize for letting the door open for Paragon to trash yet another thread.

[Bad Dawg]

Well, I knew you would get down to this level sooner or later. You usually do. I have been talking about myself, my rig and the problems I have had with it. You, sir, always seem to start attacking people on a personal level as soon as you see the opportunity. You seem to take any critique of the H2 as a personal attack. Don't you get tired of taking almost every thread down to this level where the topic gets lost in your ranting? Get a life.

For all of those who are reading this to try to find some useful information I appologize for letting the door open for Paragon to trash yet another thread.