Transmission fluid?

[cmd]

looking for input on recommended tranny fluid to use, and if the filter is only available from gm or are there optional filters available on the market that are recommended. I understand that some members have noticed a differance in the performance of the transmission once performing the service. I have 45k on my 2003 h2, I checked the fluid and i believe it smells a bit on the burnt side.
Thanks

[f5fstop]

Your owner's manual probably recommends Dexron III, but the new Dexron VI, is the best and can be used to replace Dexron III. As for a filter, I never recommend just changing a filter, since 25-40 percent of the fluid remains in the trans and torque converter (depends on the size of the converter). I recommend a total trans back flush, but only with the Kent Moore machine that GM and other manufacturers use. I do not recommend the local oil change shop that uses a cheap back flush machine that is worthless.
Doesn't actually cost much more, but it will flush out all the old fluid, in the trans and the converter, and flush out contaminants, and fill with fresh fluid.
I had it done on my Vette, and it was $109.00; whereas a fluid change and filter was $70.00+.

[o2man98]

AMSOIL makes an excellent ATF that has been working great in GM transmissions. It is a full synthetic ATF that meets all the requirements for the H2 trans.

http://www.modernoils.com/ATF_Amsoil...hetic_ATF.html

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by o2man98

AMSOIL makes an excellent ATF that has been working great in GM transmissions. It is a full synthetic ATF that meets all the requirements for the H2 trans.

http://www.modernoils.com/ATF_Amsoil...hetic_ATF.html

Why does this appear to be an ad for Amsoil? The 4L60E does not require synthetic fluid.

[o2man98]

That is correct the 4L60E does not require synthetic but does need a Dexron-III fluid. 11 quarts for a full exchange to be accurate.

[f5fstop]

Actually, I would recommend Dexron VI, which is replacing Dexron III at all locations.

[o2man98]

Originally Posted by f5fstop

Actually, I would recommend Dexron VI, which is replacing Dexron III at all locations.

That is the fluid that supercedes the DEXIII but the DEXIII is what is needed at minimum.

[wilfred]

Originally Posted by cmd

looking for input on recommended tranny fluid to use, and if the filter is only available from gm or are there optional filters available on the market that are recommended. I understand that some members have noticed a differance in the performance of the transmission once performing the service. I have 45k on my 2003 h2, I checked the fluid and i believe it smells a bit on the burnt side.
Thanks

Yeap, I am one of those that had the transmission flushed by the dealer and definitely noticed the improvement. (And I had less than 20K on my '03 when I had it done.) I don't know what ATF they used but for around 100 bucks, it's well worth it. As stated above, only half of the fluid can be changed if you just drain and refill. So in order to do it right, a machine is necessary.

[cmd]

Thanks Guys, i was aiming towards synthetic, however anyone know what the difference in the dextron fluid change is ? can the pan be removed to be cleaned without disconnecting the exhaust. Im just thinkin that would possibly be sludge of some sort sitting in the pan.

[Sugardaddy]

Originally Posted by f5fstop

Actually, I would recommend Dexron VI, which is replacing Dexron III at all locations.

Did the company skip Dextron V and go right to Dextron VI?

[Klaus]

GM Rolls Out Dexron-VI
By Tim Sullivan

General Motors has unveiled Dexron-VI, a new automatic transmission fluid for 2006 model year cars and trucks equipped with Hydra-Matic transmissions. The new specification raises the bar for fluid performance and for qualification difficulty. With GM aiming to make Dexron-VI the fluid of choice for all of its cars and light trucks, the ATF market may be destined to become more complicated – and more expensive.

GM developed the trademarked fluid in conjunction with Afton Chemical Corp. and Petro-Canada Lubricants, and officials at all three companies described it as a significant advance beyond major existing specifications. Besides ratcheting up performance demands, the standard creates new hurdles expected to drive up licensing costs for additive and oil companies, including a requirement for fleet tests and insistence that new chemistries be compatible with those that are previously approved.

Announced April 1 and presented yesterday at a lubricants meeting during the SAE Congress in Detroit, the new spec is part of a trend of change for the ATF market. Performance requirements have risen steadily the past few years to accommodate transmission design changes as well as pushes by automakers for fluids to last longer and perform better.

GM introduced the Dexron-III(H) spec just two years ago, but decided it needed to upgrade again to accommodate the Hydra-Matic 6L80, its first six-speed automatic transmission. As far as the transmission fluid is concerned, the biggest change with the 6L80 is that it puts clutch interfaces in direct contact with each other, rather than using a buffer such as a freewheeler between them. Having direct contact improves the speed and efficiency of power handoffs between clutches, but it also requires greater precision to keep those interactions consistent.

“With this new transmission, we have to be much more precise in our lubricant performance,” Steven Kemp, engineering group manager for GM Powertrain’s Fuels and Lubricants Department in Pontiac, Mich., told Lube Report Monday. “Without that improvement, you could have inconsistent shifts, and that could potentially detract from customer satisfaction.”

GM, Afton and Petro-Canada sought to develop a fluid with a more consistent viscosity profile compared to Dexron-III(H); that would perform more consistently in extreme conditions; and that would degrade less over time. They achieved these improvements, officials said, by raising requirements for oxidative and shear stability, foam performance and protection against pitting.

GM claims that Dexron-VI delivers more than twice the durability and stability in friction tests than do existing fluids. Although the company is still gathering data, it expects this to lead to a drain interval extension of roughly the same order.

“The result [of the effort] is a new fluid that significantly outperforms existing fluids in every aspect,” said Roy Fewkes, driveline fluids group leader for GM Powertrain. “In fact, we have had to significantly extend the length of our durability tests to fully test the fluid’s capability.”

“In every parameter, this is a significant improvement over fluids that are already on the market,” John Sunne, Afton’s director of original equipment manufacturer liason in Southfield, Mich., told Lube Report. “Meeting all of the requirements was extremely difficult.”

GM said it incorporated fleet tests and the requirement for compatibility with other chemistries to further ensure product performance. But it also acknowledged the difficulty of these requirements.

“We need to make sure there is a consistent product [in the aftermarket], so we’ve set up these additional hurdles,” Kemp said. “[Gaining approvals] is not going to be a simple stroll through the park as has been the case with previous specifications.”

Observers agreed that Dexron-VI is tougher than existing ATF specifications, though some described it as an incremental step in ongoing market trends.

“It will require higher quality base stocks, and the fluid itself will have to be more shear stable,” said Craig Paterson, product manager with Lubrizol Corp.’s ATF segment in Wickliffe, Ohio. “We believe it will take a little bit longer to gain approval, due to the additional tests. There will be a definite increase in costs.”

Changes also have been made to the licensing program. Rather than licensing fluids directly, GM will license chemistries that meet the specification's requirements, leaving it to additive companies to issue sub-licenses for approved finished fluids. Afton, currently the only company with an approved chemistry, said it will not charge separate licensing fees. GM charges an annual fee of $3,000 per product under the old program.

Involvement in the spec appears to be a coup for Petro-Canada and Afton, which won contracts to be exclusive suppliers of base oil and additive chemistry, respectively, for fluid installed in new vehicles. (For factory fill, the fluid is referred to as RDL-3434.) GM began installing the new fluid at its Willow Run plant in Ypsilanti, Mich., April 4 and will convert other facilities in coming months. It also said Dexron-VI will be available through its authorized dealerships and service centers this summer.

The big question is how prevalent Dexron-VI will become in the service fill market, which trumps factory fill volumes. The fluid will become GM’s recommendation for service fill on all cars and light trucks, although not in time for owners manuals of some model year 2006 vehicles. Moreover, the automaker is already recommending Dexron-VI for service fill in existing vehicles, noting its compatibility with transmissions built before model year 2006. To encourage the switch, the company will cease to issue Dexron-III(H) licenses at the end of 2005, meaning all such licenses will expire by the end of 2006.

Some observers said it remains to be seen whether Dexron-VI becomes the fluid of choice for service fill for GM drivers. If the new fluid costs much more, they suggested, it could encourage continuing demand for Dexron-III products, even after they are no longer licensed.

If Dexron-VI does become a workhorse spec, it could complicate the ATF market in North America. Currently, a bit more than half of ATF sales by volume in the region are products that carry licenses for both Dexron-III and Ford’s specification, Mercon. According to the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association, ATF sales in the United States totaled 178.4 million gallons in 2003. Products carrying Dexon-III and Mercon licenses accounted for 96.6 million of those gallons. Observers speculated that Dexron-VI may break that link.

“This looks to me like something that is going to lead to further segmentation of the market,” said an official with an oil company, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_artic....cfm?x=b11,0,w

[Klaus]

Automatic Transmission Fluid Performance Requirements On the Rise

There is a significant trend in the automatic transmission fluid (ATF) market now. Performance requirements have risen steadily the past few years to accommodate not only the automakers? transmission design changes, but also their push for fluids to last longer and perform better.

One important example of this trend hit the market on April 1 this year. General Motors (GM) announced a new factory-fill ATF for all of its 2006 model-year cars and trucks equipped with Hydra-Matic transmissions. The new fluid will meet the Dexron-VI specification, which is a significant upgrade over the current Dexron-III spec.

This announcement caught many long-time industry observers by surprise. GM had only recently upgraded its Dexron-III spec from the ?G? level to the ?H? level. Now, all of a sudden, the H level will become obsolete by the end of 2006. Never before has the pace of ATF spec changes been so quick.

Many speculated that GM was developing a new generation of ATF specifically for its new six-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmissions, but the switch of GM?s entire factory-fill to a more expensive, higher performance fluid that was specially designed for six-speeds was unexpected. The factory-fill began in April with the new Hydra-Matic 6L80 transmission.

So, what does this mean for the oil change market? Most likely, this announcement is the straw that will break the back of a universal ATF. Most vehicles on U.S. highways today can get by with a standard Dexron-III/Mercon ATF. A lot of oil companies offer a multi-vehicle, or universal, ATF that will cover the standard Dexron-III and Mercon specs, as well as the Mercon V spec, and Chrysler ATF+3 and ATF+4.

However, the new GM spec will be impossible to combine with the Mercon requirements. The new GM ATF will specify a maximum viscosity of 6.4 cSt at 100? C, whereas the Ford Mercon and Mercon V specs call for a minimum viscosity of 6.8 cSt at 100? C. You can?t be less than 6.4 and greater than 6.8 at the same time!

It?s possible that future Ford specs may match GM more closely. Right now, Ford has a number of factory-fill ATFs: Mercon, Mercon V, Mercon SP and CVT fluid. It is working to simplify its system, and it may choose a lower viscosity ATF. Toyota has already gone lower with its new ATF, known as T-V, compared to its previous T-IV fluid.

The trend in ATF viscosity is to go as light as possible without sacrificing wear protection. One reason is that lower viscosity ATF is easier to pump in hydraulic circuits. However, the most important reason is that lower viscosity ATF will deliver better fuel economy - a key issue for OEMs trying to meet tight government fuel economy standards.

Another impact upon the installer market will be the price of the new ATF. Because of the more stringent ATF test specifications, the base oils and additives needed for Dexron-VI will be higher quality and higher cost than what is used in today?s Dexron-III fluids. In addition, there is only one additive supplier approved for Dexron-VI. The cost to run a GM qualification program could well be over a million dollars - a figure that will give pause to other additive suppliers who want to get official approval. Thus, with only one source of officially approved additive supply, you can almost certainly expect no price relief for the new GM fluid.

Why did GM insist on a new fluid? The company?s press release makes it clear that it is striving for superior transmission performance. That, in turn, should improve customer satisfaction and, most important for GM, cut down on warranty work. For example, the new Dexron-VI will have the following advantages compared to current Dexron-III:

• More consistent viscosity during service(that is, very little sheardown).
• More consistent shift performance, especially in extreme conditions.
• More than double the durability in friction characteristics.
• More fluid life by about 50 percent.

You can get one indication of the tighter spec limits by comparing the requirements that GM has placed on its cyclic shifting test. For the Dexron-III G spec, you had to achieve acceptable cycling test performance for 20,000 cycles. For Dexron-III H, the bar was raised to 32,000 cycles. And, for the new Dexron-VI, you have to perform well for 42,000 cycles.

Many other performance tests, such as ATF oxidation life, have similar increases in spec requirements. The GM oxidation life test is run in a 4L60 transmission operated continuously at 325? F. For the Dexron-III G spec, researchers run the test for 300 hours and the increase in oil acid number is limited to 3.25 or less. For Dexron-III H, researchers increase the test length to 450 hours, with the same limit on acid increase. With Dexron-VI, the test length is 450 hours, but the allowable acid number increase is 2.0 or less. This superior performance under high temperature conditions has allowed GM?s new ATF to be designed for drain intervals of 100,000 miles (normal service) or 50,000 miles (severe service).

Some have asked why GM didn?t call its new fluid Dexron-IV. A possible answer is that it wanted to reinforce the fact that the new ATF was specially made for six-speed transmissions. Another possibility is that GM wanted to leapfrog over Chrysler and Ford, whose latest generation fluids are known as ATF+4 and Mercon V, respectively.

For the time being, the ATF market will be stable. It will be at least a year before new GM vehicles will need ATF service. Also, the number of 2006 model-year vehicles on the road will be much smaller than the rest of the vehicle population.

It is not clear yet how many oil companies will be ready to supply Dexron-VI. They may take a wait-and-see attitude before rushing into production of a fluid with limited sales. The good news is that Dexron-VI will be backwards compatible for all previous GM transmissions that required Dexron-III or II. That means that you can install Dexron-VI in any GM transmission and it will work.

http://www.noln.net/columns/7-05/columns/chevtex.htm

[tomp]

Phil, when switching over to SYN ATF, I am guessing they can use the SYN ATF you supplied them to flush out the old dino ATF out? Does this require an extra amount of oil for you to supply them with, over and above the required 11-14 qts that it takes to completely fill the tranny?

[tomp]

I kinda saw this coming, thus the reason I asked Thanks Bud...

[f5fstop]

Not sure if you will benefit from using syn trans fluid over the new DVI fluid. Not sure how syn fluid is in an Hummer, but many I know who tried it in auto vettes, flushed it out and went back to DIII. Shifts seemed sloppy. Again, this is for experience with Vettes, not H2s and the shifting is different.