Front leveling = Rear sagging???

[Ipedog]

Hey all -

In this thread people have been talking about leveling the H3 and getting lift from the front via a t-bar crank. Way back when people were talking about how they didn't like the "stink-bug" look that the stock set up had.

Just like many of you, I have done a t-bar crank (2.5 turns) and am happy with the results. I may go another full turn soon for more clearance up front. I don't really care if the thing "looks" level. What I care about is ground clearance.

The t-bar crank can be done to give you an additional inch or more of clearance and is simple and esentially free. No one seems to be coming out with suspension lifts and when they do they are going to be big big money.
Soooo, let me ask you this: What about shackle extensions for the rear? The rear of the truck already has shackles stock:



Why not get, or fabricate some, that are longer? This could give us an inch or more of rear lift for a relatively small investment.

Am I barking up the wrong tree? Is this something that we have discussed before and dismissed? I did a search but didn't find much of anything. So what are your thought folks? What am I missing? Should we our shouldn't we? Inquiring minds want to know!

[HummBebe]

Might as well do a spring-over conversion yes??

[Sewie]

Yeah, the clearance issues in the back are mostly from the shackles themselves.

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

Might as well do a spring-over conversion yes??

I guess that could be an option.

Unless I'm way off wouldn't new shackles, and maybe new shocks, installed be about 300-500 dollars and a spring over conversion about 3 to 5 thousand dollars?!

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by Sewie

Yeah, the clearance issues in the back are mostly from the shackles themselves.

Hmmm... I hadn't noticed that here on the East coast. Maybe with the BIG slabs in Moab and the Rubicon...

[Sewie]

Originally Posted by Ipedog

Hmmm... I hadn't noticed that here on the East coast. Maybe with the BIG slabs in Moab and the Rubicon...

The hangers in front of the rear wheels are the real problem. We were hitting those all weekend.

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by Sewie

The hangers in front of the rear wheels are the real problem. We were hitting those all weekend.

Yeah... I've got LOTS of scars on them.

I just re-viewed Bully13's Rubi 2006 vid to try to see where you were getting hung up in the a$$ end. It looks like when you were coming down off the slabs you were coming down onto the leaf springs, muffler, trailer hitch, and the bumper itself. Currently the shackles are above the line of the bumper so I can't see how they would be a big issue.

Oh, how did your mufflers survive coming down off the slabs with all the vehicle weight on them?

[Sewie]

The mufflers never hit AFAIK. Coming down some of those big ledges we would just ride down on the bumper / hitch.

The hangers would get caught up on rocks, almost like high-centering. We would have to get out and stack rocks in order to get enough clearance to get the rear tire up on the rock. Or just drag the hanger.

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by Sewie

The hangers would get caught up on rocks, almost like high-centering. We would have to get out and stack rocks in order to get enough clearance to get the rear tire up on the rock. Or just drag the hanger.

You're talking about the front attachment point for the leaf spring, not the shackle way in back, right?

If you had longer shackles that would in turn raise the entire back half of the truck. Ie: a 3 inch longer shackle would hive you 1.5" to 2.5" more ground clearance at the hanger (I'm guessing here, I don't know the exact math). Do you see the shackle hanging down beneath the rear bumper being an issue that would be worse than the ground clearance you gained?

[Sewie]

I didn't get any intentional pics of us getting hung up but this one kind of gives you an idea of what was happening.



You can see the scrape marks on the big rock under the drivers door where the hangers were hitting before we could get a tire up.

[Sewie]

Originally Posted by Ipedog

You're talking about the front attachment point for the leaf spring, not the shackle way in back, right? Yes.

If you had longer shackles that would in turn raise the entire back half of the truck. Ie: a 3 inch longer shackle would hive you 1.5" to 2.5" more ground clearance at the hanger (I'm guessing here, I don't know the exact math). Do you see the shackle hanging down beneath the rear bumper being an issue that would be worse than the ground clearance you gained?

No. It's the same as the pumpkin. The only thing that will give you more clearance at the hanger is bigger tires.

[Ipedog]

Edit...

I'm not sure I agree with you Sewie. By adding the shackle aren't you forcing the axel away from the body of the vehicle? In essence lifting the hangers away from the ground.

I've been doing some research and it seems that the Colorado/Canyon people (Who have LOTS of lifts available ) do shackles to do the rear lift and a t-bar crank in the front. Typically this seems to yeild about 2 inches of lift on the cheap.

This sort of lift WOULD get the front hanger up away from the rocks.

Here is a pic of a Fabtech 3.5" Spindle/Shackle lift for the colorado/canyon. Only $600 too...

[Sewie]

Well, I'm definitely no expert. Maybe some folks with more knowledge can give some input here.

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by Sewie

Well, I'm definitely no expert. Maybe some folks with more knowledge can give some input here.

Hell, neither am I LOL. I'm just trying to envision the mechanics of this whole thing and try to get us farther into the air in a timely manner and without having to sell off our children!

Just so that we're on the same sheet of music... The part that you're refering to as the hanger is this, right?:




No, its all good Sewie. For all I know I am totally way out in left field talking out my butt. Hopefully someone with some knowledge will chime in.

This is the way I'm figuring it (put on your thinking caps ):

Call the connection of the leaf spring at the hanger "A"
The connection of the axel to the leaf spring "B"
and the connection to the leaf spring at the shackle "C"

Assume that the leaf spring always returns to its basic shape

A is a fixed point and cannot move in relationship to the body of the vehicle
B is a fixed height in relationship to the ground

If C is forced down away from the truck with a longer shackle and B is a constant, fixed distance above the ground, AND the leaf spring retains its basic shape

The result is point A must be forced higher into the air. This is because if point C is pushed down then point A must go up because point B is a constant.

The end result is a lift.

Oh well... I'm probably talking out of my butt. ;-p

[HummBebe]

so we were hanging up on our hangers???

Ipe, you are doing great so far, but I need visuals of A, B and C.....prease

[Sewie]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

so we were hanging up on our hangers???

Among other things.

That and the UCP were the two biggest clearance issues.

[HummBebe]

Ok, so the guys that kept saying we were hanging up on our shackles really meant we were hanging up on our hangers???

Just don't want to be confused....thanks.

[Sewie]

I call 'em hangers. I'm probably wrong.

But yes, that's what was hitting most of the time. Have you taken a look under your truck yet?

[HummBebe]

Ahm too askeered

[Ipedog]

Originally Posted by HummBebe

so we were hanging up on our hangers???

Ipe, you are doing great so far, but I need visuals of A, B and C.....prease

Okay Bebe's

In this pic you see what I'm calling the hanger. Its triangular in shape and welded to the frame. Call this point A



In these next two pics you see where the rear axel is attached to the leaf spring. Where the upside down U shaped bolts attach the leaf spring to the axel is point B

In this pic you can see the hanger A in the left of the pic.



In the this pic you can see the shackle C in the right of the pic.




In this pic you see the OEM shackle. Its about 2.3 to 3" long and is where the leaf spring attaches at end (bumper) of the truck. Call this point C


Does this make it any clearer Bebe?