Oh, the Humanity (UPDATED WITH TEST DRIVE RESULTS)

[TimW]

New guy intro...Hi, my name is Tim, and I am confused....

Anyway, have a 1992 4 Runer 3.0 V-6 w/195,000 mi on it. Great condition, works very well off-road (to the extent I've gone offroad for hunting, camping and such). This was before they made the 4 Runner a vehicle for soccer moms.

Well, am at the point where I may need to dump a couple grand into getting the motor back up to 100%, but it might be less since I have only a general idea of what's wrong (supposed compression leak, but not burning oil and no exhaust smoke). Thought about swapping the 3.0 for the 3.4L V-6, but that's not easily doable.

So, what happens? The H3 appears. Have seen 2 in the Wild here in Glendale AZ. Looks nice. Read a lot here, and a lot of reviews. I'll likely rent one from Avis to try it out.

So, what's the dilemma you say?

Well, I want a good off-road vehicle. No question teh H3 seems to fit that bill, and then some. Though my 4Runner is good there, too.

So, that leaves "how does it act around company?" question. Seems the handling on the H3 is what one would expect from an SUV. But what does have me concerned is the apparent underpowered drivetrain.

Anyone who's owned the 3.0L V-6 in a 4 Runner knows what that is. Sure, lots of low end torque, but it can't get out of its own way to save anyone's life.

Passing another car is something that needs to be scheduled a couple days in advance, and unless you get a good running start and there's nobody else in teh 4 Runner, trying to go up the grade from Phoenix to Sunset Point (I-17 in Arizona) is a 55-60mph affair.

Woe unto He Who Gets Caught Behind a Semi and must Decelerate to 45, For He Shall Not Get Back Up to Speed Anytime Soon!

Mileage is about the same...I get 12mpg around town, MAYBE 17-18 on the highway with a tailwind.

The plus for the 4Runner is the back seat folds completely flat, allowing our dog a nice cozy area to rest when the remainder of the cargo area is filled with stuff. The H3's rear area doesn't seem to do this.

Anyone who's owned a Second Gen 4 Runner AND an H3, can you give me an idea of the difference in the cargo area?

Any of you Phoenix-area H3 owners be willing to meet me and let me paw your vehicle? Maybe take me for a ride? I'll buy you a burger or something!!

Now, for the kicker...we were stupid when we had our home built and didn't get the extended garage...yeah, what did I know...our first house, OK? Anyway, I ahve about 200-203" TOTAL length for the vehicle to fit in the garage, else it sits in the driveway, which isn't something I want to do.

So...spend a couple grand on fixing up the 4 Runner, or $30,000+ on an H3?

Then...where to get it. Lund Hummer is close...but I've heard mixed things about them. I'd be willing to do a bit of driving, but not more than say 1-2 days' worth.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[TimW]

New guy intro...Hi, my name is Tim, and I am confused....

Anyway, have a 1992 4 Runer 3.0 V-6 w/195,000 mi on it. Great condition, works very well off-road (to the extent I've gone offroad for hunting, camping and such). This was before they made the 4 Runner a vehicle for soccer moms.

Well, am at the point where I may need to dump a couple grand into getting the motor back up to 100%, but it might be less since I have only a general idea of what's wrong (supposed compression leak, but not burning oil and no exhaust smoke). Thought about swapping the 3.0 for the 3.4L V-6, but that's not easily doable.

So, what happens? The H3 appears. Have seen 2 in the Wild here in Glendale AZ. Looks nice. Read a lot here, and a lot of reviews. I'll likely rent one from Avis to try it out.

So, what's the dilemma you say?

Well, I want a good off-road vehicle. No question teh H3 seems to fit that bill, and then some. Though my 4Runner is good there, too.

So, that leaves "how does it act around company?" question. Seems the handling on the H3 is what one would expect from an SUV. But what does have me concerned is the apparent underpowered drivetrain.

Anyone who's owned the 3.0L V-6 in a 4 Runner knows what that is. Sure, lots of low end torque, but it can't get out of its own way to save anyone's life.

Passing another car is something that needs to be scheduled a couple days in advance, and unless you get a good running start and there's nobody else in teh 4 Runner, trying to go up the grade from Phoenix to Sunset Point (I-17 in Arizona) is a 55-60mph affair.

Woe unto He Who Gets Caught Behind a Semi and must Decelerate to 45, For He Shall Not Get Back Up to Speed Anytime Soon!

Mileage is about the same...I get 12mpg around town, MAYBE 17-18 on the highway with a tailwind.

The plus for the 4Runner is the back seat folds completely flat, allowing our dog a nice cozy area to rest when the remainder of the cargo area is filled with stuff. The H3's rear area doesn't seem to do this.

Anyone who's owned a Second Gen 4 Runner AND an H3, can you give me an idea of the difference in the cargo area?

Any of you Phoenix-area H3 owners be willing to meet me and let me paw your vehicle? Maybe take me for a ride? I'll buy you a burger or something!!

Now, for the kicker...we were stupid when we had our home built and didn't get the extended garage...yeah, what did I know...our first house, OK? Anyway, I ahve about 200-203" TOTAL length for the vehicle to fit in the garage, else it sits in the driveway, which isn't something I want to do.

So...spend a couple grand on fixing up the 4 Runner, or $30,000+ on an H3?

Then...where to get it. Lund Hummer is close...but I've heard mixed things about them. I'd be willing to do a bit of driving, but not more than say 1-2 days' worth.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[H3 Buyer to be?]

I am in PHX and I have a deposit at Lund for a Boulder Gray Cashmere leather Lux pack with sunroof, XM and nothing else. They will charge sticker and no more and the H will be here the 26th - if you want it let me know I will tell them to hold the truck for you. I could not wait, and I wanted to use the GMS discount, so I had one driven to me here in PHX. I should say am having one driven here, it is 11:51 am, and the guy is between PHX and TUC! Can't hardly wait to actually drive one...

[TimW]

Thanks, that's a very nice offer of you!

If I got an H3 I think it'd be the Adventure package with perhaps the Monsoon stereo if available. I'm loath to pay for the full-on Luxury package just to get the stereo. My 4Runner has leather seats and they're nice, but hot.

After the first scratch (always the toughest), I do plan on taking this thing off-road (of course, the "assuming I get one" applies). I have no fear of getting vehicles dirty. Trail pinstriping, well, rather not, but "stuff" happens.

Once you'd had a chance to get to know your new girlfriend, I'd love to take a gander at it....

Thanks again for the offer...i am just not prepared to buy right now...and if I do, the first mod to the truck is disconnecting that blasted OnStar Spy System.

[TimW]

What is the GMS discount?

I know they're not allowing the "GM Employee" discount that nearly every other vehicle has on it...I emailed Lund and their reply was "it doesn't apply to 2006 vehicles."

My answer.."I wasn't aware the H3 is a 2006, since we're only 4 days into JUNE of 2005."

Sometimes, politeness just isn't my bag...

[H3 Buyer to be?]

Gm Supplier Discount, I qualified for it because of where I work. It saved me about 10% off sticker price, better than Legends that wanted $2200 above sticker for "paint protection" (an item that is not even real), and for window tint, and pinstriping... LOL Friggin dealers.

[Thai]

Why not buy another 4runner?? Or other choices:

Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Nissan Xterra

Or if you wait a little, then get the new Toyota FJ.

[hispeed6]

Hi Tim, welcome to the club from somebody who quit lurking just last night.

I had a '95 4Runner with a 5 speed when I lived in PHX. It was a good truck but you're right, you could time that thing 0-60 with a sundial. And when we would go to San Diego over the mountains using 3rd gear on the uphills became a reality.

I test drove an auto equipped H3 this week and I'd put the accelleration above that of the 4runner and slightly beneath my 4.0 jeep wrangler 5 speed. It's tolerable but don't count on winning the race to the next light. Best bet would be go to Avis and rent one for a day to see if you're okay with the accelleration. Better to spend $100 to know for sure than have 5 years of payments.

For me it was good enough. I pick mine up next Wednesday in Columbus OH when I get back from this work trip!

Cheers,

hispeed6

[TimW]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thai:
Why not buy another 4runner?? Or other choices:

Jeep Rubicon Unlimited
Nissan Xterra

Or if you wait a little, then get the new Toyota FJ. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've not been impressed with teh Xterra at all, either in looks or in off-road performance.

A new 4 Runner would be OK, but a) I don't want to spend mi-$40,000 for one and b) they've gone "soft". Anyone who's owned an old 4 Runner understands...IMO they're not the vehicle they used to be.

Rubicon isn't big enough in the passenger/cargo area.

The FJ looks interesting, however it's nearly a foot shorter than the 4Runner, which means that cargo space is lopped off. That's going in the wrong direction from what I want to accomplish.

I am starting to think that there is no perfect solution.

[TimW]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hispeed6:
I had a '95 4Runner with a 5 speed when I lived in PHX. It was a good truck but you're right, you could time that thing 0-60 with a sundial. And when we would go to San Diego over the mountains using 3rd gear on the uphills became a reality.

I test drove an auto equipped H3 this week and I'd put the accelleration above that of the 4runner and slightly beneath my 4.0 jeep wrangler 5 speed. It's tolerable but don't count on winning the race to the next light. Best bet would be go to Avis and rent one for a day to see if you're okay with the accelleration. Better to spend $100 to know for sure than have 5 years of payments.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What engine did you have in your '95? Would that have been the 3.4L V-6 or...?

The Avis thing is looking more and more likely for the very reason you mention.

If there had been an easy way to put a (significantly) larger engine in the 4 Runner w/o major modifications, that'd be the way I'd likely go. But there isn't.

Now..as for the cargo area...how would you compare it with the 4 Runner?

[TimW]

OK....I had an opportunity to take one for a spin down the freeway today (I-17) for about 8 miles or so. Brief encounter, to be sure, but since this was a BIG TREAT, beggars cannot be choosers. Big thanks to the unnamed individual who let me gawk, and then drive, his/her H3.

Ok...impressions:

RIDE. It rides MUCH smoother than my 4 Runner, even with the Off-Road Suspension. My 4 Runner rides like, well, a truck. For whatever reason, that seems to turn off all the car mags, save for the real truck folks. The H3's ride is like a nice nice truck.

ACCELERATION. Much better than I'd anticipated. Overall, a bit better than my 4Runner, which is nice, but not like my neighbor's F-150 V-8, which I wasn't expecting it to be. Reasonably good get-up-and-go, but I can see how someone who has been behind the wheel of trucks with V-8 or large V-6's could be disappointed.

VISIBILITY. This would take some getting used to. My 4 Runner has big windows and lots of them...like being in a fishbowl at times. The H3 is its antithesis in this area. Nothing one can't get used to with some time. However, they put the rearview mirror SMACK DAB IN THE MIDDLE of the front windshield, so you're bobbing and weaving to make sure there are no cars or pedestrians right in front. I think a great first modification would be one that allowed that to be moved closer to the roof.

DRIVABILITY. Other than the mirror issue, it wasn't bad at all. The seats (leather) were nice and supportive. The lack of a telescoping steering wheel isn't an issue for me, since I've never had one. Someone mentioned the difficulty getting their hand down to the driver seat adjustment with teh door closed. It's true, and I have girly-man-sized hands. I didn't find any issue with the foot pedals...I wear size 10 shoes.

CARGO. I have to take some measurements against my 4 Runner, but I don't think the cargo area is any bigger, since the rear wheel-wells cut into the cargo area. The rear seat does NOT fold completely flat, and even if it did, it would sit ABOVE the cargo area floor. STUPID in my opinion. My 4 Runner's rear seats fold completely flat and level with the rear cargo area, making a nice place for....stuff....or our 4-legged child, Abby the Wonderdog. The rear of the H3 will be a challenge in this regard.

RESULT. I will be renting one from Avis very soon for a weekend to be able to get a longer overall impression. But so far, the good outweighs the bad. This won't be the vehicle for everyone, but it will be a nice one for some.

Thanks again Unnamed Individual, for letting me take a gander at your truck.

[GimmieH3]

Nice review, sounds like you had a good time. Are you going to ditch the Toyota and get an H3?

[TimW]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GimmieH3:
Nice review, sounds like you had a good time. Are you going to ditch the Toyota and get an H3? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's tempting.

Here's an update on the cargo area. I took measurements of my 4Runner. The Length and height on the H3 beat the 4 Runner by a mere few inches. However, in width from side-panel to side-panel, the 4 Runner was TEN inches wider inside the vehicle, even though the H3 is wider than the 4Runner. This is certainly a Hummer Bummer.

H3
69.7 length
42.1 wide
37.0 height

1992 4Runner
66 length
52 wide
31 height

[Thai]

I think that you're wanting the new 4runner. You want off-road ability + cargo carrying capacity + good acceleration. The only way you can get this combo is by buying a more mainstream vehicle...or a truck.

If you're willing to get a truck, then i would recommend taking a look at the Dodge PowerWagon. It's a huge truck with full lockers and trick front axle. It's expensive though...and you may want to wait for the HEMI in that thing. Or if you want something smaller, then get the Toyota Tacoma with TRD package (rear locker + bilsteins).

BTW, a new 4runner can cost anywhere between $28K to $40K.

[aggiehummer...er]

With seats down, the H3 has 55.7 cubic feet of cargo space, for the record. Not sure what the new 4Runners have.

[Thai]

The 4runner with rear seats down is about 75-79 cu ft.

I forgot to mention in my previous post...over severe terrain, the H3 is superior to 4runner due to awesome crawl ratio and rear locker. But, if you don't need this much capability, then the 4runner is a better choice for your needs.

[TimW]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Thai:
I think that you're wanting the new 4runner. You want off-road ability + cargo carrying capacity + good acceleration.

BTW, a new 4runner can cost anywhere between $28K to $40K. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually don't want the new 4 Runner based on its looks....it's "soft" compared to the second generation 4Runners. Also, the approach angle on my 4 Runner is a smidge less than 38 degrees, which is close to the H3 (and assuming I used my compass' inclinator correctly). The departure angle is about 30 degrees because of the trailer hitch. Less than the H3.

The acceleration of the H3 was better than my 4 Runner....which is fine. I don't drag race, so that's not a big deal.

I will internally debate this forever, so y'all can go back to ignoring the crazy man.