Good Guy VS. Bad Guy

[DennisAJC]

DOH!!!!

I've actually seen those pics of Dragon's ugly mug. I want some action pics!

[LasVegas]

DRAGON....I'm with you, mostly. I own guns and wouldn't hesitate one second to use them defending myself, my family, OR my dogs. And I want the continued right to own them. But using them to kill defenseless animals in this day & age don't get it. Give the weapon to the animals and let them stalk the human! See how they like it. Better yet, try hunting/killing animals with just yourself and what mother nature provides you and see who's the smarter. And no, before anyone asks I don't belong to PETA. I just respect animals and consider many of them smarter than some people.

[BlackDragon]

Huh? I'm kinda getting the impression that people are thinking I'm saying it's OK to kill animals - I'm not! Life is precious, and my comments about "I'll only eat what I could kill" are based on if it became a necessity to do so - out of choice, I wouldn't kill anything!!

[Kevin B]

I eat animals because they are made of meat. I find it funny that vegetarians make hamburger shapped patties out of vegetablas . If you want to eat vegetables eat vegetables, don't try to desguise them as a meat product.

The rabbits that eat my lawn get killed. Do I feel bad about killing them? No. Would I kill a human eating my lawn? No. Would I kill a terrorist if I were in the military? Yes. All of the videos (i think) were military, I think that makes them different.

L.V. please explain, I must be one of the stupid ones your refering to <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I just respect animals and consider many of them smarter than people.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Klaus]

I'm curious - How do you animal rights people rationalize purchasing a vehicle with a leather interior?

[GeorgeSSSS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I'm curious - How do you animal rights people rationalize purchasing a vehicle with a leather interior? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Answer: They keep their eyes closed.

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by N2ITNSD:

L.V. please explain, I must be one of the stupid ones your refering to [quote]I just respect animals and consider many of them smarter than people. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't think I used the word "stupid" in my post. That's your interpretation.

1. I eat meat.
2. I believe those animals we eat should be slaughtered in a humane manner.
3. How many people vs animals were lost in the Tsunami?
4. Animals for the most part have never set out to stalk and kill humans. But we in our infinite "wisdom" call it sport while using enough firepower to blow up the countryside and then proud of ourselves because we're "smarter" than them. Bit lopsided isn't it?
5. I believe in controlled hunting for the betterment of a species.
6. I believe in the war in Iraq. The bad guys that get killed there deserve it.

Just had to cover as many bases as possible to avoid as much flaming as possible.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a PETA nut. I've just spent enough time around animals to respect their intelligence, feelings and willingness to give more than they receive. Unfortunately I can't say the same about all the people I've known. Call it whatever you want.

[Kevin B]

So what would be the opposite of smarter be then .

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by N2ITNSD:
So what would be the opposite of smarter be then . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Less smarter

[Kevin B]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Less smarter
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

O.K. my bad

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
I'm curious - How do you animal rights people rationalize purchasing a vehicle with a leather interior? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Klaus. I'm not an animal "rights" person. I love my leather interior and have 6 sheepskin pelt rugs in various places in my home. I just don't believe in killing for the sake of killing or personal pleasure, human or animal.

[Klaus]

Fair enough LV. I love animals as well. I once told my apartment manager that it would be extremely bad if someone let my cat out of my apartment while I was not there. She then asked me if my cat was that dangerous. I said no, but that I was! She got the message.

[PARAGON]

Ok, you guys can dress things up however you want. You believe in degrees of killing and you tidy the whole thing up to make you feel warm and fuzzy inside by overemphasizing one potential aspect.

First point is that guns are not just used to kill. And when they are, most hunters attempt to be as accurate as possible to make a clean kill. Don't attempt to explain things you can't seem to understand. I do not enjoy the single aspect of killing. I do enjoy when I make a clean shot resulting in a clean kill. I do understand that I am a part of nature and not just some observer on the outside and that if it weren't for hunters like me, you would not get to see the animals you hold so precious. I guess balance of nature doesn't equate with you guys. I am sure you are fine with the killing predatory animals if they were killing people or killing the livestock that would have otherwise ended up as your Saturday night dinner.

Now to suggest that slaughtering is somehow more humane than me hunting an animal that has more abilities to evade me than I do to take him is simply ridiculous. Mainly there is nothing humane in the way the meat that you buy from the supermarket was harvested. This is a little absurb. I suggest before you condemn others, you do a little hands on research. Please visit any pork, chicken or beef operation and view it from beginning to end and tell me where does humane come into play.

I take great pleasure in providing habitat for the animals in which I hunt on an open range. I take great pleasure trying to outwit them and their many heightened senses of which I have to attempt to employ numerous different ways to overcome. LV, the comment of saying give them guns is simply asinine. I suppose we should condemn all predators for killing an animal for their food or condemn most cat owners because they let their cats out that kill defenseless mice and birds but do not consume them. They simply do it for the pleasure.

Candy coat things how you like that makes you feel better in life but don't expect people of logic to somehow believe that not hunting animals is somehow "smarter". You know it's Ok if you don't like vanilla ice cream but don't try to impune me because I do. And yes it boils down to being that simple. You don't like it, fine. But that does not make it wrong no matter how you try to dress it up.

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
Fair enough LV. I love animals as well. I once told my apartment manager that it would be extremely bad if someone let my cat out of my apartment while I was not there. She then asked me if my cat was that dangerous. I said no, but that I was! She got the message. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LasVegas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
I'm curious - How do you animal rights people rationalize purchasing a vehicle with a leather interior? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Klaus. I'm not an animal "rights" person. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



To prove yourself, you must go next door and kill your neighbours's dog.

[Klaus]

Paragon,

My personal opinion is that if you want to hunt, by all means do so. I don't because it is too easy to go to the store. However, I support everyone’s right to hunt.

IMHO, once someone has decided to use animals for food or clothing it really doesn't matter whether it comes from the slaughter house or a hunter's field. The animal is still dead.

I get aggravated when someone takes the stand that they don't believe in killing animals while they enjoy animal products such as leather interiors.

It reminds me of the "No Blood for Oil" bumper stickers. I guess what was in their vehicle's tank didn't count.

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PARAGON:
Ok, you guys can dress things up however you want. You believe in degrees of killing and you tidy the whole thing up to make you feel warm and fuzzy inside by overemphasizing one potential aspect.

First point is that guns are not just used to kill. And when they are, most hunters attempt to be as accurate as possible to make a clean kill. Don't attempt to explain things you can't seem to understand. I do not enjoy the single aspect of killing. I do enjoy when I make a clean shot resulting in a clean kill. I do understand that I am a part of nature and not just some observer on the outside and that if it weren't for hunters like me, you would not get to see the animals you hold so precious. I guess balance of nature doesn't equate with you guys. I am sure you are fine with the killing predatory animals if they were killing people or killing the livestock that would have otherwise ended up as your Saturday night dinner.

Now to suggest that slaughtering is somehow more humane than me hunting an animal that has more abilities to evade me than I do to take him is simply ridiculous. Mainly there is nothing humane in the way the meat that you buy from the supermarket was harvested. This is a little absurb. I suggest before you condemn others, you do a little hands on research. Please visit any pork, chicken or beef operation and view it from beginning to end and tell me where does humane come into play.

I take great pleasure in providing habitat for the animals in which I hunt on an open range. I take great pleasure trying to outwit them and their many heightened senses of which I have to attempt to employ numerous different ways to overcome. LV, the comment of saying give them guns is simply asinine. I suppose we should condemn all predators for killing an animal for their food or condemn most cat owners because they let their cats out that kill defenseless mice and birds but do not consume them. They simply do it for the pleasure.

Candy coat things how you like that makes you feel better in life but don't expect people of logic to somehow believe that not hunting animals is somehow "smarter". You know it's Ok if you don't like vanilla ice cream but don't try to impune me because I do. And yes it boils down to being that simple. You don't like it, fine. But that does not make it wrong no matter how you try to dress it up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I said "should" be slaughtered in a humane way, not are slaughtered in a humane way. I believe I said I agreed with controlled hunting. Hunt all you like. That's your perogative. Try doing it on an equal basis sometime without your arsenal. It might be more satisfying if you ever kill something. Cats hunt out of instinct to sharpen their skills that were necessary for survival. Never said that not hunting makes me or anyone else smarter. Believe me, nothing was candy coated because I don't care what you or anyone else does. That's your measure to deal with. Just stating my position as you so aptly said we're all entitiled to. And yes, I've still had animals with more common sense than a lot of people I've known.

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DennisAJC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LasVegas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
I'm curious - How do you animal rights people rationalize purchasing a vehicle with a leather interior? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Klaus. I'm not an animal "rights" person. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



To prove yourself, you must go next door and kill your neighbours's dog. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ssshhhhh. Be vewy vewwwy quiet. I'm hunting dogs with an AK-47!

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
Paragon,

My personal opinion is that if you want to hunt, by all means do so. I don't because it is too easy to go to the store. However, I support everyone’s right to hunt.

IMHO, once someone has decided to use animals for food or clothing it really doesn't matter whether it comes from the slaughter house or a hunter's field. The animal is still dead.

I get aggravated when someone takes the stand that they don't believe in killing animals while they enjoy animal products such as leather interiors.

It reminds me of the "No Blood for Oil" bumper stickers. I guess what was in their vehicle's tank didn't count. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly

[PARAGON]

As a hunter I have encountered arguments such as this quite often and am just amazed at where the lines are drawn. It's OK to kill mice, snakes, bugs or even plant forms but somehow there is a line drawn (for many) there and anything above that killed is somehow wrong.

It is worse for me when someone is mischaracterizing hunting (granted there are those that are inhumane and do not treat it sportingly). In a normal deer hunting season, I spend about $3000 on food seed and supplements for the animals on my land, spend about 200 hours keeping the land habitable by game and non-game species and then spend about 150 hours hunting and on average kill 2 deer, of which I take to a processor and have the meat processed into sausage and chopped patties. I receive enjoyment and relaxation from the whole thing. I have a digital camera and a digital video recorder with me on my hunts and shoot tons of photos and hours of video throughout the year because I observe animals that I do not intend to take at that time.

LV, you have twice stated something to the effect of evening the odds by not using my compound bow, magnum rifle or in-line muzzleloader. This is where you have a grave misunderstanding of what and why a hunter does what he does. Most hunters are interested in a clean kill and utilizing any weapon that diminishes this ability I consider very inhumane. Even hunting with a bow where you have to be within 30-35 yards of the game, death is not as clean as it is with a rifle. Also, please understand that these game animals are indeed very smart because they live life minute by minute like their life depends upon it. This is not because of us hunters it is because in nature, they are naturally prey and it is instinct for them.

I think I fairly represent the average hunter also and don't feel it is honest to mischaracterize either how we take the game or the level of intelligence that game animals have and their natural born ability to elude the hunter.

Now aside from that, the FBI profiles serial killers early in life by those who very arbitrary in killing of animals. Those that get some lust or satisfaction from the actual kill. As I said I, and I think most hunters, get know satisfaction from the kill itself. There is no bloodlust. If there where I wouldn't worry about how I manage the wildlife on my property.