Turn Signal Mirrors

[HUMRCHIC]

Are they available for the H3? I've seen them on some H2's.

[HUMRCHIC]

Are they available for the H3? I've seen them on some H2's.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMRCHIC:
Are they available for the H3? I've seen them on some H2's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes they are, and mine will be here tomorrow, if UPS keeps their schedule. They will be installed on Saturday. Just to go www.kwmuth.com, and order. They are $219.00 plus shipping and for $269.00 for the mirrors and another $69.00 for the unit, you can have heated signal mirrors. I opted just for the regular non-heated signal mirrors.
As for the install, well, their directions are quite good (available at their website), but not sure about the electrical connections.
They show connecting to the turn signal circuits behind the I/P, yet, a few months ago, I talked with Chris, one of their engineers and explained the rear signal wires run down each kick panel, under the edges of the carpet.
You have to remove the door panel, the mirror, and disassemble part of the mirror to install the mirrors. You also have to remove the kick panels, that is why I would suggest taping into the rear signal wires at the kick panel versus removing the I/P cluster.
If that works, I'll post some photos on Sunday or Monday.

[First Hummer]

bad link dude

[HUMRCHIC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">www.kwmuth.com </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doesn't work.

[f5fstop]

Signal Mirrors

Disregard not only the first link, but also the idea to tap in at the kick panel. Being old, I forget which car I'm working on, and the rear bulb is all inclusive (turn/stop/park), not like my Vettes that had separate park/stop and turn signal bulbs.
You will have to follow their instructions, remove the cluster and tap into the two wires from the switch to the cluster.

[fourfourto]

There nice to bad they dont have a rectange blind spot mirror.Ill be waiting for the pics

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fourfourto:
There nice to bad they dont have a rectange blind spot mirror.Ill be waiting for the pics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll take some pics. Have to settle for those little round convex mirror.

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Heading out to the shop to tear the hummer apart to install the mirrors.

[Mike E]

f5fstop, post some pics later when you get them installed!

[deicustoms1]

F5 - instead of removing the cluster to get the turn signals.

They can be picked up at the BCM:
Turn Signal(L) - lt. blue (F), yellow (R) + BCM, black plug, pins A3, B1
Turn Signal(R) - dk. blue (F), dk. green (R) + BCM, black plug, pins A19, B2

[fourfourto]

Figured <span class="ev_code_RED">You</span> would have them installed in under a hour

My wife wants those mirrors.But just getting the eclipse system im broke..Maybee I'll use pay pal funds,but I was going to get new radiator for the 442.

Question for everybody

Amber
O
R
Red

For the arrows?

[f5fstop]

Under an hour, they are still not installed. (Ever have a day you should not leave the house?)
Removing door panels and mirrors under 15 minutes. MAKE SURE WINDOW IS DOWN, or you will have to plug in the switch to lower it. You cannot access inside bolts to mirror unless window is down...ALL THE WAY.
Disassembling the mirrors to install the wires...20 minutes. BUT....trying to feed the wires through the rubber grommet where the mirror housing meets the doors is next to impossible. GM sized the inside of that grommet to be smaller than the factory wires, so that it remains sealed.
Time to break first mirror, priceless.
Ok, here is a problem with their instructions, and with someone who has done this many times before on numerous other cars. I assumed, pushed and cut the F out of my hand.
Here are the problems....
When you pry up the old mirror, Muth assumes the pivot bracket will stay on the mirror actuator, mine didn't, and I never really paid any attention. So, make sure the big ring pivot bracket stays on the actuator, if it doesn't, you have to pry it off the old mirror and snap back onto the actuator to install the new mirror.
Old dumbsh*t sitting here, didn't check. Then when I went to snap the new mirror in place, it shattered, and yes, MR Dumbsh*t sitting here, was NOT wearing leather gloves. (I have never broken a mirror, so I became lax...WEAR LEATHER GLOVES that will protect your hand. Take this from someone with first hand experience. )

Ok, so now I have a shattered mirror, so I tape the wiring connector to the inside of the mirror harness, and go onto the next mirror. I installed the wiring and left the connector taped to the inside of the housing. I'll install the glass and connect after I receive the replacement mirror.
Install mirror housings to doors...10 minutes.
Running that damn wire through the molex door connectors....pain in the a**. Make sure to have someone with small hands nearby, and who knows how to remove the connector half from inside the door. My fat left hand could not make it (right hand was full of bandages ).
Lucky for me, a friend was nearby working on his ZO6, so I borrowed his hands.
RUN WINDOW ALL THE WAY UP TO REMOVE INSIDE DOOR CONNECTOR.
Also, disconnect the one bolt to the check link to gain an inch of space between door and frame.
Disconnect the connector by sliding up the gray handle till it snaps in place at the top of the connector, pull the connector straight back and out.
Drill the hole as shown...slowly, in order not to disturb the other pins. Now, someone with small hands, has to reach inside the door, around the windows bracket, and push at the top of the connector, remove it, then drill a corresponding hole. To install, is harder, tilt it in from the bottom, and snap in place. (Sounds easy, but it wasn't and if Steve was not around, I would have had to stop there.)
(You may be able to remove the speaker and reach up from the bottom, noticed this after we did the connectors, but didn't verify it would be easier. But from the bottom up, you don't have to worry about the window run channel inside the door.
Now, trying to run the wire through the rubber tube to inside the door is more fun than playing Russian roulette with a fully loaded gun. If you can run a wire through that rubber tube, through the grommet, you are a better man than we were. I cheated, ran the wire on the outside, and sealing the rubber tube and grommet with Kent Industries Leak Chek.

Install the door panels...make sure those J-nuts or U-nuts (whatever you want to call them), that are used to retain the three screws are fastened tightly against the metal frame. Mine weren't, and had to remove the door panel again to crimp them in place. Second door panel the same way, but at least I checked before installing the door panel so I didn't have to remove.
Time so far, about four hours.
I did not connect the electrical wiring to the grounds or the signal circuits, had to leave. However, updated information there is a large inline connector near the grommet that you feed the wires through. Disconnecting the connector gives you added clearance to see what you are doing. However, be careful when reinstalling, easy to bend a pin. I thought I have accidently broken the BCM voltage wire to the park lock solenoid, since the car would not go into park and I had to manually bypass the solenoid. However, on closer inspection this morning, I had actually bent the pin upon reconnecting the connector. I have straightened it out, and everything works great.end of update
To sum it up, these mirrors look great, and in my opinion are a great safety feature. Not so much for you, but the small car that you might run over. However, if you are not good at running wire, be careful and WEAR LEATHER GLOVES, and watch those fishing wires near that connector.

RED to match the signals in the rear, and not sure if they offer amber for the H3.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deicustoms:
F5 - instead of removing the cluster to get the turn signals.

They can be picked up at the BCM:
Turn Signal(L) - lt. blue (F), yellow (R) + BCM, black plug, pins A3, B1 You cannot connect to these wires. Understand how the BCM operates. Pin A3 is to the front turn signals; and to the DRL lamps. Your DRL are the turn signals. So, if you connect the signal mirrors to this circuit, the mirros will be on all the time. Yes, they will flash, but since this is also the DRL circuit, whenever the DRLs are on, so will the mirrors.
Pin B1 feeds ther rear lamps, and since there is only one bulb, this is also the brake as well as the turn. So the mirors will come on when the brakes are applied. (See my remarks previously when I considered tapping into the rear wires...I forgot there is only one bulb there.)
Turn Signal(R) - dk. blue (F), dk. green (R) + BCM, black plug, pins A19, B2Same as for the left side
Now, if you wanted to tap into at the BCM, you can tap into connector C2, pins A6 (Lt. Blue) and A26 (Dark Blue). These are the same wires going to the cluster that they tell you to tap into behind the cluster. They are dedicated turn signal wires. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Why I would still connect to the cluster. To remove cluster, pull off the outer trim panel around the cluster, remove four screws, pull cluster back and there are the wires. To tap in at the BCM, requires pulling the BCM wires connector off, and fighting since they are tightly wrapped. I would guess, without trying yet, it is easier at the cluster. But if you prefer at the BCM, go for it.
However, you will have to add wiring to the harnesses that come with the mirrors. Even if you install the passenger harness (longest of the two) in the driver's side, I don't believe it will reach all the way to the right kick panel to the BCM. No problem, just some butt end connectors, but one more splice in the line to make.

[fourfourto]

I was just jokeing with the 1 hour time limit.All day job I assume.Might do it down the road Im saving your info for when the time comes.
It will be worth the trouble when its all done .

[deicustoms1]

Ok, whatever you found to be easiest for you. The wiring diagram I'm using says you can get a proper turn signal at those wires and it hasn't let me down yet, but I guess you'd know better than them. Anyways, a couple relays would solve the problem of them always being on. :P

[f5fstop]

From the GM wiring schemantics, component connector end views.
Left rear taillamp socket.
Pin A D-BU circuit 18 Left Rear Stop/Turn Lamp Supply Voltage
Pin B BN circuit 2509 Left Rear Park Lamp Supply Voltage
Pin G BK circuit 1450 Ground (two wires).

This dark blue wire goes directly to Splice S245, located under the sill molding. At this splice the dark blue wire is spliced to two yellow wires. One yellow goes to the trailer harness, the other goes to Pin B1 of the BCM. Since this circuit is called the brake/turn circuit, does it or does it not make sense that if you tap into this wire with the mirrors, you will have power to the mirros whenever the brakes as well as the turn signals are applied?
The BCM has total control over this circuit. It closes both circuit to apply the brakes upon input from the brake switch. If a turn signal is turned on, the BCM overrides the brake input to that side, and turns that particular circuit on/off to make it a flasher.
Front circuits work the same, except replace the word BRAKE with the word DRL and change the wire colors.
To say to add a few relays might make it work, but at this time I have not the time nor the care to figure this out. However, to wire in a few relays, when you can tap into the dedicated circuits that go directly to the I/P signal indicators, makes your reasoning ludicrous.
So, tap into those wires, add in a few thousand relays and go for it.
Not sure what wiring diagram you are using, but I'm referencing the actual GM wiring schematics. Can't say they are always correct, but, on this circuit, they are.

[deicustoms1]

Is there a reason you are getting so worked up about this? All I did was post the information I had available to me from DirectWire in an attempt to help you out. By the way I was serious when I said I guess you know better than them since I know you have GM schematics, I wasn't being sarcastic.

You do not need to explain yourself and your wiring schematics, I believe you. All I did was copy information I had from my wiring diagram to this thread because it sounded easier to do than to remove the cluster, and that's all.

The relay comment was a joke because I realized directwire must have been wrong (the never let me down comment was because I was suprised), and I was attempting to make my idea valid, but I guess that was missed.

Take it easy....

Yea I think I'll wait awhile for these fancy mirrors...

S.

[f5fstop]

Update...
Talked with the engineer at Muth, I seem not to be the only one who had a slight problem with the pivot ring.
They will be making some note in their procedures to make sure that ring is not still attached to the old mirror, and if so, switch it to the new mirror, prior to install.
They are also sending me a replacement for the mirror that broke AT NO COST.
They are actually a good company to work with.
Once, I finish up, I'll take some photos, of how to bypass the rubber sock between the door and the frame. This was an area that is next to impossible to do per their instructions, especially the passenger side.

From what I have learned, and what Muth has learned, will create a better set of instructions. They will never tell you to go on the outside of the rubber sock, but I will, and if you seal the areas where you come out of the sock and go into the grommet, you wlll have no water intrusion problem.

I should have the replacement mirror here in a few days. To connect the inside wiring is less than 1.2 hour, and that includes fishing the wires through the underside of the I/P to behind the cluster, and connecting the two grounds. To replace the mirrors while on the vehicle is about (this is a guess) two or three minutes per side (remember, they are already wired).