Tires question after moab carnage???

[Alan06SUT]

I have noticed is that rigs w/ larger tires and even slightly diffrent wheel offsets seem to break more tie rods that 100% stock rigs; and, I have yet to witness a rocky trail where a rig w/ stock BFG's did not make it through where one w/ another type of mud terrain or 37's did. The execption is in Mud. the bigger, mud patten treads definatley work better there.
I was thinking about getting 37" BFG mud terrains, but after reding about the moad carnage, will they enhance my off roading capability by giving better ground clearance and grip in mud, or will they hurt me by potentially breaking parts on the trail?

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by Alan06SUT:
I have noticed is that rigs w/ larger tires and even slightly diffrent wheel offsets seem to break more tie rods that 100% stock rigs; and, I have yet to witness a rocky trail where a rig w/ stock BFG's did not make it through where one w/ another type of mud terrain or 37's did. The execption is in Mud. the bigger, mud patten treads definatley work better there.
I was thinking about getting 37" BFG mud terrains, but after reding about the moad carnage, will they enhance my off roading capability by giving better ground clearance and grip in mud, or will they hurt me by potentially breaking parts on the trail?

I believe both rigs that bent up the tie rods are running 35s. I know one of them was completely stock. The other has different tires from stock but I think they are still 35s, I think.

[CO Hummer]

I ran my original, balding, stock BFGs at Moab last week and have for the last 6 trips. I've had no tie rod issues. I've debated for a long time about going to 37s. I've decided I'm going to do it to offset the clearance I've lost with my new underbody protection. That one inch makes a difference. I'm also going to go with (I think) the BFG MTs. I was skeptical about the MTs since the ATs work so well. However, I've seen so many people crawl rocks, walls, and everything else with the MTs that I'm ready to give them a try.

I do think that keeping everything "stock" (except tie rods) is the way to mimimize damage/stress. The H3s that busted diffs in Moab had larger-than-stock tires. That said, it's not keeping me from going to 37s. I don't think it's going to be significantly more risky to do that, but I'm getting the Fabtech tie rods to compensate.

[MarineHawk]

As soon as you get the Fabtch tie rods, you're going to blow both diffs and your transfer case coming out of the driveway.

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by Alan06SUT:
I have noticed is that rigs w/ larger tires and even slightly diffrent wheel offsets seem to break more tie rods that 100% stock rigs; and, I have yet to witness a rocky trail where a rig w/ stock BFG's did not make it through where one w/ another type of mud terrain or 37's did. The execption is in Mud. the bigger, mud patten treads definatley work better there.
I was thinking about getting 37" BFG mud terrains, but after reding about the moad carnage, will they enhance my off roading capability by giving better ground clearance and grip in mud, or will they hurt me by potentially breaking parts on the trail?

Alan (nice name - one of my favorite people has the same):
I love my 37s, but I wouldn't have them without the HD tie rods. Also, I actually have been getting better gas mileage at highway speeds - probably because it acts like a higher gear. Yet, in low range, I have more torque than I know what to do with. I cranked my t-bars up one inch. With that and the 37s, I have more than 12 inches of clearance under the front stock UCP. I also added the Cognito supports for extra insurance and stability. I actually like the way it rides now better than stock. Someone else would be more qualified than me on this subject, but with the extra UCP wieght up front (and especially if you have a winch too) cranking the t-bars a little probably isn't a bad idea, and might be a good idea, to support the extra weight.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by CO Hummer:
I ran my original, balding, stock BFGs at Moab last week and have for the last 6 trips. I've had no tie rod issues. I've debated for a long time about going to 37s. I've decided I'm going to do it to offset the clearance I've lost with my new underbody protection. That one inch makes a difference. I'm also going to go with (I think) the BFG MTs. I was skeptical about the MTs since the ATs work so well. However, I've seen so many people crawl rocks, walls, and everything else with the MTs that I'm ready to give them a try.

I do think that keeping everything "stock" (except tie rods) is the way to mimimize damage/stress. The H3s that busted diffs in Moab had larger-than-stock tires. That said, it's not keeping me from going to 37s. I don't think it's going to be significantly more risky to do that, but I'm getting the Fabtech tie rods to compensate.

I'm doubting the tires had a tremendous amount to do with the H3's diffs. It's likely the same would have occured with stockers with good traction the way it sounds like it occured.

The picture I saw of the H3 diff backs up the descriptions. A few teeth are missing off the ring gear which makes it appear that the truck was stationary and trying to move it's weight. The only extra thing that the 35s were providing for it at that time was a better contact patch.

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CO Hummer:
I ran my original, balding, stock BFGs at Moab last week and have for the last 6 trips. I've had no tie rod issues. I've debated for a long time about going to 37s. I've decided I'm going to do it to offset the clearance I've lost with my new underbody protection. That one inch makes a difference. I'm also going to go with (I think) the BFG MTs. I was skeptical about the MTs since the ATs work so well. However, I've seen so many people crawl rocks, walls, and everything else with the MTs that I'm ready to give them a try.

I do think that keeping everything "stock" (except tie rods) is the way to mimimize damage/stress. The H3s that busted diffs in Moab had larger-than-stock tires. That said, it's not keeping me from going to 37s. I don't think it's going to be significantly more risky to do that, but I'm getting the Fabtech tie rods to compensate.

I'm doubting the tires had a tremendous amount to do with the H3's diffs. It's likely the same would have occured with stockers with good traction the way it sounds like it occured.

The picture I saw of the H3 diff backs up the descriptions. A few teeth are missing off the ring gear which makes it appear that the truck was stationary and trying to move it's weight. The only extra thing that the 35s were providing for it at that time was a better contact patch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Para:
So what makes the teeth fail in such a circumstance? Is is it simply gear teeth that aren't strong/big enough or something else? I.e., what could be changed to prevent this in the future?

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by MarineHawk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CO Hummer:
I ran my original, balding, stock BFGs at Moab last week and have for the last 6 trips. I've had no tie rod issues. I've debated for a long time about going to 37s. I've decided I'm going to do it to offset the clearance I've lost with my new underbody protection. That one inch makes a difference. I'm also going to go with (I think) the BFG MTs. I was skeptical about the MTs since the ATs work so well. However, I've seen so many people crawl rocks, walls, and everything else with the MTs that I'm ready to give them a try.

I do think that keeping everything "stock" (except tie rods) is the way to mimimize damage/stress. The H3s that busted diffs in Moab had larger-than-stock tires. That said, it's not keeping me from going to 37s. I don't think it's going to be significantly more risky to do that, but I'm getting the Fabtech tie rods to compensate.

I'm doubting the tires had a tremendous amount to do with the H3's diffs. It's likely the same would have occured with stockers with good traction the way it sounds like it occured.

The picture I saw of the H3 diff backs up the descriptions. A few teeth are missing off the ring gear which makes it appear that the truck was stationary and trying to move it's weight. The only extra thing that the 35s were providing for it at that time was a better contact patch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Para:
So what makes the teeth fail in such a circumstance? Is is it simply gear teeth that aren't strong/big enough or something else? I.e., what could be changed to prevent this in the future? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I have no idea. I am purely speculating. It could be that the gears are not being set right on some of the trucks. Such as being too shallow and not getting enough bite. Or it could be that the ring is so small that only 2 teeth are in any contact with the pinion when there might usually be 3 or something. Maybe it's cheap gears.

Coincidences scare the sh!t out of me. I don't like them at all and try to hunt them down and cut them up into tiny little pieces. I know the spot that this occured and heard the description of what happened when it happened and then to have 2 happen at the same time just bugs me a little.

Probably someone that does this sort of stuff for a living could offer more help.

[MarineHawk]

Sounds like you might be on the right track. I'm just hoping that it's something simple like incorrectly set or cheap gears that would be easy to fix.

[dochummer]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alan06SUT:
I have noticed is that rigs w/ larger tires and even slightly diffrent wheel offsets seem to break more tie rods that 100% stock rigs; and, I have yet to witness a rocky trail where a rig w/ stock BFG's did not make it through where one w/ another type of mud terrain or 37's did. The execption is in Mud. the bigger, mud patten treads definatley work better there.
I was thinking about getting 37" BFG mud terrains, but after reding about the moad carnage, will they enhance my off roading capability by giving better ground clearance and grip in mud, or will they hurt me by potentially breaking parts on the trail?

I believe both rigs that bent up the tie rods are running 35s. I know one of them was completely stock. The other has different tires from stock but I think they are still 35s, I think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Note, one the of the H2's also had different shocks...softer from what I hear...

[MarineHawk]

As per Paragon, easy fix?:
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/t...5/m/5431030081

[timgco]

...My 2 cents:

Honestly the tierod issue MOSTLY comes down to driver (unless there is something wrong in the front end) I ran 37" MT's on my SUT with stock tierods through Golden Spike. I didn't bend or break them. I have never broken a tierod yet. I also don't push my truck as hard as others though. (I skip some of the hardcore stuff).

I am now running 35's on 18's. I have added the FT tierods for extra insurance and would recomend them to anyone who plans to put their rigs into extreme trails.

I also think it's important to upgrade your stock steering stabilzer when running stock or larger tires off road. That will help with the additional stress put into your steering components (if nothing else it will aid in your steering efforts and you will feel less at the steering wheel).

Alan, per your question on the stock BFG's. You are correct. Those tires are great! The only disadvatage is in the deeper mud or clay. I can tell you from experience that the MT's suck in the snow vs the AT's though. But everywhere else, I loved them. If you buy new rims and go with the 37's, make sure your offset, backspacing and all that good stuff is correct before you spend that hard earned cash. Good luck,
Tim.

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by PhilD:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MarineHawk:
As per Paragon, easy fix?:
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/t...5/m/5431030081

Great idea, put some 5.13's in there, deliver loads of torque to the wheels and bust everything else. But that's okay, because you'll have a trailer with you, as you won't be able to drive above 60 mph on the highway </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are there just any stonger after-market 4.10:1 diffs?

[MarineHawk]

Originally posted by Alec W:
When I first got the MTs I didn’t like them and thought the stock AT were better.

But… for some reason now I really like the MTs maybe they are better slightly warn or I have just gotten used to them? Anyhow they look really cool

Ultimately for what I do I doubt there is any difference and as far as mud, H2s are too heavy (plus I hate cleaning up).

The number of people who wheel hard with HD tie-rods is fairly large now and I know of only one issue and that was on Ken’s monster H2. On the flip side I must have seen literally 25+ stock tie-rods bend/snap over the last 3 years.

The numbers speak for themselves IMO.

And, as Phil pointed out in another post, he hasn't seen driveline problems after installing HD tie rods; they occur after installing lifts, and front lockers, etc ...

[Alan06SUT]

I agree with the driver comments.

I.E if your wheel won't turn one way, there is probably a big rock there, back up and take a new line rather than forcing the wheel into the rock and squishing your tierod!Rocks dont give like GM tie rods do.....

I want to go to moab next year. I want to make it there in comfort.... from Atlanta, wheel all of the trails H2's can do, and make it back with as few incidents as possible. If the stock BFG's will do all of the moab stuff, I'm leaning toward just keeping them rather than moving up to 37's. But, from the repiles it seems like 37's w/ FT tie rods will be fine as well, plus I will look cooler and mud better! Hmmmmm

[Arizona Hummerboy]

I agree with the driver comments.

When I was at the Hummer Driving Academy I ask about breaking the tie rods. I was told that what they are seeing are the one's that are runing the bigger tires and are pushing there trucks hard are the ones breaking there tie rods and other parts on there trucks.

What they told me at the Academy is if your up against something and the wheel won't turn either way, don't force your truck over it, back up and take a new line on it.

I am runing the Stock BFG/AT on my H2 and I do wheel a lot in it and I have not had any problems with breaking any thing on the truck while wheeling it.